Replies

1. 
   BioHaz1906 | Jul 27, 2008 11:32pm | #1

   I think this is your test board and I am new to finishing too but try this.  Sand your wood as you did previously then seal it with dewaxed shellac then try the finish.  May help it even out a little. 

2. 
   oldusty | Jul 28, 2008 05:19pm | #2

      Different pieces of wood take finish different , I think the grain in your sample coupled with the color you are using has a tendency to reveal itself , if you used the same board but went clear with no stain you would see a different animal .

       Personally I try and never stain Maple dark or at all , usually just a natural clear finish.

          I would be careful about Watco applied over the other finish it may be best to find the right base stain instead .

                       dusty

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Jul 28, 2008 08:32pm | #3

   >> then I wiped one of them with Watco Dark walnut oil finish

   Not sure I understand. Did you first use the waterbased stain on both pieces? Then did you apply the Watco stain on one of them? If so, did the board(s) appear blotchy after the water based stain or after the Watco stain? Or both?

   Howie.........
1. 
   bmyyou | Jul 29, 2008 05:14am | #5

   I applied to water-based dye to both boards.  Then on one of the boards I applied Watco oil.  Both boards still appeared blotchy, and there was little to no effect from wiping one of the boards with the Watco oil.

4. 
   ak | Jul 29, 2008 05:01am | #4

   It seems the problem may lie in the preparation. If all you did was simply sand to 180 grit then the maple certainly won't take the dye as well as it would if it were planed, scraped, then sanded with 220 and maybe even 400. There will always be some blotch in maple when using a water based dye. The tight grain and presence of some figure (which is essentially endgrain)will produce the blotches because it isn't sealed like you would do with shellac before a stain. When you plane the wood with a hand plane you are shearing the fibers instead of abrading them. This will result in a more even and more brilliant dye job.

1. 
   bmyyou | Jul 29, 2008 05:19am | #6

   Besides the tabletop, there are not a lot of large surfaces where I can just hand scrape - only have a low angle block plane and I'm not very good at using it.  I did initially use a card scraper to smooth the boards that were joined together and hence most of the panels that make up the hutch and the bookcase, but now the panels are glued together and have trim molding glued on so I don't see how to scrape or plane those areas.  So I sanded the sample board as I was planning to sand the workpiece.

   Should I try sanding to a higher grit and repeat?

1. 
   ak | Jul 30, 2008 01:13am | #11

   I would certainly try sanding to a higher grit. It won't prevent the blotches but it will help even things out a little more. Try sanding to 220 at least, maybe 400. Also pre-wetting the board cuts down on the grain raising but I've never seen it affect the absorption of the dye. A washcoat of shellac will not work under a water based dye. It will prevent the dye from penetrating.Adam King Studio

   Fine Furniture and Antique Restoration

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 30, 2008 04:10am | #12

   When you pre-wet to reduce grain raising you wet, let dry, and then lightly sand to remove just the raised grain. 

   But, when you pre-wet to reduce blotching you wet, and then apply the dye while the surface is still wet.  There is more liquid water in the less dense areas making penetration of the water soluble dye less easy.  Just a different technique. 

1. 
   ak | Jul 30, 2008 05:54am | #13

   Hmm. I've never heard that before, Steve. It seems to make sense. I've always pre-raised (my new word?) the grain like you mentioned but slightly diluting the dye with the water on the surface of the wood...well I just never thought of it. Good tip. Thanks.Adam King Studio

   Fine Furniture and Antique Restoration

2. 
   prbayliss | Jul 30, 2008 06:46am | #14

   Hi Steve,That's exactly what I was proposing. I think that you explained it a little better.Best regards,
   Paul

5. 
   prbayliss | Jul 29, 2008 05:36am | #7

   Hi bmyyou.

   I'm also new to this, but on a small piece made of poplar (which I read is also prone to blotching) I did essentially the same as you. However, I sanded to 320, then dampened the surface with water before applying the water based dye.

   Your test piece looks similar to the test pieces that I made before I started to dampen the surface.

   I unerstand that the reason this works is because it prevents areas that want to absorb more dye from doing so because you are ?saturating? them with water before the dye is applied.

   I can't remember where I read this, but I had no blotchiness at all. Everything quite even.

   Best regards,
   Paul

1. 
   bmyyou | Jul 29, 2008 06:39am | #8

   That's great news - thanks for the tip; I will definitely try that technique.  I also think the "full strength" ratio of the stain to water was too dark, so I am going to reduce the concentration of powder by half for the next test batch.

   Thanks

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 29, 2008 05:44pm | #10

   Wetting the board first is another example of using a wash coat. Wash coats are essentially any thinned finish (or in this case, the base of the dye).

   I agree with those that suggest trying to finish maple to a dark color is problematic.  If given a choice, alder is a much more cooperative wood to choose for such an effort.  Alder can blotch too, but seems easier to successfully wash coat and achieve an even finish, even dark ones such as walnut.

   Biohaz suggested dewaxed shellac, but did not emphasize that it should be a thin coat.  I can't give specifics for pre-dye use, but a 1# cut or even less is what I'd try.  forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

6. 
   Gretchen | Jul 29, 2008 04:04pm | #9

   Maybe I just don't understand, but this just doesn't look like "blotching" to me. It looks like grain, and to me is not unpleasant. That said, it is a bit dark for maple, as somone else mentioned.  I really like wood to look like wood, and grain is part of it.  There are other examples of "blotching" that is really unpleasant, of course, but I don't see that here. Just my opinion.

   Gretchen