Lie-Nielson 60 1/2 Rabbet Block Plane
EricAnderson
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I have the Veritas medium shoulder plane and the Veritas bullnose plane (which I have not used as much as I thought I would). The Lie-Nielson 60 1/2 seems like a real nice way to trim tenons without using a medium shoulder plane and low angle block. I could do both jobs (I think) with just the 60 1/2.
However, I have made mistakes in my choices before. Those of you that own Lie-Nielson 60 1/2 Rabbet Block Planes, what do you think of them? Do they get used where you might have used a medium shoulder plane and a regular block plane in combo?
Here is a reference to the 60 1/2
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=60_5R
If I find a positive response, then my next question would be: Why hasn’t Veritas made one?
Replies
I looked at that plane also, looks interesting and you know you can never be to rich, to then or have to many nice planes. I have not tried this plane but the angle of the blade is looks like its much lower than a shoulder plane. On a side note I picked up a #10 1/2 Stanley rabbet plane at a estate sale for 11 bucks and was thinking it would work for the same thing. Have not had the chance to use it for that yet. I am sure some of the more experienced users could fill us in more. As to Veritas maybe they just have not gotten to a plane like that yet.
I have one and use it regularly but mostly as a block plane; haven't had many occasions to use it as a rabbet plane. That said, I like the plane a lot as would most who buy a LN but one feature that is missing AND SIGNIFICANT is that the mouth is nonadjustable. What this means essentially is you are somewhat limited in the cuts that you can take, ie. only very thin shavings. When I really want to get more material out, I use a regular block plane but I have to admit there are many times when I am fitting joints that I don't want to take much out so the 601/2 works perfectly. If I were to be buying my first LN I think I would go with a regular block plane for the reasons mentioned above. Hope this helps!
I've got one, and for paring tenon cheeks it is great. For shoulders, not so much. You can make it work, but I have been eyeballing the LV shoulder plane to back up the LN.
What size tenons are you trying to clean up and how much are you off? For cabinet and furniture work as well as timber work, I prefer to use a chisel to pare. I get much better control than with a knuckle buster.
Rabbeting planes have the knives that are open on the sides of the plane. With the small block planes, it's easy to grab them right on the corner of that blade. Tenon trim work is often done across the grain. Planes will tear out some of the wood when you exit the other side. A skew angled blade would be the best in this application. Paring with a chisel allows you to work in different directions with the grain.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer,
Regarding tear out on the back end of a tenon, I disagree only slightly. If you take a heavy cut, then YES, for sure. However, I've got the blade set for just a light cut, and have no issues with tear out. I work it back and forth, almost a sawing motion, and get nice fluffy fibre with no tearout.
For fitting, I usually am only taking 3-5 passes to get that tenon just right, hand tight.
I know you know this, but I'm saying it for the benefit of the poster.
Jeff
I have the 60 1/2 and the 60 1/2R. It is very good at trimming the face of a tenon, but it is limited when trimming the shoulder. I have used it as a block plane before but it pales in comparison to the 60 1/2. If I were to buy only 2 planes for tenon work it would be a 60 1/2 and a medium shoulder plane. Bottom line is ..... I have it so I use it, but I wouldn't recommend it.
I could do both jobs (I think) with just
SANDPAPER????
Eric
I have a LN rabbit block plane, which I use for trimming tennons. I also have a Clifton 410 which I love for shoulders and small tennons, where the LN is too wide and difficult to keep flat. They are both fantastic planes. I'm not sure my benchwork would be the same without either, or any of my planes, for that matter.
I used to always reach for a power tool. Now, I usually just reach for a plane. I use my power tools for milling, and the hand tools for finish work.
Jeff
The Clifton 410 looks to be a slightly narrower version of the Veritas medium shoulder plane. I use it, as you do, to trim shoulders. It is the best plane I have for the job. For tenons, it is a little narrow, but is good to trim the area next to the shoulder area of a tenon. I think what you and many of the others are saying (and I proposed the question about) is that the rabbet plane is the best for doing the tenon cheek. Now the question is, should my choice be the 60 1/2R? I think you-all are saying that it does the job well and, by the way, it is the less expensive plane from Lie-Nielson than the other choices such as the skew block plane.
I wish Veritas had one. I really like the way their planes handle. They have taken an age-old concept and put some extra thought into it and realized a substantial improvement in ease of use.
If your tenons are typically less than 1 3/8" long, then all you need to do is trim against the shoulder with a 1/8" chisel and then smooth the face with your block plane. The 60 1/2R is not a good block plane. So if you trim with a chisel a regular block will do a better job. Peter
Eric
I personally think that while the Veritas planes are very nice, they are a cut below the Lie Nielsen planes. Friends of mine who have bought them like them, but did so solely for cost reasons. They still wish for LN, but are satisfied with the Veritas.
