Replies

1. 
   Samson | Nov 14, 2008 10:06pm | #1

   Depends upon what you want it to look like.  Anyline dye and shellac can make a nice finish.  I've done some with oil/varnish (like Watco), and it looks good too, though as it ages it gets yellower (something I don't mind, but some might).

1. 
   chalky | Nov 14, 2008 10:12pm | #2

   I've never used dye before. Does it have the same look as stain. I'd like to go a little darker than natural, but everything I've tried takes away from the grain. I've used washcoat of shellac and denatured alcohol-nothing seems to make a difference.

1. 
   Samson | Nov 14, 2008 10:19pm | #3

   I was referring to these sorts of products:

   http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=20081&cat=1,190,42996&ap=1

   I don't claim to be a finishing guru, and it's hard to recommend something for someone else as tastes can differ, but look these over and if they seem interesting, buy a pack to test on some scrap.

1. 
   chalky | Nov 14, 2008 10:31pm | #4

   Thank you, that may be the way to go.

1. 
   cwalvoord | Nov 14, 2008 11:13pm | #5

   I am no expert either but I have used dyes a few times and been pretty happy with the results. The dyes Samson recommended should not obscure the grain. The dye alone will often look very different (generally worse) than it does with a clear coat of something over the top. Make a test sample of the dye with a shellac top coat to see the "true color" result. It is pretty easy to vary the strength of the dye by adding more or less powder or concentrate to the mix. You can also very easily mix several different shades of dye together. Experiment until you find something you like.Note that shellac also comes in different colors and can be used in combination with the dye to come up with the final result. Homestead finishing has a pretty good selection of both dyes and shellac colors.Hope that helps.
   Chris

2. 
   chalky | Nov 14, 2008 11:45pm | #6

   Thanks Chris

2. 
   mapleman | Nov 15, 2008 04:57am | #7

   You could try a gel stain if the aniline dye doesn't work out. General Finishes makes a good gel stain, it's available at Woodcraft and Woodworker's Supply.

    

   Lee

3. 
   terrylee86 | Nov 15, 2008 05:32am | #8

   Mapleman is right about gel stains.  They were developed for woods that tend to blotch.  General Finishes makes excellent products as do others.  The trouble with dyes is they are dissolved in water and that is where the fun begins.  NGR stains are dyes dissolved in solvent, but can be a little tricky.  I really like  Mohawk wiping wood stains or their ultra penetrating wood stains, but I have been finishing for 30 years.  The gel stains are very forgiving.  If you don't have a lot of experience I would try gel stains and wiping on thinned varnish.

1. 
   chalky | Nov 15, 2008 07:12am | #9

   I tried Minwax Gel stain and wasn't very happy with the results. Is there really much difference between minwax and mohawk or general finishes?

1. 
   terrylee86 | Nov 15, 2008 05:23pm | #10

   I don't have a lot of faith in any Minwax products, so it might be worth checking out General Finishes gel stain. They sell it in a little half pint can you can use to test with so you are not out much money. I have never used a Mohawk gel stain, but I bet it would be first rate. I use Mohawk wiping wood stain or ultra penetrating (NGR) wood stain on everything I stain. Wiping wood stain can be sprayed over in a half an hour and that makes it real desirable. I usually spray precat lacquer or conversion varnish from S-W. I have stained alot of maple with excellent results with Mohawk products. General Finishes makes a similar product ,but I have not used it.

2. 
   mapleman | Nov 15, 2008 06:19pm | #11

   chalky,

   Minwax makes some of the worst finishing products available to the public. I may get some flak for that but I believe it's true.

   I have used Bartley's Gels stains also but I feel the General Gel stain is a better product with better colors.

   Tell you what I would be willing to do. I have all 13 General gel stain colors. Send me a piece of maple or I can dig up some scraps and I can test all of the colors and send them back to you. You pay the shipping only. That way you can see what the colors look like before you spend the $.

   Lee

1. 
   chalky | Nov 15, 2008 07:46pm | #12

   Thanks for all your replies. Minwax is the only over the counter product availabe here. I guess I will have to start looking in catalog for these other brands. Do you precondition the wood if using a gel? I've sanded to 150 grit, is that far enough or should I go to 180?

1. 
   mapleman | Nov 16, 2008 03:35am | #13

   150 is fine, in fact 180 is probably too fine. The General stain recommends stopping at 150 I think.

