Replies

1. 
   Piccioni | May 23, 2006 10:55pm | #1

   I just watched the Rob Cosman DVD 'Rough to Ready'

   http://www.robcosman.com

   He shows how to sharpen the blade of the LN Scrub. Basically, after flatening the back like usual, you 'walk' the blade around the stone/whatever while rotating it. Whats important, as with any sharpening, is not the entire bevel, but just the cutting edge, so you kind of make small circles with the cutting edge against the stone and pivot the blade slowly. Hard to explain, but easy to see.

   Anyhow, Rob is a great guy, and I own almost all his DVDs - they are cheap and worth a lot more than he charges for them.

2. 
   BossCrunk | May 24, 2006 12:00am | #2

   Flatten the back as usual.  Then you sort of rock the blade as you move across the stone in order to maintain the cross-section of the blade.  You do not micro-bevel a scrub plane blade.  If you hone the entire bevel with the correct rocking motion you'll never have to re-grind the cutter (unless dinged by dropping, etc.) which can be a bid arduous on a scrub plane blade.

3. 
   John_D | May 24, 2006 12:06am | #3

   As Piccioni says, just put the bevel onto your coarse stone, draw back over and over while rocking it left and right to cover the whole working bevel of the blade.  Then put it flat on its back, and pull off the burr.  Do it all again on your fine stone, and you're done.

   Don't bother with a jig or anything fancy, this plane simply doesn't need the perfect edge you want on your other planes.  It's more like an ice cream scoop than a smoothing plane, remember. :)

   I'll also second his recommendation for the Rob Cosman video, Rough to Ready.  Good stuff for learning stock prep, it helped me a lot.  In particular, I got a much better idea of how to work the scrub, diagonally across the grain, from this video.  Also helped me understand the progression through jack, jointer and smooth, too.

   My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
4. 
   mufti | May 24, 2006 12:34am | #4

                 I have the same plane and posted this re another subject.

        Once the back is honed, hold the blade bevel up at about 45 degrees on the edge of the bench and dress the bevel with a medium diamond hand hone, changing to the fine hand hone for the mirror finish working across the long edge of course. Since I started I now hone this way for all edges, because you can see the results as you work it's accurate and easy, and honestly gives shaving results

5. 
   Handrubbed | May 24, 2006 12:51am | #5

   If you prefer the security of a sharpening jig, Veritas just introduced one that is designed to controllably yield a radiused cutting edge.  Look at their web site (LEE VALLEY) and look for the MkII sharpening jig.  The part you need is an accessory that adds $19.50 to the cost.  I just ordered one myself.  There are reviews of it elsewhere in this forum.  I'm not a drum beater for LV, but they make some reasonably priced and innovative products and have very good service.

1. 
   John_D | May 24, 2006 01:36am | #6

   Not sure that LV bulging roller will be adequate to cover a scrub's radius.  I think it's more intended for the relatively restained camber you'd put on a smoother or jack.

   That said, I think I'll order it eventually (for those planes), but I've not completely made up my mind.  Hope you post on your experience with it when you get it.My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   Handrubbed | May 24, 2006 03:17am | #10

   You may be right about that.  I don't have a scrub plane so I'm OK.  I find it interesting that LV's chief proponent, Derek Cohen, had some difficulty sharpening a Lie-Nielsen iron using this jig.  Maybe it is not as foolproof as it seems.  I'm going to experiment with it on some old irons before I launch into my LN's.  I'm not a proponent of the eliptical grind...at least yet.  I have to study David Charlesworth's articles again to see if I use them for jointing and smoothing.

2. 
   mwenz | May 24, 2006 05:09am | #12

   John,

   Below is a LN scrub honed with a few degree secondary bevel after a regrind.

