Hi. It is time to replace some old cordless drills. I was thinking 14-18v, 28 v (Milwaukee) tops, lithium ion and a combo pack. The Makitas are light but I have heard some concerns about the chuck, maybe durability. Panasonic has a 14.4 v series which lists higher torque values than the 18 v Makita. What experiences do you have with lithium ion drills? How about with these manufacturers? Or others? What about discounters? Amazon, Northwest, Coastal, Tools-Plus: any preferences?
Thanks everyone,
Marty
Replies
Dear Marty,
I am a contractor and use all types of tools everyday and I see what works and what doesn't. The Makita 18 "Compact" gun is the tool of choice. It has been a long time since I have seen a tool that gets "borrowed" so much on the jobsite. Lightweight, relatively inexpensive, powerful and tough, it is a winner. I thought that the light was dumb until the first time these aging eyes had to screw a cabinet in place and I could actually see what I was doing. As for the chuck, no complaints here it is the gun that I use to sink ledgerloks (1/4" lags) up to 8" with no predilling and no problems. I have had mine for close to a year now, I think, and can only rave about it. As to suppliers:
1) Amazon
2) Tools Plus
3) Coastal Tool, although I didn't see the "compact" unit listed
Best,
John
Edited 10/22/2007 7:52 am ET by Jmartinsky
<<3) Coastal Tool, although I didn't see the "compact" unit listed>>John,Is this the one you are referring to:Makita BTD142HW 18V Compact Impact Driver Kit
with Lithium-Ion TechnologyI found it on the Coastal site:
http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/a/makita/btd142hw.htm?L+coastest+fgvm6389ff94e094+1193041214I'm right around the corner from Coastal and they are the best -- great prices, product knowledge and customer service. I jumped at the Porter Cable compressor, brad and finish nailers combo deal they ran a few years ago. When I brought the stuff the to the counter at Coastal, the guy behind it told me that I could get the same deal plus a stapler or pin nailer for the same price across the street at Home Depot. How up front is that? I've never done anything online with them (no need to), but I would guess they are just as good to deal with there. Tools Plus are good people as well-- just a longer drive for me. Mike
Dear Mike,
No, that's not the gun. That's the impact driver. This is the gun:http://www.tools-plus.com/makita-bdf452hw.htmlI would imagine that Coastal carries, it, or can get it, they just may not have it listed on their site. I have always found Coastal to be top notch, as you have. I have been buying from them for close to twenty years now. Best,John
Thanks, John. That's a strong endorsement for the drill. I've had great luck with all Makita products. I may have to get me one of them there 18 volt bad boys.mike
Dear Mike,
Over the years, I have developed some very definite opinions about different manufacturer's. Makita is a company who has certain tools that I think define the "standard":1) Jobsite tablesaw... up until a few years ago, they had this cold. The 8 1/4" was "Gold standard" in its time.2) 3 1/4" power-planer.... developed in the 80's and no one has been able to improve upon it.
BUT:1) Makita router..... no thanks
2) Cordless drill/driver.... again, I'll pass. That is, up until this offering. I VERY reluctantly bought the Black & White Makita, but have been very surprised and impressed.Best,John
John,It's funny how a manufacturer can get some things so right, and others not so much -- at least to my liking. I've had great luck with Makita cordless driver/drills, though the 9 volt I bought 20 or so years ago had a wimpy chuck that was kind of a pain -- I liked everything else about it though. On the other hand, I had a 1/2" drill that lasted only a few years. I have the power planer you mentioned and it's great -- probably 15 years old or more with no problems. Then there is the chop saw -- cast iron base which weighs a ton and the brake that almost never works properly. I bought it back in the 80s and can't bring myself to spend the money to replace it, but more and more it's an expensive door stop. But anyway, thanks for the tip on the new 18 volt drill. A recommendation from someone who beats on a tool everyday carries some weight.Mike
Dear Mike,
My pleasure. It's funny that you mention the old Makita 10" chopsaw. I was just talking to someone about that. What a great tool at the time. I probably couldn't part with it either. We couldn't remember if it had an iron base or not, I was pretty sure that it did. I remember it as being HEAVY. My 13 year old power-planer died upon ingesting a screw. It ran great right up to a rather exciting exit. My new one is just as good. Best,John
Thanks for the quick response John. That's a greathelp. I heard that the green colored tools were for pros while the black tools are for consumers. Do you know if that is true?
