Hey all,
I have been a member here for a short time (Less than six months) and I enjoy reading the discussion threads and seeing everyone’s great project pictures. I have only recently been dragged into the woodworking realm and I am finding that it is my new passion. I started off with my first project a bit larger than most would tackle. I am not sure you can really call it a wood working project in the classical sense but it did allow me outfit my new shop with a new table saw, band saw, planer, drill press, air compressor…….etc, you get the picture.
A year ago my wife asked me if we could build a barn on our property so that she could board her horses close to home. She wanted to do a 3-sided run in shed that would give the horses some shelter in the cold winter wind up here in New England. I would have none of it…….I gave her the “if we are doing it, we are doing it right” speach, and she finally gave in.
So I proceeded to clear the land, saving the larger trees to be sawed into timbers so that I could build my first timber frame structure. Mind you I have never done this before, and I am known for the “Go big or go home” attitude. I have gained a huge amount of respect and admiration for the old timers and they way they used to do things. So to make a long story short, here are some pictures of my first woodworking project (Still a work in process).
All joints are mortise and tenon and the only steel in the structure so far are the nails that hold the tounge and groove flooring on. Let me know what you think.
Replies
Curly:
"I am known for the "Go big or go home" attitude" - You don't say! :-)
Now that's a first project! It looks amazing. I tend to do the same. Sort of back myself into a corner in the basement so I have no choice but to finish the project.
My very first wood working project is a kitchen that started last year; here are the steps so far:
1. Buy and read books
2. Enroll in woodworking class
3. Build workshop in back yard
4. Buy and read more books
6. Buy equipment
7. Tune and adjust equipment
7. Learn how to use equipment
8. Buy lumber
9. Build practice set of drawers for work shop
10. Start building kitchen.
We have been w/o a sink for 7 months but that will come to end in two weeks.
It has been an amazing journey, made all the more pleasurable by the folks here on Knots.
Congratulations.
Hastings
What a beautiful place, what a beatiful construction!!
Congratulations
John Cabot
Well it's a bit more ambitious than my first project, but I like it and it looks well done. I hope the horses appreciate your work.
Ron
curlybirch
I too understand your thoughts.. my first major woodworking project is the timberframe I'm living in now..
I think you can go to 34543.3 and find pictures of it.
Anyway what sort of wood went into your timberframe? Who'd you get to mill your trees?
Have you bought the usual timberframing tools such as a chain morticer and large circular saw?
On doing the timberwork did you just pick up tools and have at it as I did or did you go another route?
Wood is mostly Hemlock with a bit of pine here and there. There is a local guy here in my area that has a traveling wood mizer. Very resonable prices and he does really good work.
I bought a couple of books for inspireation on the more complex joinery such as the birds mouth seat for the rafters but I mainly just sketched out my plan and started whittling.
I did not get all the fancy tools, mostly done with my trusty 2" barr chisel and a 2" forstner bit. As staed in the first post, I did use it as an excuse to outfit the shop with a whole new range of equipment though.
I just recently finished laying down the tounge and grove spruce flooring, I dont have the completed pictures downloaded yet but here a some in process ones. This weekend the rafters are going to start going up.
CurlyI built my barn (not nearly as elaborate as yours) about 15 years ago.Here are 2 bits of advice from someone who "came close":A roof of plyscore (?) is slippery - VERY slippery. Be careful. I started wearing tennis shoes for better grip.A sheet of plywood makes a wonderful sail. I almost played a 'Mary Poppins' when I walked a sheet across the roof and a breeze caught me by surprise. Thereafter, I roofed in dead calm.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
VERY nice structure! Joinery is excellent - very complex.
I built my barn about 15 years ago. Same type of work, though much smaller and therefore fewer joints. It still as square as the day it was built. C
Congratulations.
Frosty
"if we are doing it, we are doing it right"
A bit of engineering knowledge would have helped you.
Care to expand on that?
"A bit of engineering knowledge would have helped"
I assume you are talking about the overall size of the timbers used. I was not going for a minimilist approach here. I wanted it to look good as well as function. I am well aware that much of this is overkill.
By the way....not that it is of any matter but my degrees are in Mechanical and Electrical enigneering.
Thanks for your positive response, I can see you are a glass is half empty type of person.
Curly Birch,
Making things look proper is what makes those beams so large! You are in good company.. Ted Benson the timberframe guru built his first timberframe to what was required not the perception of what was required.. (similar background) everybody including himself felt they looked too small..
Just a little tidbit I looked up, my 6x6 white oak timbers will carry something like 20 tons vertically..with timbers 4 foot on center I wind up with the ability to carry 2000 tons on one wall alone without regard to the SIP's (massively strong in their own right) and exterior timbers.. my rough calculation is that one of my walls can carry something in the order of 5000 tons! Now that's silly but it's also why barns tend to be so durable!
Don't ever apologize for making the timbers too large, consider it a trade off for durability..
ps. I like what you've done so far!