   I use the LV lower camber accessory to hone my pattern maker's planes and rounds form my H&R set..

   http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/lv_honing_guide/roller_mod_0007a.jpg

1. 
   John_D | May 24, 2006 09:38am | #13

   So how did you hone it?  You obviously have a good method in place... am I understanding you correctly that you have but do not use the LV bulging roller for this purpose?My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   mwenz | May 24, 2006 09:51am | #14

   Hi John,

   Yes, I used the LV honing jig with the cambered roller:

   http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/lv_honing_guide2/

   But I also use it on tighter radii blades.

   Take care, Mike

6. 
   Midnight | May 24, 2006 01:50am | #7

   while I'm not about to disagree with the others, personally I've found that all it's needed is a wee tickle on the back of the plane to bring it back from "getting tired" to "damn near lethal"...

   remember t wear yer safety glasses.. it's a bit vicious...  ;)

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

1. 
   John_D | May 24, 2006 01:58am | #8

   Yeah, the shavings off a scrub don't behave or look anything like smoother shavings.  Though I can't pretend I'm energetic enough to have endangered my eyes. :)My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   Midnight | May 24, 2006 02:02am | #9

   LOL... relieved t hear I'm nae the only one that suffers fatigue.. the eye endangerment issue generally lasts till the euphoria of getting back in the shop wears off and the brow starts leaking seriously... usually takes about 15 seconds....  ;)Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

2. 
   bones | May 24, 2006 04:59am | #11

   Thanks for all the great ideas. I will look up Rob's video. I have another one of his somewhere I think.  I got it in the shop tonight and wow what a change.  I love the way that thing takes down the wood fast! I decided that If I just get one board flat each night I can get it done before the wedding for the niece (I know its slow, but this is for fun not profit). I managed to knock out  three boards of my project in about 45 minutes. Got the rough stuff off and down to where a few passes with the #7 and had a good flat face ready for the planer.  Every time I use the hand planes I get a little better appreciation for their use.  Hey, don't need to wear the ear muffs either. Just the swoosh. Oh well back to reality and the time clock. Thanks again for all the suggestions! 

7. 
   woodrae | May 24, 2006 06:02pm | #15

   There’s some good advice here.

   While you don't need a particularly smooth surface on the wood when scrub-planing, that doesn't mean your blade shouldn't be as sharp as you can make it. A sharp blade cuts more easily, saving you energy. Also, and something many woodworkers don't realize, a sharp edge lasts longer. That's because there's less roughness along the edge (seen at a microscopic level, of course) so less fracturing occurs as the blade impacts the wood. Thus, the edge stays sharp longer before breaking down. Less resharpening is a good thing, no?

   As I do with all my plane irons, I free-hone my scrub blades on a 1,000- and then a 8,000-grit polishing waterstone. Your sandpaper method will work just as well. Or oilstones. Or ceramics. Or, hell, a concrete slab. (I’m serious... at least for the rough-honing part.) Place the iron bevel-side down on the rough stone or paper, and feel with your hands that the full length of the bevel, from the cutting edge to the back, is making complete contact. Rock it back and forth a bit if necessary to get a feel for when the bevel is fully seated. Holding that bevel angle, push the iron over the stone while rotating it, following the blade’s existing curve. When you feel a full-width burr on the back of the blade, turn it over and rub the back until the burr is gone. Then repeat this procedure several times, honing the bevel and the back, using less and less hand pressure each time. Repeated rubbing of both bevel and back is an important step because it refines the cutting edge.

   Once the blade has an even sheen on the bevel and the back—no localized dull or shiny spots—and you don’t see any roughness along the very cutting edge (hold the blade up to good light), switch to your fine stone or paper, and repeat the honing process, again rubbing the bevel and the back several times and using less pressure with each pass. Aim for a mirror finish. (But be sure to stop if the sun is starting to set and you still don’t have any shavings on the floor.) Regardless of your specific sharpening system, the hand-held technique takes practice to perfect, but it's not particularly difficult. Once you get the knack for it, honing a dull scrub iron should take all of two minutes, including dismounting and remounting the blade in the plane.

