And need some advice..
Im stuck in deciding on a table saw. I just missed a sale on the ridgid cast iron table saw for 450 instead of 600 and just missed a delta 1.75 hp hybrid table saw that was 200 off down to 700.
I am looking to build a small woodworking shop in order to do 3 things in the next few years.
1- build a shed
2- rebuild my deck
3- get started into woodworking- specifically some small tables and shelves as a start so I guess accuracy is needed.
I was giving myself a budget of about 500-600$. I have a big single garage, but I have a lot of mechanic tools so space is at premium. I was hoping one of those folding portable table saws would do the job, but I have a feeling from the research Ive done that a regular table saw with larger work area is needed.
I am leaning towards the ridgid 3650 based on reviews, price(hopefully can get a sale soon) and lifetime warranty.
Any opinions and advice you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated, I dont want to regret my purchase.
Many thanks!
Replies
I have an older Rigid table saw and have gotten pretty good use out of it. One of the problems I have had is related to the low horsepower. At 1 1/2 hp it often stalls when ripping a long board or a thick board. I get more burn marks from the blade than I would prefer. Trying to order anything other than a blade can also be difficult. If you don't have a good dust collector you will spend a lot of time cleaning up.
It's pretty stable but I would prefer a larger table. Tilting the blade accurately is difficult without a digital gauge. I purchased an after market miter gauge also to improve crosscutting.
I've had the saw for several years and use it often. I am however planning on getting a new table saw within the year.
I think the Rigid will work for all of your projects, however unless they've improved it a bit you may have a few problems with it as well.
Good luck,
Jim
Edited 1/17/2009 1:10 am ET by James R.
adroga,
I'm going to throw a big opinion at you: For your projects, you should start out with a portable saw so you can take it to the job site. For furniture and the like, farther down the project list, the portable will do with the inclusion of a workbench, planer and (hopefully) a bandsaw. Space will be an issue.
Regardless of your TS choice (portable, hybred, cabinet) all wood cuts can be imporved at the workbench and for joinery it's a necessity.
The local HDs usually have a good tool sale in mid-February.
I've been looking in the same price range for awhile. I would definitely get the Ridgid over the Delta, but also would consider the Sears zip-code saw, which is deeply discounted often.
You are in a good position to start looking at Festool.
The TS 55 EQ rail saw would be a great start. Great saw for parting up sheet goods(shed), crosscutting studs, cutting rafters, floor joists, and very portable. And it's a BIG space saver !!
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
The typical contenders in your price range are traditional full size cast iron contractor saws like the Ridgid 3650 (HD)or Delta 36-980 (Lowes).
Ridgid is introducing a new hybrid called the R4511 for $599 that looks like it'll be worth waiting a couple of weeks for. The hybrid format in general is an evolution of the traditional contractor saws that addresses most, if not all of the known problems caused by having the motor hanging out the back....space, DC, lifting hazards, longer belt, etc, plus it offers cabinet mounted trunnions, a riving knife, granite top, larger handwheels, a steel t-square fence, and a bunch more mass. Here's a pic album from one of the early owners:
http://s540.photobucket.com/albums/gg349/Ashman_bucket/
Other possible hybrid contenders are the Jet Proshop, Steel City, Craftsman 22124, GI, Grizzly, or Shop Fox.
I'd agree with the idea that a table saw isn't the best tool for the shed and deck projects. A decent circular saw and a guide system for sheet goods might be the better choice, perhaps combined with a (portable) sliding miter saw for studs and such.
Although there is much to admire in a good cabinet saw with an ample outfeed table, they don't fit well in a confined shop space. For small projects, a smaller, well-tuned contractor-style (or, benchtop) table saw may be far more convenient. And, in that regard, you might also want to consider the used market. A few $hundred saved on the saw could be applied to buying wood.
