Got a question for all of the hand tool knotheads. I am in the market for an adjustable mouth low angle block plane. Currently in the running are Veritas and Lie-Nielsen 60 1/2. The difference in price is $31 which is not an issue. Any suggestions? Any other brands I should be looking at?
Thanks,
Greg
Replies
Get the LN rabbet block. It does everything a normal block does, but lots more too.
Hi Greg
The LN and LV LA Adjustable block planes are the best you can buy. They are, however, quite different in concept. Both are excellent, however one will suit you better than the other, and it is important that you handle them since the desicion is personal.
The LV is significantlyn wider and heavier than the LN. I actually prefer the size of the LN, which I purchased, but I also own the LV, which was a gift. The LV is the better design by far - easier blade adjustment, and more secure blade setting. It also is capable of accepting various accessories, such as a tote and knob to convert it into a BU #3, and a kit to convert it into a campher plane. It would be my personal choice if it were narrower (and I have an average size hand), but I went for the LN because it just felt the better size. Others feel differently about this.
If you can't run to one of these two block planes, the next on the list are the two (three) smaller block planes from both LN and LV. LV have the Apron Plane, while LN have the #102 (LA) and #103 (standard angle). These are very nice. I own the #103 in bronze. It has amazing authority for its size. Well worth looking at even though they are not adjustable mouth block planes.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Having at least one of all block planes suggested and several of some not mentioned, I'll pipe in here: block planes are very personal extensions of your hands and arms. One person's love is another person's hate.
For me (I take a golf glove size L, and it is a tad loose) my favorite block plane, bar none is a vintage Stanley 60-1/2. Next would be the LN 102, then the LN low angle block, then the Stanley 65 knuckle, then Stanley 18, Stanley 15, Stanley 65 regular cap, LV, LN 60-1/2R (I nick my fingers a lot with this one and do not like that!) and so on (did I mention that I like planes?). As I said I have at least one of each of these and in some cases multiple. I also have a LN #1 bench plane that I use as a block plane--easy to wrap my hand around for great control.
I would suggest trying a couple on for size if you can. If you can't, I would opt for a vintage Stanley 60-1/2 and put a Hock (or other aftermarket) blade in it. Make sure the bottom is flat with no hollows (especially the area immediately in front of the blade). If you want to start new, I feel the LN 102 or 103 in bronze is a great value for the dollar.
T.Z.
Skip it. I'm not sure what these planes are good for or why they are popular. If it's your only plane and you need to carry it around in your pocket, or use it one handed, I guess it makes sense. Otherwise, get a good smooth plane.
Adam
Adam,
Though I don't always agree with your thoughts, I always enjoy reading your posts. You have a way of not taking anything for granted and not being afraid to go against the grain, so to speak. While it's not necessary to reinvent the wheel, it's certainly wise to question if it really is the best solution. Hey, if it works...Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Thanks Chris. I appreciate that. Adam
Adam,
How effective is a smoothing plane on end grain? I'm thinking dovetails, box joints and possibly cutting boards.
Thanks,
Greg
Works fine. Try it out. I even prefer the cambered blade to zip off high spots. A couple of us were chatting in Pennsbury Manor several months back. One of the guys was planing end grain with a coffin smoother. I teased him saying that you can't plane end grain with a high angle plane (suggesting what he was doing was impossible). He said he's been working for 30 years by hand and hasn't used his block plane for the last 25. And then around the joinery the other woodworkers all said the same thing. I have a LV. Its the only new plane I ever bought. It's just beautiful. I also have a number of vintage stanley's 9-1/4's etc. They are fine tools all. But I find little use for them. They have their uses to be sure. I just don't think its a good first plane or a good fifth plane. It may be a great tenth plane.Adam
But Adam,
There is a place for all these vintage planes! You need to do as I do and give them shelf space, otherwise, they'd just end up as scrap metal headed to the Pacific Rim to be regurgitated and returned to us via one of the big box stores.
Basically the use of a plane is in the eyes of the beholder, and what we learned and are comfortable with. As an analogy, when I used to work for a living, first as a carpenter's apprentice and then as a journeyman, I would not envision a time when I would denigrate power tools for handsaws, chisels, planes etc. I viewed all handtools as being neanderthal and a step backwards. As we learn what works for us, we have defined for us our work methods. Our forebears would laugh at our approach today to sharpening, etc., and our unending attempts to bring technology to everything we do and in the process ignoring that a simpler process may be a quicker and better process.
