Replies

1. 
   BG | Dec 08, 2009 02:20pm | #1

   Chewey,

   The short answer is yes, the #7 jointer and, I'd pick the low angle block rabbit plane as my second plane.

   As you understand and use planes you'll find that a #4 is terrific but the #5 can do stuff the #4 can't. Likewise the #7 can do stuff the #5 can't do. So the #7 becomes the default go to for overall service.

   The low angle block rabbit is great because it can get into the corners and shave end grain.

2. 
   derekcohen | Dec 08, 2009 03:46pm | #2

   Hi Chewey

   If you want just two handplanes to do double duty, then consider the bevel up (BU) variety. By changing the bevel angle of the blade you can alter the characteristics of the plane. Get two blades per plane and you have the equivalent of 4 planes.

   My choice ...

   1.  Veritas Low Angle Jack:  medium high angle blade (38 degrees) for long smoother and short jointer; low angle blade (25 degrees) for cross grain levelling and end grain on a shooting board.

   http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49708&cat=1,41182,52515

   2.  Veritas Low Angle Block Plane: medium angle blade (38 degrees) together with the tote/knob accessory and you have a #3-sized smoother ...

   Used with the low angle blade you have a block plane for trimming and endgrain ..

   http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32685&cat=1,41182,48942

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

   
   

   ---

   Edited 12/8/2009 7:48 am ET by derekcohen

3. 
   gdblake | Dec 08, 2009 06:58pm | #3

   Chewey:

   My response is a combination of the last two.  Since you have a planer and jointer I would take Derek's advise on the Veritas low angle jack and get at least one extra blade to sharpen at a high microbevel angle so you can use it to smooth tricky grain.  However I would pass on the Veritas block plane in favor of the Lie-Nielsen rabbit block plane.  As already stated, it can serve as a large shoulder plane, does everything a low angle block plane can do, and with an extra blade also sharpened with a high microbevel angle it can serve as a small smoothing plane.  I own a bunch of hand planes.  My low angle jack and rabbit block plane see far more use than all the other planes put together.

   Third on my go to list of planes is my #7.  However, there are plenty of good used #7s out there that can be had for $70 or less that will serve the roll of a jointer plane quite nicely.  Given your limited budget, buy the first two planes new and keep your eyes open for an affordable #7.

   gdblake

4. 
   9619 | Dec 08, 2009 07:27pm | #4

   Chewey,
   for 500 Canadian, you should be able to get a lot of planes. I'd go for the older Stanleys. If they aren't broken, then they can be finely fettled. It takes time, but it is worth it, if you are on a budget.

   There was one woodworker who focussed mainly on a #7. That might have been Alan Peters. I'll have to look that up. Another, Charlesworth, focusses on a 5 1/2. I know from experience that you can use a 5 or 5 i/2 for smoothing, for flattening (hogging off wood in the right places), and for jointing. That's why they call it a Jack Plane (Jack of all trades). If you want a new plane, and you want to try the Jack route, I would get a Lie Nielsen 5 1/2, and get a second blade. Grind the second blade with a bit of a curve for use as a traditional Jack plane, and use the other for jointing and for smoothing. Use any money left over to get a low angle block plane, with an adjustable mouth, if possible.

   If you use your 500 for a bunch of old metal planes, you can get a 7 or an 8 for jointing, a 5, a 4 and a block plane, and have money left over for some sharpening stones.

   Derek likes BU planes and he likes Lee Valley. I haven't had much experience with BU bench planes. I do like the mass of the BD bench planes. Once you get them moving, they keep moving.

   You will need a set of scrapers. They are great for smoothing without getting tearout. You will need a burnisher to sharpen them

   With your 500, you can get all of this stuff on EBay. Or check with your local woodworking club and see if anyone has some doubles that they want to sell.

   Now if you want to go with wood planes, which is another interesting route, you have more than enough money to get more planes than you need at this time. But no sense getting into that unless you are interested. If you are interested, you can contact gdblake or lwilliams, or just post another question and you will get some good answers.

   YOU ARE RICH. 500 for planes is an ENORMOUS amount of money if you only want to do great woodwork. If you want to become a collector, you need much more.

   Another point - what kind of wood will you be using? If you will be using pine and soft maple and and poplar and other woods whose grain is not to gnarly, you can get by with "normal" planes. If you get into wild grains of Australian woods that Derek uses, then you need to have more blades, as he said, or be willing to grind for each different use.

   I know successful professional woodworkers who only use old wood planes (Ray Pine), and others who use metal planes, but stick with a 45 degree angle, and they make MASTERPIECES. I ask every professional I meet about this. Very few of them obsess over planes and have a lot of them.