In my opinion, spend the extra few bucks, and get the best. You're going to have it for the rest of your life, so it's a one time purchase.
Jeff
Lets get specific about Veritas vs. Lie Nielsen. I think it can be generally agreed that Veritas plane design has focused on ergonomics. I don't have a lot of experience with Lie-Nielsen planes, but the few I have held and used seem to pretty well match the older Stanley designs with little change in the intended methods of holding and using them. I really like the user friendliness designed into the Veritas planes.
Now, where are the Lie Nielsen planes better in construction? Would the construction differences be enough to be observed? I would be interested in specific details from users of both. Things like the quality of the actual work produced by the two planes out of the box and after a minor tuneup.
Eric
OK. I own 27 different tools from LN, mostly planes. Their fit and finish out of the box is outstanding. All the blades on the ones I've purchased have had perfectly flat backs, requiring only polishing. The soles of the planes have needed no lapping, as it was done by LN. My buddies veritas smoother needed to be lapped.
They took the original stanley bedrock design, and improved the manufacturing process so that the tool works as designed with very little to do for the user.
And for me, they look and feel fantastic, and are so easy to use. I have a near complete collection of old Stanley Bedrocks that are all tuned and ready to go, and the LN planes outperform them.
I have used my buddies Veritas, and he has used my LN's. I just like the LN better, but the Veritas IS a fine plane.
Jeff
Eric, I own several LN planes, and two Veritas. The Veritas planes are a scraping plane and a medium shoulder plane. I do not think that the shoulder plane can be beaten. It's just freaking perfect in my book, and we should note that it won both Best Overall *and* Best Value in a FWW review of shoulder planes, beating out both LN offerings.The scraping plane is another story. It functions quite well, and has features that no other scraping plane I know of has--specifically, that one can bow the blade, as one does with a card scraper. It also has a wider footprint than the competion. But......I don't like the handles. The finish isn't as smooth, and the curve is not as graceful; it doesn't feel as nice to the hand. And, since that's the part that you touch and feel, and since touching and feeling is a huge part of planing, it matters--at least to me. All Veritas bench planes appear to use the same handle design, as do all LN planes. I therefore have decided that I like LN handles far better than Veritas handles, for both appearance and touch-and-feel reasons.Would I choose a LN scraping plane if I had it to do all over? Well, I'd have to try 'em side by side, but probably not. In the end, as you've pointed out, it's function that counts, and that scraping plane works just fine (and I should point out that the documentation/instructions that came with the Veritas are top-notch.) Also, you cannot beat Lee Valley's customer service. Period.So, to answer your question: in my view the main difference in quality that I have noticed is the handles. Whether that matters to you--and whether is worth a particular difference in price-- is personal, of course.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
I just got my second 60 1/2 to replace one that was stolen with all my hand tools 8 months ago. It is wonderful and I use it as a block and a shoulder plane. I replaced it before some of the other tools and missed it for quite awhile before I could spend the money as I had to replace almost $4000 worth of lifelong hand and small power tools. I am thrilled to have it back-a marvelous tool with great feel and performance
I have it and use it for just that reason. It works great. Buy it if you can afford it.
Eric
I have LN 601/2 and use it for everything from cleaning up tennions to cleaning burn makes off the edges of cherry and hard maple. If you set it for a light cut I have no problems trimming across the grain
Well Eric, since you asked. I used to own a LV 4 1/2 smoother. I thought it was ok until I tried a LN 4 1/2. I then started thinking that something was wrong with my LV, because it couldn't take as fine a shaving. Turns out that the sole was out by 0.003 concave. This does not sound like much but it is close to the thickness of a piece of paper. It is difficult to take a 0.001 shaving [used for final SMOOTHING] when your plane is not flat enough to do so. I expressed my disappointment to LV customer service and they gladly took it back [they have the best customer service in the industry] They did mention however that the plane was in spec. You can actually see this for yourself at the LV website on the specs for the 4 1/2 smoother. If you look in the current issue of Fine Woodworking magazine Chris Gouchnor does an article on smoothing planes. He was disappointed in the Clifton smoother because it was concave by ..............you guessed it 0.003". Maybe 3 thou. is a big deal and maybe not. I feel that it is, and so does Mr. Gouchnor and David Charlesworth. I bought the LN 4 1/2 and I like it a lot. But as with all LN. planes..........the handles are too small. Peter
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