Replies

1. 
   Crunk | Nov 03, 2004 04:59pm | #1

   Frankly, it's all about the thickness of the blade. 

   You ought to simply buy an ECE scrub plane and get on with your woodworking.They cost less than $100.

   While you can certainly put somewhat of a cambered profile on a standard smoother iron, it is a very poor substitute for the real thing.

   I work wood exclusively with hand tools and can assure you that a real scrub plane, a purpose-built unit, is INDISPENSIBLE in the shop.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 11/3/2004 10:03 am ET by BossCrunk

1. 
   dimitri | Nov 03, 2004 05:12pm | #3

   Thanks very much for your reply. I also was thinking of buying one instead of trying to make one etc. I am looking at the Ece scrub plane now and I think i will buy it.

   thanks,

   Dimitri

1. 
   Crunk | Nov 03, 2004 05:43pm | #4

   You've made the right decision.

2. 
   Alan | Nov 04, 2004 12:54am | #9

   Dimitri,

   I have an ECE scrub plane.  It's a wonderful tool; it's well made, and the materials are top drawer.  Best of all, it's dirt cheap!  I  bought mine from The Best Things for less than sixty swombolians.

   Alan

1. 
   BG | Nov 04, 2004 03:24am | #10

   Dimitri,

   I converted a #3 into a scrub plane and it works well.  At an auction last spring I ended up buying 6 wood planes with the heavy blades.  I use two of those as scrub too...one is a smoother, one a convex bottom....removes wood very fast and much lighter than the #3.  Just a couple of more options...all 6 planes cost me $55.

2. 
   CharlieD | Nov 03, 2004 07:29pm | #5

   Boss, how do you feel about the comparison between the ECE--which I just looked up, looks good--and an old Stanley #40?

   Charlie

   I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut

1. 
   Crunk | Nov 03, 2004 07:59pm | #6

   I actually have the Lie Nielsen scrubber which is a fine tool.  But, I've gone to almost all wood planes because of a nagging elbow problem. 

   It's hard to beat wood-on-wood.  I've found that across the whole range of bench planes (I'll throw the scrubber in that category) that wood dampens vibration much more and is generally easier to push.

   My elbow problem is easier to manage now that I'm using *mostly* wood planes.

   Edited 11/3/2004 1:00 pm ET by BossCrunk

1. 
   CharlieD | Nov 03, 2004 09:24pm | #7

   Well, you make a good case. So, you feel that the performance is about equal?

   Charlie

   I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut

1. 
   Crunk | Nov 03, 2004 10:26pm | #8

   Without question the performance is equal with the added benefit of the wooden scrubber being easier on the woodworker.

   The wood also takes a nice wax job with a high carnauba formula wax.  Makes everything super slippery.  Rust is also not a problem.  If you've ever owned a ductile iron plane you know how readily they rust in a drafty shop.

   The L-N is a very high quality plane for what it is, but what is is an iron plane.  A wood plane is a different animal.  I have no doubt if L-N started building wooden planes that they would be exquisite.

3. 
   bsutton12 | Nov 04, 2004 07:54pm | #11

   I have the ECE scrub plane but have not used it very much.  As a regular user, what are your thoughts on the amount of curvature in the cutting edge.  As purchased, I felt the it was too great and ground a gentler curve.

1. 
   Crunk | Nov 04, 2004 07:59pm | #12

   I like the more aggressive profile but it can get the unititiated into a bit of trouble. 

   A lot of users have the mistaken impression that hand tool work is slow.  Well, it's easy as hell to remove too much material with a scrub plane.

   That said, if a gentler profile suits the way you like to work then I think that's great.  I might have used it a little more before making that determination but if you're happy with the modification then that is what matters.

   Edited 11/4/2004 1:19 pm ET by BossCrunk

1. 
   CharlieD | Nov 04, 2004 09:14pm | #13

   Y'know, one of the things that has baffled me and kept me from buying a scrub plane is how one sharpens that curved blade. I also haven't been able to dig the info up anywhere. It seems obvious that a razor edge is essential for this task; how exactly, is this done?

   Charlie

   I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut

1. 
   Crunk | Nov 04, 2004 09:54pm | #14

   By hand, with a simultaneous sweeping and rocking motion across a stone.  I use ceramic stones.  It's not hard to do, but I wouldn't want to do it on a waterstone.  Also, one can't hone a scrub plane blade with a jig.  The sweeping motion and a light touch are essential to maintain the camber.

   A perfect razor edge is nice but not an absolute necessity with a scrubber.  Once you learn the technique it lends itself quite nicely to quick, no-big-deal touchups using a stone that can reside in your bench's tool well.

   It's one of those things that if you think about too much you will surely convince yourself it can't be done.  Don't fall prey to that mindset. 

   Just do it.

   Edited 11/4/2004 2:58 pm ET by BossCrunk

2. 
   BG | Nov 04, 2004 10:31pm | #15

   CharlieD,

   Last Saturday I watched a guy do a great job sharpening curves on a belt sander...rolling from side to side while maintaining the angle with a jig

3. 
   Crunk | Nov 04, 2004 10:44pm | #16

   In that case, one might simply just use a belt sander in lieu of the scrubber altogether.

   Sharpening without any kind of jig is a worthy goal.  Sharpening without flipping on a belt sander (all due respect to Tage Frid) is an even worthier goal.

   A few stones is all you need.  A jig is okay for a regrind by hand.  Other than that they are a waste of time.