My shop methods differ from everyone, but at the moment they work for me. Two years from now, maybe I'll be using one of the coffin smoothers I have for endgrain work. But if I do, I'll still retain my "accumulation" of toys, I mean tools!
T.Z.
How effective is a smoothing plane on end grain? I'm thinking dovetails, box joints and possibly cutting boards.
There is no rule that says a block plane must be low angle, or that end grain is only cut with a low angle plane.
For some time my go-to plane for the shooting board was a 60 degree bed HNT Gordon Trying Plane. It did a very good job - just not as smooth a cut as some other planes, but very acceptable, and a nice plane to use in this way.
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My favourite block plane is the LN bronze #103, which has a standard angle (20 degree) bed. With a 25 degree bevel on the blade, the angle of attack is 45 degrees - the same as the average Stanley smoother.
I am fond of telling the story that I bought this plane thinking that I had purchased the #102 (the low angle version). I would marvel at its ability to cut end grain. Just wonderful. Then one day I took a closer look (wearing my reading glasses) at the inscription ... #103!
Regards from Perth
Derek
Thanks for all of the replies and I thought that this was going to be an easy pick. I guess when I was thinking about this, it was to be for a specific job but Adam kind of changed that way of thinking. If the smoothing plane will get the job done on end grain, I would also have a plane (which I currently don't have) to do an excellent job on the rest of the wood projects.
I have been using hand planes for about 2 years and have some hand me downs from relatives. A Bailey Stanley #5 both smooth and corrugated sole from my wife's father and grandfather, a Millers Falls from my Dad and last year I purchased a LN medium shoulder plane. I also have some small block planes that I got at flea markets. These are OK but not quality. I have been amazed since I jointed this group that there are so many different planes out there and some are for some very specific jobs.
Thank you all for the ideas,
Greg
Actually it is quite easy--it's the rest of us that are complicating it! Get a plane and start using it. If it doesn't work then figure out what it takes to make it work (lot's of books out there to tell you how). Only then will you learn your likes and dislikes. Right now, you are only being influenced by the rest of us!
T.Z.
Tony,
I have been using a few for about 2 years and getting fairly good at it. I have taken them apart, tuned up the soles and can get a pretty sharp iron using diamond plates and a leather strop. I just wanted some input from others like what type plane would be good on end grain.
Greg
Hi Greg,
I'm sure both are great planes and it comes down to a matter of personal preference - how it looks and feels in your own opinion. That said, have you considered finding a good old Stanley 60-1/2? I got one about a year ago, spent an hour cleaning/tuning it, and it is my favorite. They come around fairly regularly on ebay.
I own 5 block planes... a little excessive, maybe (and if my father's day hints are taken I may be owning a LN 102 in about a week.)
Someone mentioned the LN Rabbiting Block Plane. I have it and love it. But disagree that it is an all in one block plane. It does not have an adjustable mouth and is set up so that the mouth is very much closed. It excels at planing cross grain and right into the shoulder when cleaning up tenons or lap joints and is a great tool; just not an all around block plane in my humble opinion.
Good luck with your new plane, whichever you select.
Frank
Greg,
Gotta throw my votes in there with Tony & Frank. I have had both the Stanley 60 1/2 and the L.N. low angle block planes for many years. The one I reach for most of time is the Stanley. It is much quicker to adjust the blade depth on it.
Greg
I have the Lie-Nielsen and love it. You can buy it from Fine Tool Journal (finetoolj.com) for $135 and free shipping. Tom
I have the LN low angle block plane you mentioned as well as the Rabbeting block plane (one can never have to many planes or clamps) and I like them both but the rabbeting plane can cut you if you don't hold it carefully because it is really easy for your hand or fingers to run into the corners of the blade where they come out the side. If you can handle both the LN plane and the LV plane I would do that and see which feels best in your hand.
Troy
Greg,
You'll be happy with either. Both companies make great tools. As most people have pointed out, the best way to decide would be to actually hold both. So really it's a matter of personal preference; anybody that places one of above the other is just looking for validation of their own preferences.
The important thing, get one and start using it.
Buster
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