Marty
Dear Marty,
To my knowledge, Makita doesn't make a "homeowner" line. I work professionally and can tell you that if it will break, we will break it, and these things don't break. We are not kind to our tools, we don't abuse them (much), but we work in the real world where things get dropped, stepped upon, overheated and rained on. I use that gun for everything from pre-drilling with a 1/16" bit to driving lag bolts, with no fuss at all. It works as advertised which is more than I can say for a lot of products. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised.Best,John
Thanks again John. I am going to keep my eye out for sales. Do you use any impact drivers
--Marty
Dear Marty,
I do not use impact drivers and I am a bit mystified as to their "popularity" (?) I'm not even sure if they are all that popular or not, as I have seen only one plumber using one, in the past four or five years. From what I've seen, they are loud, (very loud), and do not do anything special. If I was spending hours sinking lags, I might consider one, but then again, I'm not sure why. In a very high torque application, say driving 8" or 10" lag bolts, I might switch to a corded 1/2" drill, but only if there were a lot to do, say more than 10. Otherwise, these new cordless drill/drivers are great. When driving long screws, say 3-4" I've never felt the need for more "twist". I use square drive screws exclusively, so cam-out is not an issue. There are days, say if I am screwing down a floor that is be tiled, that I might sink 300 2" screws. I can't say that I can see any real advantage to an impact driver. If someone comes up with an actual advantage of an impact gun, let me know.Best,John
John,
From my experience, I see a couple of advantages to the impact drivers. A few years back, I picked up a 12V Makita off of a mark-down table and am very impressed. Yes. It is noisy; its biggest disadvantage. However, I used to swear at phillips head screws because everything I tried to drive them with would usually cam out if they got stubborn. The impact driver will stay in the slots and either seat the screw or twist it off (if you persist). While doing this, it feeds very little torque back to your wrist. I repeat. This is only a 12 volt driver. This is a lot of twist for a realitivly small light tool. An 18V or larger impact driver must be a beast. Before I got the Makita I was putting some exterior screws into a deck hand rail system. There were a couple of screws (phillips head) that just would not go all the way down and, of course, they wouldn't come out. Fortunately, they were in an out-of-the-way place and I just left them. I came back later with the Makita and it drove them home, shrugged, and asked "whats the problem"? I like it.
Bill
I also love my 12volt system. The good news is the 18volt is as controllable as the 12.
Dear Bill,
I can see your point, which is why I swore off philips head screws a good 10 years ago. For, me I don't see the point in having another $200.00 tool, just to drive a 2 cent screw, in particular when it is pretty much a dedicated screwdriver. Yes, it can be bastardized into drill with a bunch of attachments, but again, this is a rather poor solution. My guess is that the impact drivers will go away at one point, or be a "niche" tool. In particular, as the power of the new cordless guns increase, the need (want?) of an impact gun should lessen. A square drive screw is a wonderful thing compared to a philips screw. It stays on the tip, no magnetics needed. It pretty much never cams out, give one a try.Best,John
"In particular, as the power of the new cordless guns increase, the need (want?) of an impact gun should lessen."
It's not really about power; my DeWalt 18V drill has a lot more power than my Bosch 10.8V impact driver. Rather, it's about control, the ability to carefully sink a 3" hardened steel screw into hard maple, or a 1/2" brass finish screw into soft pine, and in either case stop just as the head contacts the wood.
-Steve
Dear Steve,
Well, OK, mabe. I can't say that I've ever had control issues as to driving screws and I would think that a solid brass screw would be the last fastener that I would want to drive, via power. As to a 3" hardened screw into maple, we are talking pre-drilling anyway, or either the screw or the maple is going to lose. If I have to pre-drill, then I need a drill anyway, and the pre-drill eliminates quite a bit of the torque needed to sink a screw, therefore increasing my ability to drive it accurately. The Makita has a brake on it, so it stops on a dime. If it works for you, that's fine, but for me, I'm not sold. Best,John
John,
I don't totally disagree with you. Square drive is great, but where I live about the only way to get them is through mail-order. I haven't found anyone locally that carries them. However, philips head screws are found everywhere in any size you want. The impact driver makes them usable not so much due to the twisting ability, but due to the fact that it doesn't cam out. I now use screws in a lot of places I used to use nails. I agree that the cost is high and I probably wouldn't have one today if the price hadn't been real good. Although prices do seem to be coming down as more makers have them. As for drilling, I just slip in a hex drive drill bit and go. No sweat.
Bill
Dear Bill,
OK, that makes sense, if I were in that situation, I might take the same approach. Does the thing hammer away while drilling?Best,John
John,
Yes and no. If the drilling is easy and you are not bearing down, it doesn't hammer. If the going gets tough it will. A switch to turn the hammer on/off would be a nice feature
To add to my last post; keep in mind that this is the only battery tool I own. In general, I would rather mess with extension cords than put up with charging batteries and the cost of replacement (I just did the replacement and it was expensive). I don't usually work very far from a power source. Although, I admit, since I''ve got it, there are times when I reach for it rather than my corded drill. For power driving screws, its the only tool there is.