   For beginners, an easier but somewhat slower method is to clamp the blade in the bench and bring the stone (or sandpaper adhered to a flat, hard block of wood) to the tool, and not the other way around. Sliptones (smaller, shaped stones, usually with two flat faces) are easy to maneuver and work well if you use one of the flat faces, but you can hone with a full-size stone, too, once you learn its balance point. Again, practice is the key.

   Honing jigs are great, and they really shine for one primary reason: You’ll have success the first time you hone. That can really boost confidence for a beginner. But the setup time and the actual honing process is much slower. I encourage students to try the hand-held method, simply because it’s faster, which in the long run prompts you to keep your blades sharp on a regular basis. The fact is, you’ll resharpen more readily when you realize it only takes a minute or two.

   Although I’m a big fan of microbevels, I don’t recommend using one on a scrub iron, just as I wouldn’t use one on a mortise chisel. The cutting action is severe, so I use a fully honed bevel for added strength and longer wear.

   If you have a subscription, you might want to check out my latest 12-minute video on Fine Woodworking.com’s website (Sharpening a Plane Iron: Honing the Edge). I show how to hand-hone a standard bench iron, but the technique is applicable to curved edges, too, once you get a feel for rotating the blade around its arc.

   Good luck!

   —Andy Rae

1. 
   bones | May 24, 2006 06:55pm | #16

   Thanks for the reply. I am a subscriber and will look for the video.  The LN was excellent out of the box, but I know the sharpening is coming. I do use the veritas bevel gauge for my other plane blades and the scary sharp method because it worked right out of the box for me.  That big cure threw  a curve so to speak in my abilities to sharpen. I use to shy away from hand tools for the simple reason sharpening was difficult if not  impossible for me.  I took a class on sharpening at the local woodcraft and after seeing the process I found it not bad.  I will progress hopefully to a state of eye ballin it some day.  Thanks again for the help.

2. 
   joinerswork | May 25, 2006 04:32pm | #17

   Andy,

   Your sharpening technique is like mine with one exception.  I don't go through the sequence of coarse to fine stones on the back side of the blade, just the bevel.  Once the back side of the blade is flat and polished, just go through the coarse to fine stones on the bevelled side, then wipe the burr away just using the fine stone.  No need to keep polishing out the scratches on the flat side of the blade over and over again.

   Regards,

   Ray Pine

1. 
   woodrae | May 25, 2006 06:25pm | #18

   Ray—That's a good point, and it's a technique I used to use. But I've found it doesn't work for me most of the time. Yes, ocassionally I go straight to the fine stone to remove the burr. But that's only when I'm doing a fairly light touchup to a dull blade, perhaps with only one or two passes on the bevel with my coarse stone. 90% of the time I have to rub the bevel on the coarse stone many times until the edge is free of nicks, which ends up producing a significant burr on the back. And I find that my fine stone (8,000 grit) just won't cut away such a big burr effectively.There's something else to consider, which I think is even more important. As I mentioned, I go back and forth on the bevel and the back on both stones to refine the edge, using less and less pressure each time. This, of course, requires backing off the burr on my coarse stone. My experience, along with the practice of many woodworkers, including traditional Japanese chisel and plane users, tells me that this refining step goes a long way towards making an edge that's sharper and—most important—lasts longer in use.Now, to throw a monkey wrench into all this, we could talk about microbevels, which I like to use on ocassion. One of my microbevel techniques is to go straight from the grinder to my 8,000 stone to polish the bevel, since I'm only polishing a strip of metal that might be 1/32 in. wide or less. In this case, the burr is so slight that backing it off is child's play on the fine stone. I use the same approach for subsequent resharpening, honing both bevel and back only on the fine stone. However, there comes a point at which the honed area of the bevel becomes too wide to effectively sharpen on the fine stone, at which point I go back to the coarse stone and begin my standard honing method.Having said this, I truly believe there is no right or wrong way to sharpen, as is the case with most woodworking. If you get the edge you want with the technique you're using, then that's the right way for you. The important thing is to experiment to find a level of working that's comfortable for you.—Andy