Replies

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 17, 2008 03:08pm | #1

   First question--is this one of a set?  If not you just need a nice mahogany finish that is similar in nature to the original.  You would repair, then strip, dye, seal fill pores or stain, and then apply a fresh top coat. 

   Don't do much if any sanding on the piece, allow the stripper to remove the old finish so patina still remains.  Even refinished as a one of a kind piece you would usually still want it to keep some age. 

   Let the dye be the source of the the hint of red in the color, and tinted pore filler or pigmented stain tone that down with a more brown shade.

   If the 1900 date is right, most likely the original finish is shellac and using a darker grade of shellac would also help retain a sense of age. 

    

1. 
   danm | Jul 17, 2008 03:40pm | #2

   Thanks, Steve.  It is indeed part of a set; there are two other side chairs and a rather more elaborate arm chair along with a table.  I'm guessing at the age: it's a huge table with a massive understructure. The table must weigh 200 to 300 pounds. We are reconstructing this to serve as a conference table in a ca 1900 farm house which is the headquarters for the Southeast Michigan Land Conservancy; the house has seen some rough use over the years and is a challenge to maintain. But the gift of the table and chairs was good. They will replace two plastic tables with the charm of mud. 

   So I have to try to match the color of the chair as well as I can; I don't plan to strip it, just leave the rest as is (I may touch up a few other nicks). It's an old chair, and that's what it's supposed to be.

    

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 17, 2008 04:12pm | #3

   I was afraid that was what you were going to say. 

   When it has to match, there is a lot of experimation that is needed.  The process is basically the same--start with a dye to get the basic coloration and darkness, but be sure that the initial dye is a bit lighter than you want to end up.  If you have to fill pores to be a good match, do it fairly early.  The tinting is what will take some experimentation, which will depend on how prominent the pores are in the original.  If they almost disappear then you want a close match to the base color of the dye.  From there it is a process of adding toned finish--often just darker shellacs--to reach a similar coloration as the originals.  Get a color wheel, and use it to use the toned finish (shellac) to build up the final color and to shift the hue in small degrees.  (If at all possible, work in the light of the space where these will go.  Metamerism is the enemy of matching in these situations.  A great match in the shop can stand out in the final location.)  After bringing down the sheen in the end, a little dark wax can work wonders. 

   But still it is a lot of trial and error, so give your self some extra pieces to work on as finish samples.  Sometimes it comes all together, and some times I have been glad that DNA removes shellac readily so I could begin again. 

1. 
   danm | Jul 17, 2008 04:47pm | #4

   Experiment, experiment! I'll let you know how it turns out. Dan

2. 
   hammer1 | Jul 17, 2008 05:52pm | #5

   I do a fair amount of repair to old furniture. I also build new to match old. I used to use dyes but they are a big pain and don't penetrate the pores of open grain species like mahogany. There are a lot of other problems with them I won't go into. I prefer to use standard oil based stains. Sometimes you can get pretty close with an existing color. At other times, you may have to mix a couple of colors to get the right one. I just did a piece where I used one part modern mahogany mixed with two parts brown mahogany. You can add natural stain to a color to lighten it.

   I mix up the stains and use a large syringe to measure with. That way you can make small batches to sample. To be able to see the final color, you have to take your samples all the way to a finish coat. Small parts, such as chair stretchers don't show that much. You don't have to be perfect, just relatively close. I often use a paste varnish on items like chairs, no runs, drips, quick drying, simple but durable. It has a look that is appropriate for older furniture.

   http://www.vandykes.com/product/02236129/

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 17, 2008 11:31pm | #6

   I've had problems with dye not penetrating inside the pores of oak, but never on mahogany.  Any it's not a major problem at all.  There are two solutions--first is merely to follow the dye with a pigmented stain.  That lodges in the pores and covers any area that where the dye didn't take.  That's my usual solution.  The other is use the right dye.  ArtiPorin brand dye is made specifically for that situation.  It's available through Highland Hardware. 

   Dye is often the only way to achieve a dark color without just painting on stain.  It isn't quite as light fast as most pigments, but used under a pigmented stain, the color change is off set considerably.  Besides, most readily available oil based stains mix dye with pigment anyway.  But combining them that way just reduces the flexibility. 

   I'd never what to just rule out using dye--its an amazingly flexible, easy to use product that is often the only way to achieve really professional results.  But it is only one tool in the arsenal. 

1. 
   hammer1 | Jul 18, 2008 02:37pm | #7

   There are a lot of issues around dyes, specifically water soluble aniline dyes. My first thought is toward the poster. He's keeping an old chair on the job not making a reproduction masterpiece. He's talking about re-making some broken stretchers. I don't see any reason for a finishing schedule that is complicated or may present problems, particularly for a first time user.Water dyes raise the grain. They can bleed into subsequent coats, stain or a top coat, they don't color the pores on many open grained species including mahogany. In other species, they may cause blotching. Neither stains or dyes actually penetrate the surface of wood very much but solvent stains are more readily accepted than water dyes. Simple wood stains are available almost anywhere, dyes are a specialty item. You can darken and enhance stains by applying additional coats. You don't use them like paint. You don't need dye for a dark color, just the right color stain. None of the professional shops I've worked in use dyes, They are too problematic and labor intensive. Results are inconsistent and they don't do anything that stains don't do. I've used both for many years. If I'm looking for blue, green or pink, dyes are one of the few choices. As far as more traditional wood colors, they don't offer anything that stains don't. They have just become trendy due to some magazine articles. Real world applications soon show dyes short comings and complications.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match