   Look up the work of the Goddards and the Townsends. Their stuff now sells for the hundreds of thousands to the millions of dollars. Do some research on the planes they used in making these pieces. You will find that, while they needed a lot of moulding planes (which you are not interested in), their set of planes was not too big and not too fancy. I believe your 500 could get used (but not "collector" versions of those planes, and you would have enough money left over for a trip to Europe (if you swim well).

   DO NOT THINK THAT YOU ARE POOR. YOU ARE RICH.
   If you think creatively, and try to become as good as the Goddards and the Townsends, using tools that are much better than they had, you can get more than you need with your money. ASK DIFFERENT QUESTIONS than you did. Ask what minimal set of planes you need to make great furniture. If someone tells you that you need Lie Nielsen or Lee Valley planes, ask them if they have heard of the Goddards and the Townsends. Ask Ray Pine (joinerswork) what planes he needs to make his masterpieces.

   I didn't really give you answers. I merely suggested that you think differently about your wonderful situation (being flush with bucks), and realize that with your money, you can get far more planes than you need to make furniture as good as the Goddards and the Townsends. BUT I FORGOT TO MENTION SOMETHING. Unfortunately, it takes skill to use these planes well. It takes less skill to use modern metal planes, because they are easier to set up. BUT IT DOESN"T TAKE MONEY TO GAIN SKILL. You need practice. Guided practice would be better. Do you have anyone around who can teach you, or at least help you get started with handplanes. There are some great books on selecting and using handplanes. Look around. Check the search engine on Taunton. Taunton has produced great material on this.

   If I tell you that you need a $500 pair of shoes to become a great runner, and you see others who are great runners using $100 shoes, then you should look askance on my advice. If you ask about running shoes, I'd probably suggest you just get an "adequate" pair, and focus on training. Same goes for woodwork. FIRST learn what tool that others have used to make great furniture. If one person has $30,000 worth of planes and does nice furniture, and someone else has a set of planes that can be had for $500, and makes masterpieces, then you have learned that one doesn't need the fancy stuff, and you have learned that skill is FAR more important than tools. Remember, a great woodworker is one who can go into someone else's workshop and make masterpieces.

   Hope you enjoyed this offbeat brand of thinking which focusses on results and not on tools. If you focus on tools, you will spend, spend, spend. If you focus on results (fine furniture), and you learn how little in the way of tools are necessary for those with skills to turn out masterpieces, you don't need so much money, but you need to practice, practice, practice.

   Please note: AND THIS IS IMPORTANT. You will get different answers depending on the background of those you ask. If you ask professional woodworkers, you get different answers than if you ask hobbyists who are tool afficianados. The first group need so focus on output. The second group focusses on having fun -- which is a GREAT THING, but it gives you different answers. You have to figure what type of answer you are looking for. One of the great problems of Knots is figuring out which advice to focus on.

   I try not to answer questions on Knots, but rather I try to get questioners if they would like to think differently about what they are trying to do. With a wider mindset, one has more possibilities.

   When I asked my grandmother what type of food she likes best, she said "Italian". Guess what nationality she was. Always keep my grandmother in mind when you read advice from anyone.

   Have fun.
   Mel

   Measure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   Taigert | Dec 09, 2009 02:12am | #6

   Chewey,

   If you do a search here at FWW.com for Garrett Hack, his New book on Planes is free to download for members.

   Garrett is one of the foremost guru's there is when it comes to hand tools. And for the price it'all Win Win.

   Good luck & have fun learning, just take your time and the skills will come with practice.

   Taigert

1. 
   derekcohen | Dec 09, 2009 08:51am | #7

   Hi Taigert

   I think recommending Garrett Hack's book is a good move (it is an excellent - perhaps the best - introduction to all things about hand planes), but it must also be noted that it was written before the BU plane "revolution". The book says little about this planes. Now I must emphasise that I am not trying to sell BU planes, per se - it is just that  they are a better choice than BD planes well it comes to those that may be multitasked. Options change when you are free to select from a wide range on your workshop shelf.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

1. 
   Taigert | Dec 09, 2009 10:00am | #8

   Derek,

   I play with both sides of the blade. I will be the first to proclaim my fondness of having a chance to play with my Lie Nielsen Low Angle Jack. It does come in handy to have different blades for different applications. If one is on a limited budget I agree with your idea.

   The more woodworking I do the more enjoyment I get from using my hand planes. I am finding that hand tools are a great relaxation at the end of a crazy day.

   Taigert

   Edited 12/9/2009 2:02 am ET by Taigert

5. 
   mikeddd | Dec 09, 2009 01:35am | #5

   Chewey:

    I have to agree that I would go with the Low Angle Jack and the Rabbet Block Plane and you would still have enough left over to find a used #7 and or buy different blades for your Low Angle Jack.

   Mike