Replies

1. 
   Samson | Dec 30, 2006 07:00pm | #1

   I don't have the 140, but I do have the LN rabbet block.  I find it a very useful plane.  It, of course, does normal block duties, but is also great for sizing tenons, cutting/cleaning rabbets, etc.  Lacking a skew, it can run in either direction.  While the skew is an advantage for making super clean cuts, in even difficult grain, the rabbet is no slouch.  I don't use a lot if exotic woods (curly maple and cherry of various sorts are my most common grain challenges), but I haven't yet found myself using the rabbet block and cursing it as "if only you were skewed!" 

2. 
   Glaucon | Dec 30, 2006 07:21pm | #2

   Lataxe,

   I can't give you feedback based on personal experience as I do not own the 140. I cannot imagine that someone would actually own both a left and a right hand version... but perhaps it is so, and perhaps for a good reason, that I can't imagine...

   I would suggest that you email your question to LN. I have found them to be very forthright and informative, especially regarding the best plane for a particular application. I have had email responses from Tom as well as others, and my experience leads me to think he is quite thoughful on the matter.

   Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

3. 
   mwenz | Dec 30, 2006 08:04pm | #3

   Hi Master Lataxe,

   I owned one for several years. Great little plane. As regards having both a L/R pair, I got by with one--but did want the other.

   The issue is one needs to have the leading corner of the blade engaged into say the corner of the rebate, or on a shooting board, above the workpiece so the skew shears down.

   As for rebates, if you can stand on both side of your bench or turn the workpiece, you can always have the leading corner engaged into the corner of the rebate. So no worries as long as the grain is not too wild. Using it set very shallow it will do an adequate job planing into grain run-out. Most times on rebates, though, I used a shoulder plane as I felt the balance was better and it could always plane the proper grain orientation. Most times, it was that little LN infill shoulder plane. Handy bugger.

   On a shooting board--yep, for small mitered pieces I used that little plane more than for rebates--it is more beneficial to have both the L/R version so one can keep the reference face of the molding against the board and the backstop.

   I also used the #140 more for fielding small panels and beveling drawer bottoms than rebates. My advice would be if you can try one, take along a couple pieces already rabated like you would normally do, and then see if the #140 is easier to clean/deepen these rebates than the should plane you have. If the shoulder plane you have is a big, heavy one, consider getting a 1/2" wide or so one. If you would use the #140 for more than rebates like I mentioned [and more] then it is a nice plane.

   Take care, Mike

1. 
   Lataxe | Dec 30, 2006 08:48pm | #4

   Thanks all for the replies so far - I feel the purchasing decision slowly forming.  :-)

   I did consider both a smaller LN shoulder plane (I have the large LV) and the LN rebating block plane, as mentioned by you Samson.  The No 140 (as you mention Mike) does seem to be a more versatile animal, because of its fence and ability to actually create rabbets rather than just deepen an existing one.  I would like to cut those rabbets with a plane from scratch, ie without using the TS.

   If the 140 is used to create rabbets, it can only run in one direction, with reference to the edge on which its fence runs.  I was hoping that, even when rabbeting against rising grain, the skew and low angle of the blade would be sufficient to give a clean cut.

   My planing experience so far tells me that rising or other dificult grain sometimes needs a steep blade angle but (contrarily) will sometimes respond to a very low angle and a slicing cut - but in both cases only thin shavings can be taken.  A steep blade is too hard to push if you try a thick cut; whilst a thick low angle/skew cut just causes the blade to dig in and tear.

   To create a rabbett from scratch, at around the 1cm X 1cm I typically use for picture frames, would take forever if the shavings were kept wafer thin. I was hoping to be able to take thickish cuts to speed the rabbett creation time.  But even the skew/lowangle seems unlikely to work well on rising grain then. 

   I did figure this out before looking at the LN website.  Lo and behold, they have already recognised the issue themselves and give it as the specific reason for offering a left-hand version as well as the right hand one.  The appropriate plane is used, depending on the grain involved, so all cuts are (as far as possible) with the grain.

   As you suggest, Glaucon, I will send them an email and see what they have to say.  Two No140s does seem a bit indulgent if the only reason for the 2nd one is to cut the odd rabbet in a few awkward bits of picture frame material....

   Lataxe

1. 
   mwenz | Dec 30, 2006 08:55pm | #5

   Ah...well if you want to create rebates form the start with a plane, consider the ECE-type of moving fillester plane, or a vintage one. The vintage ones are often skewed blades and I also use mine for small raised panels and the like. Also, a Stanley #78 can be very useful. All with adjustable fences.