I agree with GHR - you have few problems with your design. Maybe not a factor as long as you don't put 20 tons of hay in the loft.
you notched the beams for your joists and the posts for your girts which will weaken you frame. The top side of a horizonal beam is in compression - the bottom in tension. W/ a mortise and tenon joint your mortise hole is not on the edge of the beam therefore not weakening the top of the beam in compression. A better way would have been to lay your beams then put 3x oak joists on top of your beams. Much stronger.
I would have used oak for anything structural - especially white oak as it is rot resistant - red oak being rot prone.
I don't like to see framing so close to the ground - especially on a barn with manure and bedding in the stalls. Try to keep your sill beams dry.
Don't mean to rain on your parade - your joinery looks good and tight and as long as you don't overload your structure you should be ok.
All good points.
My notches for my floor joists were kept from going more than halfway through the beam. I.E, 3" deep on an 8x8 hemlock. Plenty strong enough to keep 200 dry bales of hay from caving the structure in.
I did not use oak because I only used the trees that I cut down on the land where the barn was to sit. Right now I have a toal cost of materials of $550. And that was for sawing the logs into timbers.
Once again, I think people are missing the point. I could have spent thousands and done everything in oak and other hard woods. Or I can keep the cost to a minimum, try my hand at something I have never done before, and enjoy doing it. I could have done this many different ways, this is the way that I chose and this is what I have to show for it. I could have built this out of 2x4's and it would be able to hold the loads that it is going to see.
I expect others to think they could do it better and I applaud them......just show me the pictures when your done.
And, by the way, many timberframe home builders use the exact type of joint that I put into my barn. As seen in the pictures below. *Note these are not my pictures from my barn.
Thank you for your opinion
I think the workmanship is great and I understand your reasons for the wood selection. I did notice the notches. Particularily the mid beam as the notch extends all the way through. This beam carries a larger portion of the loft weight than the exterior beams. Be careful to get tight fitting beams atop the mid beam and the compression forces in the top of this beam will transfer accross the notch via the joists. Shim if necessary. If they do not fit tight, the beam must deflect before the compression forces will cross the joint, too much deflection could result in stress cracks. 200 square bales @ 80lb each is 16,000lb.
Not the way my wife likes them. 200 square bales at 40lbs each = 8000lbs.
4 tons..no problem. All joints are very tight.
Dont forget that the timber frame is the skeleton, I am also putting the skin on which will add to the overall strength and rigidity.
Overall, the project is impressive and like others have mentioned, you get an A+ for craftsmanship. I agree with Brad805 from an engineering standpoint, it can be assumed that you will get a composite T-section by having a tight fit, similar to how floor decking stiffens a floor system. Also, we should remember that the hay bail load of ~8 kips will be distributed over a given area so more than likely, there won't be concentrated loads but more uniform loads. There are stipluations regarding notches and borings through timber framing, relating to shear and bending stresses, and it all depends on the location of such notches both in the depth of the timber and along the span. In cases like a small barn, you more than likely won't compromise the structure since it's already beefy due to the cosmetic aspect you're going for--value engineering is not your concern.
'ey CurlyBirch,
Nice work ya done thar. No matter what anybody says, that there barn will no doubt be around long after we're not.
One of my other passtimes is doing stone work (walls, fireplaces, etc.,) if ya lived a little closer, a bottom trim of dry laid stone would be a nice accent.
Build on brother, build on....
Chris.
curley Birch
someone else pointed out the dangers of roofing with plywood, how slippery it is and how a wind gust almost makes a mary poppins effect.. Do skip sheathing instead.. I did my roof with 1 by material. I left a. slight gap between boards. that way you don't need to put cedar breather down as you should over plywood.. even if you shingle or use a steel roof it's better for your roofing material..
Curly,
To me as well it looks as though the notches in that center beam might pose a problem. Others have written that a tight fit on the cross beams that will fill up the gaps will improve things. That might work for a while. But you're probably working with pretty green timber, and those cross beams that filled the gap initially will shrink. And that will take away the "gap-filling" support they provided to the top part of the main beam.
It is possible that the beam will sag over time due to the notches. One good thing is that your angular brace (sorry I don't have the correct terminology) on the center post extends quite far under the center beam. That will help prevent a sag at least in that area. If it's possible, it might be a good idea to add similar angular braces under the main beam from the exterior wall posts.
At any rate, what's done is done and you're not likely to go back and reconfigure everything at this point. It would be a good idea to stack the hay primarily in the center of the barn though...
Otherwise, it looks as though the workmanship is good. Thanks for posting. I think we all like to see what others are up to..
Zolton
Man that will be a nice barn! I do see some problems as the others mentioned such as the notched beams and the lack of ground clearance. As your posts arent too far apart and you have plenty of joists I dont think your load will be an issue. I have seen a lot less substancial construction in barns in this area that have held up for years, granted I have only seen post and beam done in oak.
Now you could be sly about this and tell the misses that you made some serious miscalculations and that the building lacks either a "mane frame" or a hitchingpost or that the floor doesn't have enough hoof resisstance. You could then build a new barn for Mr. Ed and you could have sole occupance of your sweet timber frame shop.
Shhhhh.......She might hear you.
That was part of the master plan all along.
good work but you may have crossed over the line between woodworking and hard labor. :)
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