Edited 1/17/2009 12:36 pm by RalphBarker
wow...First off thanks for the great replies, lots to think about. My first real project will be the woodworking (as in tables/shelves) with the shed/deck later on. Ive considered a portable one for the fact I can move it to my backyard while working, but I think the majority of my projects will be in the garage on small furniture and woodworking projects. I wish I had a lowes in my area(doesnt exist in quebec).. I would also consider a deeply discounted craftsman. My budget is limited, but if can spend a little more and result in a tool that will last me longer and have more uses I am all for it.Confined or not, my larger single garage will be redone when I have purchased the tools and a spot will be made for them.Anxiously waiting for a HD sale.... : )
Agree with the portable contractor for your project but from the standpoint of getting a better table saw later you might consider instead a chop saw with a good stand (Stablemate ?sp is a good one) and a cutting guide like EZSmart for sheet goods. Then, when you get your shop, you will have these at not too much cost and can then get a beefier table saw. Low HP "bog downs" are very frustrating.
Agree with most everything said here. Built my first deck last fall and only needed a miter saw, my festool circular saw & guide system and a good impact drill (actually, the inexpensive and tiny BOSCH PS40-2A did a great job in black locust - the toughest of local woods - although it is a 10.8 V Li-Ion driver. But the impact mechanism is the key - and it is very light and great to maneuver esp if you work in limited space from underneath like I did). OK and a jigsaw for the stair stringer but you can buy them ready-made if you want a standard size.With all the money you save by building a deck yourself maybe you can justify a miter saw, decent table saw and a guide system circular saw. Don't frustrate yourself by buying too cheap a tool.
Edited 1/18/2009 8:53 am ET by Pezzi
I don't know what is best for you but what I did was buy a cheap portable ts and used that for a few years until I knew what I wanted. I have trouble recomending a contractors saw to anyone because my cheap portable saw has the same hp and dust collection and cuts well. A nice saw will help with accuracy but you can get accurate cuts with a cheap saw. I wouldn't by a contractors or hybred saw unless I was sure that I didn't want to upgrade latter.
Ive considered that but the consensus seems to be that I wont be able to make accurate cuts and limited to the size of wood I can cut with a small table saw.I dont want to waste 200$ only to spend 600$ more later on, but at the same time if I could build my coffee tables and use it for what I need I would consider buy a small cheaper table saw.
There have been some really great opinions expressed here and I think I can see the logic and sense behind them too. It's certainly true that a circular saw or sliding type mitering saw with a stand will do a lot of work, and I have bought both while collecting my equipment over the years. On the other hand, they will not take the place of a table saw, if you are going to do carpentry as a hobby, and very soon you will want to buy one or a bandsaw (or both :-)). So, in the event, you decide to get a table saw, I just want to second Adroga's opinion about portability. I've had a Bosch 10 inch 15 amp Table saw with the folding stand for many years. I bought it when my wife and I were doing the renovation from hell, in addition to a fair amount of rough building, while moving up here to the farm. It has been really nice being able to move the saw outside to do my cutting. My shop isn't all that big (14X24 with a 7X24 extension being completed this year.) and I do a lot of different things in it in addition to carpentry. So, being outside makes it a little easier to manipulate big awkward things like sheets of plywood. I have also never completely solved the dust problem. With a large extrusion fan, it still takes 1/2 hour or so to get the fine dust out of the air when using the shop vac hooked to the saw to catch the sawdust while cutting. So cutting outside in good weather reduces shopdust inhalation and cleanup. Certainly there are bigger and better saws, but I don't feel that I'm giving up all that much by going portable and it has worked for me. Just my $0.02, of course.
Adroga,One thing that might be a bit tricky for you to envision is how the TS contributes functionally to your woodworking experience. You have mentioned quality cuts, so you recognize the vibration free cast iron of a cabinet saw and powerful blade has value. Also, it's important to note the cabinet saw is best designed for outfeed tables that support the stock through the cuts, that contributes to quality too. When not cutting, the cabinet saw and outfeed table are useful for stock staging, assembly and even finishing. I mentioned this because you indicated your space is limited. My outfeed table folds down and the whole cabinet saw can be rolled away.When it comes to cabinet saws, remember, that no matter what you pay, your more than likely to get your money back.
Since you seem to be adaptable in both budget and space why not spend $400 - $500 on a used cabinet saw. Put it on a mobile base and you will have all the saw you will ever need.
You mentioned that you have a lot of mech. tools; I would assume therefore that you are at least a fair-to-middlin' mech. Table saws are not rocket science! Even if they need bearings or other work, it is well within the scope of someone who knows the difference between a socket wrench and an open end.
