Replies

1. 
   PeteBradley | Apr 09, 2006 10:25pm | #1

   I'd start by using the machines out of the box. They will most likely come ready to go out of the factory. There's an astonishing number of posts here of people wanting to accurately measure up their jointers, when in most cases, they have no problem that needs fixing. Jointer tuning has its place, but if your new machine was set up properly at the factory, the difference between "as good as it gets" and a few thou off from that is not measurable in the final product.

   Set those machines up and start making chips!

   Enjoy,

   Pete

1. 
   milanuk | Apr 09, 2006 11:10pm | #2

   Thanks! The bandsaw is probably going to be set up first, as I've got a couple projects lined up that should be right up it's alley so I can take my time w/ the jointer. Probably more apprehensive about it than I need to be. Just a little worried about all the bumps and knocks the machinery may (have) suffer(ed) btwn the factory and final assembly in my basement shop...Thanks again,Monte

1. 
   gb93433 | Apr 09, 2006 11:14pm | #3

   Seldom have I ever seen a banmdsaw which had balanecd wheels right out of the box.

2. 
   PeteBradley | Apr 10, 2006 03:54am | #4

   A small square is a really useful thing for setting up your band saw. It should be squared up when you get it, but it's userul for checking that zero degrees really is 0 when you tilt back. It's easy to get a chip in the tilt mechanism and hve it just a little bit off.Pete

2. 
   RonK | Apr 10, 2006 05:54am | #5

   I learned about using the method using the screws them while taking a woodworking machine class a few years ago and it can be accurate and useful. We did end up using a 5' Starrett for the actual work but screw method was usable. 

   I just spent a couple of weekends in a course on setting up woodworking machines given by Will Neptune at Phil Lowe's Furniture Institute of Massachusetts (Highly Recommended). The methods they employed were much more low tech but the results were highly accurate. If the method described in John White's book(I haven't read it) is in sufficient detail I would use that method and save the money until such time that I could afford  machinist quality straightedges(Starrett).

   I went through a couple of gyrations of using straightedges and eventually spent the money for the Starrett which I haven't regretted but if that price is to steep the screws are probably as accurate as the Lee Valley stuff and a whole lot cheaper.

1. 
   forestgirl | Apr 10, 2006 07:21pm | #6

   I know that Starrett is the ultimate in accuracy, and the Lee Valley Veritas straight edges weren't around a few years ago, but don't discount them!  I've seen John mention them as an alternative to Starrett when $$ is an issue.  They are stated to be accurate to within .003 over their length (aluminum) or .001 (steel).  Here's the page:

   http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=50074&cat=1,240,45313forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   RonK | Apr 11, 2006 01:57am | #7

   Well, He is trying to setup a machine so I thought a machine quality setup tool (I don't think Veritas is) would be useful. You could use the Veritas and (probably a few others)  to set up the jointer and get acceptable results but the real question asked was if the alternate method using screws could be used and the answer based on my admittedly limited experience is yes.

   I'm not unmindful of the fact few of us can afford to buy everything of the highest quality but my own opinion is that anything I use to set up my equipment or is the last tool to touch my work should be of highest quality I can afford If a homegrown solution works I can use it and take the money saved and put it toward a better quality of something else I need. 

   Someone else in this discussion thought that most machines are pretty well set up when you get them. Where I learned about setting up tools the attitude was everything you buy with the exception of your Starrett (combo square) need to be turned up. Still others I know feel almost all machine tools made today are kits that the purchaser still has to put together and tune. Personally I'm a little less cynical then that but I do feel with the exception of Lie Nielson Planes(which still benefit from a little tweaking) everything else I've purchased needed some tuneup (This includes numerous Veritas products so I am very familiar with them and overall like the company).

   The equipment we purchase will probably benefit from some tuneup but more importantly down the road maintenance will need to be done. Cast iron sags, wheels get out of alignment. Blades and knives need replacement. Every piece of woodworking machinery we buy needs some attention. This means that that straightedge we buy today or that dial indicator will touch our work at an even more important point in the future. Professional setup tools are cheap in the long run.

   I once had an instructor show the class a tool(name doesn't matter) and he said if your like most people you go to the hardware store and buy the handyman special for $22.00. After using it for a little while you return and buy the "profession version, which actually works well, for $35. So you in fact wind up paying $57.00 for the tool you could have bought for $35.00. This was a tool we were going to have to spend some time with so this makes some sense There are those instances where we need a special tool for a one time use so anything will do. I think the purchase of a quality straightedge is in the long term category.

   I know I go a bit overboard on the quality bit but my father was a machinist in the aircraft industry before he went out on his own and I did learn from him the value of quality tools. I am still using machine tools I got from him that were built in the middle of the last century were well maintained and today perform better then 90% of what I can currently buy.

   With the proliferation of cheap imported tools we are fortunate to have companies such as Starrett, Lie Nielsen, Steve Knight planes and others who still produce a quality product. I  had a discussion with someone who went on a tour of Starrett. They make everything down to the smallest screw in house to control the quality of the final product.

   Yes, other things will work. I just think the small incremental cost of a first class setup tool is a no brainer. Others my certainly disagree.

   Edited 4/10/2006 7:00 pm ET by RonK

2. 
   Jim42 | Apr 13, 2006 05:36am | #8

   I haven't seen the new Lee Valley straightedges, but they used to sell a 1-meter long aluminum unit that also had a spec of 0.003". I checked it with feeler gages on our 2'x3' Starrett pink granite surface plate, and it was well within the spec over its entire length. A Starrett or Suburban would have been even better, but at four or five times the price.
   Jim

1. 
   forestgirl | Apr 13, 2006 06:46am | #9

   .003 over 50" (see here) seems plenty good enough to me!  Thanks for the confirmation that they're as good as they say.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   milanuk | Apr 13, 2006 09:22am | #10

   IIRC, what I have on order is a precision LV double square, a steel 2' straight edge, an aluminum 50" straight edge, and a set of long feeler gauges. Hopefully that'll get things 'close enough for government work'. :DFWIW, so far other than some tweaking of the guides on the bandsaw, both the bandsaw and the jointer (both Craftsman 'zip code' tools... 14" steel frame bandsaw and 6-1/8" jointer) seem to cut just fine w/ minimal setup. I was a little surprised that the bandsaw came pretty much pre-setup, w/ the blade on the wheels alreay as one unit, ready to set on the lower cabinet stand (that had to be assembled separately). First time use these tools (bandsaw, jointer) other than fiddling w/ some badly abused tools at work (the power plant that I work at has some woodworking stuff to make things like framing, staging, custom fit packing crates for large and *heavy* items), but initial messing around w/ a pine 1x3 involving ripping, cutting curves, 're-sawing' a 1/16" slice off of it, and then running the sawn surfaces over the jointer seems to indicate both pieces are at least basically functional out of the box.I'm a little pre-occupied at the moment... got a match coming up this weekend (other hobby) so all energy focused on that, and more next month, but in between I hope to grab some sheet goods and make a few alignment bars and give 'em a try. SWMBO wants some adironack chairs for the back yard, some steps for the hot tub, and then some indoor project stuff... should be enough 'beginner' projects to keep me out of *too* much trouble :DThanks,Monte

   Edited 4/13/2006 2:31 am by milanuk