I’m putting a stopped groove in the top and bottom of some shoji screens..I used a multiplane to make a centered 1/4″ groove a 1/4″ deep. However, I was unable to make the start and end of the groove a 1/4″ deep and so ended up using a router plane to finish the job..this worked fairly well but took awhile. Is there another or better way to do it? Remeber this is a hand tool forum.
Thanks,
Neil
Replies
You can chop enough of the groove to let the nose of the multiplane pass into the mortise or use a router plane, like you did.
In theory, and with a mortise chisel in practiced hands, chopping would be faster and would have caused the 'old boys' a relatively brief interlude before the plow was brought to bear.
I chop 'em. Carefully. And frankly not that quickly. Oh well, the joinery is supposed to be half the fun right? More if you're building somebody else's design.
Edited 5/11/2009 12:16 pm ET by BossCrunk
If I need to make a true stopped groove, that's how I would do it. (But I might pick up a mortise chisel instead of the router plane if it was closer.) Otherwise, I would just plow the groove through and plug the ends with a piece cut to fit & match the grain.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
OK, thanks guys, although I'm passable with a mortise chisel I don't think I'd try to make an 18" groove with one...maybe it's easier than it sounds....anyway, I appreciate the input...my wife looked at my progress and said "Why don't you just use a router?"...I guess she's a little sick of waiting for the screens to be done..
"I don't think I'd try to make an 18" groove with one"
No, no. Just the ends like you did with the router.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Ahh, just the ends..makes more sense....that's why it's novice neil
You only need to go the distance from the end of the mortise to the cutter's edge of the multiplane, but go a little farther so you won't bruise the mortise, in other words, give yourself a touch of breathing room. Score nice, deep lines with a cutting gauge to keep the walls super clean - a ragged chiseled edge will really show on workpieces that don't have a stuck or applied molding. Remember to match the cutter you use in the multiplane to the size mortise chisel you use to chop the groove.
I'm putting a stopped groove in the top and bottom of some shoji screens..I used a multiplane to make a centered 1/4" groove a 1/4" deep. However, I was unable to make the start and end of the groove a 1/4" deep and so ended up using a router plane to finish the job..this worked fairly well but took awhile. Is there another or better way to do it?
Hi Neil
I would not recommend making a stopped groove with a plough, but it can be done (heck, you can do anything with any tool - you just have to be creative).
I don't have any pics of this process, but I have something similar, perhaps better since they are like a cut away of a groove.
Here is the process of what occurs when you use a plough to make a stopped rebate.
In the first image you see a marked out rebate with the stopped end sawn. This will be chiselled out to prevent breaking out the end. The arrows mark the grain direction.
The next image shows the rebate cut with a plough. What you will see is that the cut curves owing to the limitation of the length of the plane's skate. That is what you reported as well.
I used a router plane to clean up the waste here. In the absence of a router plane, just use a chisel (held bevel down) - mortice or otherwise. Actually the mortice chisel might be preferred if if offers more control - mine, however, have a small secondary bevel which makes registration more difficult.
The completed stopped rebate ..
... which is part of this cabinet back ..
The process should be the same for a stopped groove.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Neil - I "go against the grain" here - at least the latest woodworking wisdom of recovered hand-tool techniques. I use a router plane for the entire operation - specifically, Lee-Valley's router plane.
While the original Stanely designed #71 would be a bit of a PITA to do this with, the Lee Valley design makes it really easy - simply score the sides of the groove with a marking gauge (to prevent the surface fibers from being torn and looking ugly), set the two locknuts to the ultimate depth of the groove, set the router plane's fence, and make repeated passes with the plane, twsting the blade depth adjustment knob with each pass.
To me, this is a lot easier and less risky to the ends of the groove than drilling/chopping a hole at both ends of the mortise, using a plow to sort of halfway get there (and leaving curved ramps at both ends), and finishing with a router plane. It's a whole lot faster just to use the router plane for the whole operation, and you can simply use a quick paring cut with a chisel at the ends of the groove to release the shavings at the end of the process.
If the groove is fairly deep and fairly long in hard wood, I use a chisel and a mallet to rough out the groove, and finish with the router plane because it's quicker. Most of the time in softwood like EWP and Poplar, I just use the router plane.
I've done this with a wooden router plane as well - so long as the plane's been modified with an attached, adjustable fence on the sole, it's about as quick as the metal version - a small tap with a plane adjusting hammer after each pass gets you down to the bottom of the groove very quickly. One of these wooden guys has the advantage of being able to plow a wider groove with one pass, as they're meant to use the same irons as a wooden plow (i.e., as wide as 7/8").
Hi Neil
I also prefer the use of a router plane for a stopped groove. I posted the earlier tutorial simply because you said that you only had a combination plane and did not have a router plane. A router plane is really so useful that you should consider getting one.
If cost is a factor, look out for a vintage Stanley #71. Even the Veritas or LN small router planes would do a great job if used with a marking gauge, knife and chisel ..
View Image
View Image
Better still are either the large LN or Veritas router planes. They have more features, notably a fence. This enables them to do a decent imitation of a plough - with the advantage of working in close confines.
A stopped groove in a dovetailed box.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Depending on the wood, this can be very easily done with a chisel. A really sharp mortise chisel would work. But a lot of guys grind these like punches (not mentioning any names Joel) so if you are in this camp, you'd have to use a firmer. I woud set in one end and then just pare, bevel down, with the chisel just 10 degrees or so off it's bevel. Just pare it out. If the chisel is sharp, a mallet won't be faster. Just imagine the tool like a plane without a sole.
I think I could beat any plane for speed as I can take more aggressive cuts with a chisel. It would be even faster if you started with some sort of plow just to establish a groove to house the chisel. Otherwise, the first cuts must be made very carefully. This is basically how I do mortises.
I think guys don't turn often enough to the world's oldest woodworking tool. Planes are really just chisels held and guided in block of wood. I don't think you need a ton of experience to use a chisel as I describe. Just go for it. Skip the fences and jigs and guides. All that stuff can be limiting and can suck the fun out of woodworking.
If you need a really accurate depth, you may need to use your router plane. In my shop, my router plane uses my plow's irons. My plow's irons are ground to match my mortise chisels. My firming chisels are ground just under my mortisers so they can clean up mortises when called for. So everybody helps each other. We all work together!
Adam
Edited 5/13/2009 6:23 am ET by AdamCherubini
Yesterday I had one groove left to do. I used the combination plane to make the initial groove and get the depth down to a quarter inch and then finishe with the large LV router plane..went twice as fast and was actually perfect...I guess I just needed validation (and experience)..Adam, sometime I'llrobably try the chisel method but I didn't want another learning curve on the last screen.
Thanks to everyone for their advice. This is what I like most about this forum. Although the occasional hand tool debate and debacle is fun, at least for awhile.
Still noviceneil
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