After you build your new shop (right after the deck, furniture and new kitchen cabinets) you can take the saw off the mobile base and build huge outfeed tables with router lifts build in etc.
A cabinet saw on a mobile base does not take up THAT MUCH more room than a contractor saw and it will do SO MUCH MORE.
Best of luck on getting started!!
Mack"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
I went with a Bosch 4000 table saw. I looked at the Ridgid but the Bosch was more portable. Pros:
It runs incredibly smooth. It has electronic circuitry to maintain RPMs of the blade.
Everything was adjusted correctly right out of the box.
Fence works great.
Splitter adjusts with blade height.
Stand is a cinch to fold and unfold.
Storage on unit for miter gauge, fence and blade wrench.Cons:
Miter gauge has too much play (I use a sled most of the time).
The alloy table isn't dead flat although it is pretty good.
The guard/splitter removal requires an allen wrench (which is stored on the saw).The newer 4100 has a couple more features like a t-slot for the miter gauge.
Mack,
Well said.
I bought an old Unisaw recently and couldn't be happier. This saw is over 37 years old and runs like a top and has plenty of power. The table isn't all that much bigger than a contractors and it's built like a tank.
And with a few sleds you all manner of crosscuts.
Perhaps the best of all is you won't likely need to upgrade for a loooonnnnngggg time.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
I got my Unisaw a few years ago and turns out it was made the same month and year I was born (7/50). I got it real cheap and was going to just clean it up and resell it but once I got that bit of news I decided it was an omen. It is now the saw for the rest of my life!
Regards,
Mack"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
On the miter saw - to build a deck a regular 10" saw can be a pain - crosscutting 10x2 or 12x2 comes to mind (having to flip the boards to complete a wide cut etc.). It was a good excuse to upgrade to a 10" slider. If you need the tool and plan to use it regularly spend the money - so far I only regret having spent too little on some tools and then it's difficult to replace them because the cheap ones sorta kinda work. I know, that's a whole separate discussion.
and then it's difficult to replace them because the cheap ones sorta kinda work. I know, that's a whole separate discussion.
I have tons of those tools! .. and then it's difficult to replace them because the cheap ones sorta kinda work.. LOL.. Hit the nail right on my head and then some! How true...
I have a t4100 Bosch that I found on sale at Sears for 350 reduced from 600. No complaints thus far. I've ripped 2.5 in hard maple with no problems.MRR
We have a twenty five year old craftsman contractor saw. It has good power and after I tuned it up and added a good fence it works very well. We use it every day. I have a D.C. system attached which pulls 90% of the dust and with a good blade it does not burn wood. It will work well for rips, even plywood up to 23" wide. You also might look for a chop saw (power miter saw) Get a good 10". You don't need a sliding saw as most of your cuts will be 2 by 4 or 2 by 6. We all have skil saws in our trucks but if we have more than a few cuts to make we set up the chop saw as it is more acccurate. For building a shed and rebuilding a deck you need the chop saw more than the table saw but a good table saw is a valuable addition to any shop.
For the projects you have in mind consider a sliding compound mitre saw,more useful and portable in a building role for shed and decks etc and a portable saw and guide rails for ripping and sheet goods.
Regards from Australia
You can make it fool proof but not idiot proof
I was in your position when I bought my first house. The main tools I used after Gutting the House were;
Chop Saw- for trim, Studs, Shelving, Flooring, and just about every other crosscut.
Ryobi 10" Fold-up Tablesaw- Ripping stock for jambs and wainscoting.
I am now delving, like you , into making furniture and find the following needs,
Jointer, Planer, and more accurate tablesaw. But the one think to think about is if you will be ripping sheet stock or plank stock. I think since i will be making cabinets, it may be cheaper and more efficient to buy the Festool guide saw. The only downside is that you are limited to the width of stock you can rip. In your case, the shed and deck will not warrant a good tablesaw so plan your purchase on your furniture making.
Also, there is a great jig that uses your existing circular saw to make a zero clearance cutting guide. http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/subscription/Workshop/WorkshopArticle.aspx?id=3421
I at one time had a Ryobi 3000? something like that number. I ran hugh amounts of cedar, pine and 1 inck oak throught it. I LOVED that little so called crap saw! I never had to change the original blade that came with it...