4. 
   BenM | Nov 05, 2004 02:24pm | #18

   I have to disagree with you on using a belt sander instead of a scrub plane.  A scrub plane is much much faster. :)

5. 
   Crunk | Nov 05, 2004 04:22pm | #19

   I was being facetious, of course.

6. 
   JohnWW | Nov 05, 2004 12:48am | #17

   I sharpen these kinds of blades differently, I true them up straight across and then slightly angle up the outermost 3/8 of an inch or so on each side of the blade, just by a few hundreths of an inch.  The final honing by hand blends the doglegs into the main part of the blade smoothly.

   John W.

    

2. 
   dimitri | Nov 05, 2004 05:09pm | #20

   I just got the ece primus scrub plane last night! I was looking at the curvature of the blade and it did seem just a light steep but I think thats ok. Some people say that the curvature isint that important but this plane seems like it will work good.

   There is a instruction sheet that came with it but its in german. I took three years of german in college a longgggg time ago. If I cant find those instructions in english, I will sit down with a german english dictionary and translate it myself. I looked at their website but no luck with ant description.

   Dimitri

1. 
   Crunk | Nov 05, 2004 06:10pm | #21

   Email David Warren (the ECE U.S. distributor) at:

   [email protected]

   if you have questions about setting up and using the plane.

1. 
   dimitri | Nov 05, 2004 10:01pm | #22

   I emailed him just now. I'll let you know if he can help.

   In addition to the ece scrub I just bought, I also have a ece smoother that is sitting with my plane collection. I may take that out and try it this weekend. Its the smoother that does not have the adjustable mouth.

   Dimitri

2. 
   Crunk | Nov 05, 2004 10:34pm | #23

   Have fun.

2. 
   MarkRoderick | Nov 05, 2004 10:45pm | #24

   I have the same plane. You don't really need instructions. You just need to sharpen and hone the blade and you'll pretty quickly figure out how to cut with it. I found that it's best not to have the blade protrude very far. Otherwise it's hard to push and you tear out lots of wood.

1. 
   dimitri | Nov 05, 2004 11:00pm | #25

   ok Thanks! I figured that it would actually be that simple! The problem is that because its my first wooden plane that i actually will use, how do you adjust the blade once its ready? I read somewhere that you tap the front or the back or the top of the plane depending on what you want the blade to do. Thats the stuff that i want to learn more about. How do you retract or move the blade forward once the blade is installed and ready to be used.

   Dimitri

2. 
   MarkRoderick | Nov 05, 2004 11:07pm | #26

   You just have to fiddle with the blade position until you get it right. That's about the best I can say. To tell you the truth I haven't developed the skill to micro-adjust the blade once it's firmly held by the wedge, but maybe it's possible. Good luck.

3. 
   Alan | Nov 06, 2004 12:34am | #27

   Dimitri,

   Back to sharpening for a bit.  I sharpen my scrub plane iron with a jig, usually my Lee Valley jig.  There's no problem whatever using a jig to sharpenan iron with a big camber.

   I first press on the outside edge of the iron and swipe it back and forth four or so times.  Then I press on the opposite corner for four strokes.  Then I move my finger a bit towards the middle of the iron and take three strokes...  I'm sure you get it:  I keep alternating sides, pressing on only one spot at a time, each time moving closer to the center of the iron, and I take fewer strokes as I get closer to the middle.  It's easy to get a very sharp iron this way.  You'll soon discover your own way of doing it.

   As for adjusting the extension of the iron, think of Isaac Newton, as in "a body at rest will tend to remain at rest..."

   If the iron is not extended enough, tap the toe of the plane with a mallet.  The iron will tend to remain where it is as the plane moves backwards, which means the iron will extend just a bit more.

   Do the reverse to withdraw the iron.  Tap the heel of the plane with your mallet and the iron will withdraw.  Many planes have a button on top, in front of the mouth.  Tapping on the button will also withdraw the iron.

   Tapping with a mallet will work only for pretty fine adjustments.  To get the iron to the point where you can finish the adjustment with a mallet tap on the plane:  first loosen up the iron and wedge;  then put the iron so the edge is a bit above the sole, and then press the wedge in enough to hold it there.  Check the extension.  It should still be withdrawn a little.  If so, tap the wedge with your mallet, and again check the iron.  Keep tapping the wedge until it is tight.  Then, if the iron isn't extended enough (and it probably won't be) tap the top of the iron with your mallet.  Once you get the iron even with the sole, or perhaps extended just a whisper, you can revert to tapping on the body of the plane.  The idea is to get the wedge tight when the iron is just the littlest bit too high, and then set the iron by tapping on the plane.

   Setting the iron in a wood plane is also something you'll soon do your own way.  About the only thing that won't work is to set the wedge while the iron is extended too far.

   Have fun.  You're going to love dimensioning with that plane.

   Alan

4. 
   dimitri | Nov 08, 2004 04:41pm | #28

   Alan,

   Thanks very much for your response. I appreciate it. I printed out your response so I can follow it in detail.

   Dimitri

2. 
   desertrat | Nov 03, 2004 05:08pm | #2

   I have a transitional that the mouth was well worn on, so I converted it to a scrub and it works quite well.  The blade is 2" wide, so it sometime takes a little more effort than most conventional scrubs, but it still works quite well.

   I just put the blade on my grinder and worked it into the arc that I wanted, finished sharpening with my sandpaper setup and went to work.