   I get mine from Woodcraft or Woodworkers Supply via mail order.

   Lee

2. 
   ButchE | Nov 16, 2008 04:02am | #14

   I see I'm the oddman here, but I want all my wood to look like it's supposed to, right from the tree. each species has it's own natural beaulty and all that's needed is protection/sealer. I love hard maple and wouldn't think of dying or staining it. flamed maple is absolutely gorgeous with nothing but clear coats. I have maple capped Les Paul guitars that have been stained/dyed, and their look is more "color" than wood appearance. be it walnut/oak/maple/pine/wenge/ whatever... make mine natural... just like it was created... but that's just me..

3. 
   mapleman | Nov 16, 2008 08:10am | #15

   Butch,

   I understand completely. I build custom cabinets for a living. When a customer is handing me a $20,000 check for cabinets, I'll paint them purple with gold polka dots if that's what they want.

   Most people want cheap (inexpensive) wood, like maple - but they want it stained to look like cherry or walnut. My experience with staining maple is strictly what I have learned in the cabinet business.

   Personally, I wouldn't build anything for myself out of plain maple but I love figured maple. Curly/tiger/fiddleback may or may not get a stain (dye) but the birdseye gets a clear finish every time.

    

   Lee

    

    

    

4. 
   ButchE | Nov 16, 2008 04:27pm | #16

   Lee,

   ...for 20 grand, I'd do the same... I don't understand staining one wood to look like another, as they rarely even come close..you can make a light wood dark, but that don't make it walnut...nor have the characteristics that are individual. I'm building a chest o' drawers for my daughter out of hard maple and like my Grandsons' bed, it'll be clear coat to bring out the figure that's even remotely present.

    I,too, understand where you're coming from on this issue.

    Butch

5. 
   chalky | Nov 16, 2008 07:02pm | #17

   Since you guys have much more experience than me with maple. Is there a product you use for clear coating? How many layers? Do you still sand to 150? I'm pretty proud of the cabinet I made and don't want to mess it up with the finish. Do any of you use shellac?

6. 
   terrylee86 | Nov 16, 2008 11:42pm | #18

   If you are not going to stain it, you can give it a little color with a good varnish topcoat.  That will give it an amber tone and give the blonde wood a richer look.  Shellac is still used, but it does not give you the protection of a good poly or varnish.  Shellac has many good uses but top coats are not it's strongest suite.  Buy a quality varnish (General finishes or Pratt & Lambert or a good Poly and thin it 1 to 1 with mineral spirits and apply with a clean lint free rag and let dry overnite and sand with 320 between coats and put on about 4 coats and you will have a beautiful finish.  If you do not want the amber tone, you can use a water-based poly and it will not yellow the finish.  I am not a big fan of H20 on wood, but some people have great results.

7. 
   chalky | Nov 16, 2008 11:52pm | #19

   Thanks to everyone who took the time to give me some advice. I learned alot about finishing from you guys. Thanks again.

8. 
   ButchE | Nov 17, 2008 01:11am | #20

   excellent advice...just how I do it..minus the H2O..don't want it around. working up different shellacs really goes a long way in learning what does/doesn't look good on maple.. the amber look does bring out the figure, as long as ya don't go too dark with it. but it's a matter of personal taste as I see it.

4. 
   PaulMassachusetts | Nov 17, 2008 01:51am | #21

      Leaving maple with a natural look can be too bland but it depends on your goal. Maple can be bleached and finished with a water based product. This keeps it very light for the modern look and would not yellow. I  have not done this.

      I have used dyes on a few larger pieces-tables and end tables-with good results. The final look is after a finish is applied over the dye; dye alone looks like it lacks something. Colors I have used included honey amber and antique colonial maple.

    There are many finishes, some are shop mixtures. I would avoid poly-my results were not that good. My best results were with a 1/2/3 finish. One part Rockhard brand varnish (true varnish), two parts boiled linseed oil, and three parts mineral spirits.  You put it on like Watco. Let each coat dry a month (yes) and add more coats, perhaps increasing the % of varnish. You soak in the first coat , leave it there a half hour, and wipe it off. Later coats do not need as much time while applying before drying.  

   That is my technique as a hobbyist. I prefer the traditional look and would not consider undyed  wood.  Dye brings out the beauty in maple.