As to the guide you posted. Works perfectly! I use one for cutting ply all the time. I place the sheet on 2 inch thick rigid foam insulation.. 4X8 sheets I think they are?
Looking around can pay off. These items just popped up on Craig's List in South Bend:
Delta unisaw 115 / 230 volt Vega fence, 3 blades, router table built in,tenoning jig, blade guard, miter fence $ 650
Delta 8" jointer 115 /230 model 37-315 66" long bed $ 650
Jet DC1200 dust collector 230 volt only $ 200.00
Dewalt DW734 planer includes dust hood $ 275
Bosch router table on Bosch stand with Bosch 1637evs router also includes plunge base $ $ 250
Powermatic 30b 12" disc 6" belt sander 115/230 volt $ 375
I have one of the original Ridgid table saws. The ONLY thing I do not like about it is the dust collection is not that good AND that dang motor hangs off the back! Other than that it is a joy to use. Yes, I have used better saws BUT not what I coiuld afford!
If you are leaning towards a portable the Bosch 4100-09 is the way to go. I started the exact same way you want to. Hope this doesn't come off cocky but I built a house and small garage/workshop and have gotten into woodworking since. Building an Eisel and fire place mantel from solid oak were the most recent projects. The Bosch 4100-09 is accurate, has a decent amount of power, and the largest rip capacity . It boasts 4HP@ 15amps (I believe that to be peak though). The dust port works well with a shop vac and good filter. Some other points to consider. It is very productive for construction projects as you can move it right to your work area, set up some horses and your in the mix. If you do have the room and plan on doing more woodworking then construction projects though, I would try to spend the extra cash on a hybrid saw. Hope this helped.
Rick G
I am new to woodworking, you know, done stuff over the years like rooms in the house, like finishing a bathroom, doing the basement, have built a few decks and fences...but I'm new to woodworking. I was searching for a table saw. I have my garage to work in, it's 20ftx20ft...so, needed something smallish. After looking around, I really liked the Rigid 10in heavy duty portable(the model is TS2410LS). It was going for about $499 (Cdn dollars)...and now around $449 I think. However, in the first week of January, I was in HD for something and noticed they had a sale on. The saw was $349 for 1 week, plus a $10 coupon. So I got the thing for $339 Cdn (that's about $270US dollars at the time of this posting). Not a bad deal I thought! I got it. Send in the registration card for a lifetime warranty.
What I like. Right out of the box, I stood it up on it's portable stand, EASY, had a look at it's level...and bam...it was right on (no kidding). Then I adjusted the fence to make a 7.5" cut on a piece of 2" thick walnut, it was butter...and according to my digital caliper, which measure to a 64th, it was dead on 7.5". I was very happy. I also like that the table is not steel..don't remember what metal it is offhand, so, no rust or oiling to contend with. It has a guard with riving knife and these other anti-kickback wings with teeth...which I liked...because I am paranoid of kickback...it's my first tablesaw...I think a bit of intimidation is healthy.
What I think could be better. I don't like where the on/off switch is. I wish it were out more so you didn't have to reach kind of under to turn it on and off. My bro in law has a bosch...it's nice...and about $1000, but his on/off he can kick with his knee which I thought was a nice thing.
Anyway...for the price...I certainly think it is a good deal.
Why dont you look at some auctions of woodworking shops or estate sales that are closing down - tools are usually in great shape and very reasonable prices!!!!
It'll be a great first saw. Bob
Adroga,
Great opinions all here! I think Mackwood made the best point. No, not the government work remark, the fact that a nice table saw on a mobile base is something you will not outgrow for years to come. Look at the 2009 Tool Guide from Taunton Press. On pages 62 & 63 note the simularity of the Craftsman, Delta, Steel City and Woodtek. Do they look alike? They are all manufactured by Orion of Taiwan. They are all around $1000 with much the same components. Sears has frequent sales and a $80 five year protection plan. Three features that the Craftman saw has over the others are a tilt-up outfeed table, a decent clamping mitre fence and best of all, a real Biesemeyer rip fence. Remember, a belt driven saw will far out perform a direct drive motor/blade.
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