Bill
"My guess is that the impact drivers will go away at one point, or be a "niche" tool."
Not in my toolbox! The drills are gathering dust -- the impact drivers are used constantly. Phillips, square, torx, you name it, the impact driver is simply the better tool for driving fasteners. Not only does it do a better job of keeping the bit in the screw, it'll drive tight screws better, and snap fewer off. My smallest impact driver will outperform my biggest drill for sinking screws, no question, and most of my work is square or torx-drive fasteners. (Note: by far, most of my screw use is more "construction" as opposed to "furniture".)
The only time I use a drill for driving screws is for pocket hole screws. With them, you can't really see the head to tell when it's fully seated, so I use a drill with the clutch set appropriately. I guess that makes my DRILL a "niche" tool. ;-)
My mantra used to be "drills are for making holes, impact drivers are for sinking screws." Now, I've seen on this site that more and more folks are using the impact driver for drilling holes too. They claim faster drilling with less torque to the wrist. I must admit, I'm tempted to buy a chuck to give it a try.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Edit: I just noted in your profile that you are in construction. Do yourself a favor and borrow an impact driver and take it for a test drive. I bet you'll be heading for the tool store the same day. Heck, I even use mine a lot hanging DW on old studs that are so "petrified" that they snap off screws with a DW gun. These tools are so much better, in so many ways, than drills for sinking screws. No question.
Edited 10/25/2007 7:24 am ET by MikeHennessy
Dear Mike,
Well, there you go, a man with a strong opinion! Mike, I am impressed with your enthusiasm and may be moved to believe that at least, in your shop, impact drivers have a home. You are correct, that I have been in construction for a little better than twenty years. Over the years, again, I have seen one impact driver, and although it was interesting, the noise alone is enough to keep me from using one. I have grown sensitive to noise and my hearing is no longer what it was, between the heavy metal of my youth and my choice of career paths. Mike, I'm glad that you like them, but for me, I will stick with the drill/driver. If someone should choose to bless me with the gift of an impact driver, then I suspect that I will be seeking you out, to pass along that gift! But, who knows? There was a guy who insisted that he would never eat green eggs and ham and he became a convert...........Best,John
Edited 10/25/2007 8:12 am ET by Jmartinsky
Mike,
One of the first things I did when I got my impact driver was buy a chuck for it. Makita sells one with the hex shank. I suppose most companies do. As with all Makita stuff, it was pricey. I recommend that instead you invest in a small set of hex shank drill bits. They are cheaper and more convenient to use. I was later given a small set and I now use the chuck only occasionally.
If you do buy a chuck, buy a good one and be sure it has the usual chuck key. Some don't have a chuck key and depend on you holding the chuck while spinning the drill to tighten/loosen the bit. This works most of the time. However, the impact action of the driver will sometimes jam the drill bit so tight that you will need the key to get it loose. Not a problem with the hex shank drills.
Bill
You are correct when you say that the hammer action can cause a bit to get so tight it just doesn't want to come out. Been there, done that, and have one keyless chuck with a 3/16 bit still in it.
"Been there, done that, and have one keyless chuck with a 3/16 bit still in it."
Keyless chucks usually have a hole in the side where you can insert a pin, and then whack the pin to loosen the chuck. In fact, my Panasonic drill even came with the whacking pin included.
-Steve
Marty,
My son and I were using some older 12v Dewalts in the shop that needed to be replaced. We bought 2 of the newer Makita 1.5 Ah white 18v drills. After using them for 2 months we went and bought 2 more because:
We have had three other trades guys try them out and 2 of the three bought the smaller Makita 1.5 Ah drills, the other guy bought the bigger 3.0 Ah Makita drill. We have used Dewalts for years - now we are confirmed Makita drill owners!! I think their engineers got this product right the first time. WE have had no issues with the chucks at all!
Bob in Calgary
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Thanks Bob. I am convinced.
--Marty
I recently (about 4 months ago) bought the Makita to replace two inexpensive B&D Firestorms that suffered from a variety of ills. I've had previous good luck with Makita - a work horse used in all situations. Got the B&D's as gifts and used until they died - rather prematurely if you ask me.
I use my Makita in the woodshop and around the house. No issues so far, good price point, works well, no complaints.
Thanks. I picked one up last night and will use it today.
Sincerely,
Marty
replace two inexpensive B&D Firestorms with Makita ?Apples and walnuts!
18v makita...
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