   These can take thicker shavings with better/longer registration than the #140. Also note that a rebate, unless seen, does not need to finish off as "pretty" as a show surface.

   Take care, Mike

2. 
   Samson | Dec 30, 2006 08:58pm | #6

   The rabbet block can cut a rabbet from scratch.  Clamp a guide board and go.  I've done it many times.  But if you really want to cut decent rabbets by hand, consider picking up a (wait for it) ... vintage Stanley 78.  If you can find a Record 778 with its two rail fence, so much the better (though I find the 78 works fine). 

   Edited 12/30/2006 1:24 pm ET by Samson

1. 
   Lataxe | Dec 30, 2006 09:06pm | #7

   Now then!  Stop with that, "Do up an old plane" nonsense.  Surely you realise that the real objective here is to buy a shiny new LN?  :-)

   I just want the shiny-one to do its stuff properly, as it will not be sitting in any glass case - unlike many others, I suspect.

   Lataxe, a consumer-producer

    

1. 
   Samson | Dec 30, 2006 09:17pm | #8

   Lataxe, I found one for you in your neck of the woods at a very fair price:

   http://www.theoldtoolshop.fsnet.co.uk/SR183des.html

   You can get that and the LN too!

   Oh, and LN makes a 78 replacement blade if that would make you feel warmer toward the old girl.

4. 
   JeffHeath | Dec 30, 2006 09:30pm | #9

   Lataxe

   I have a 140, and would agree with all Mike W has to say.  I didn't read all the posts here, so I'll share my own thoughts. 

   First of all, I have very, very large hands, and this is a small plane.  So take that for what it is worth.  I love the plane for cleaning up rabbets (rebates), or whatever you want to call them.  As far as grain direction goes, I've had no trouble, so I don't see the need for two.  If you're going against some really tough grain, take a lighter cut, and you'll be fine.  You already stated you have a shoulder plane, so in the worst case scenario, you could always clean up with the grain with that. 

   For making rabbets, it's a bit too small for me to do the job from start to finish.  I prefer a fillister (filletster) plane for that.  I've got any oldie, but a goodie from Ohio Tools for larger rabbets.

   I absolutely love this little plane for creating the ledge for marking out dovetails, ala Rob Cosman style.  I met Rob at Lee Grindinger's Montanafest 2 years ago, and he professed the attributes for this plane in this function, and I now don't know how I got along without it for so many years.  It has really helped me quite a bit in registering the two boards together, having that wee bitty ledge.

   So, I'd tell you to get one, as you'll prolly put it to good use.

   Jeff

5. 
   mufti | Dec 30, 2006 11:51pm | #10

              Madame Guillotine seemed effective irrespective of the direction of the blade angle and my 140 also so performs. It is however handed in that the nicker is on one side only. Being slightly ambidextrous I do not find this a problem.

   For end grain trimming you cannot beat a mitre trimmer in my view. But why try to justify any LFW?

   HNY, David

1. 
   Lataxe | Dec 31, 2006 05:05pm | #11

   Jeff and Mufti,

   Although it really didn't take much, your additional info persuades me to get 1 No140.  It does seem to be a versatile little beast; its use to help register dovetails is intruiging to say the least.  Thanks for the push (I think).   :-)

   Thanks all for the help, even Samson, who may have caused me to buy and fix that funny-looking thing he posted a link to.  My toes detect a greasy slope!

   Lataxe

6. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Jan 01, 2007 12:49am | #12

   Latax, good evening and a belated Merry Christmas. There are several ways to skin your cat. I have the Millers Falls version of Stanley's #140 and it's great but small for my big meat hooks or two woody skew fillisters left and right or a Record #778 when starting from scratch or a Stanley #92, LV large rebate and a LV low angle block.

   With that said I still lust for a #140 done by LV in the style of their edge trimming plane with more toe and a grasp that  "comes to hand" better than the petit #140 original as to size. I never miss an opportunity to poke an email finger into Mr. Rob Lee's ribs as to when their #140 will be offered. BTW, unless it's a weekly event , you should not need two. All the best, Paddy-Have a great new years.

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

   l

1. 
   mwenz | Jan 01, 2007 03:02am | #13

   Hi,

   Yep, I suspect Rob & Company's version will be a little larger, a little longer than the Stanley version.

   And let us not forget, speaking of Rob Lee and Lee Valley, that they will be coming out with a plane based upon the Stanley #289--a metal moving fillister plane with a properly skewed blade.

   I have a vintage wood one, but I have quickly and cleanly cut tenons with it. Fence limits the length of the tenon and the depth stop helps to go close to the thickness needed.

   Take care, Mike

1. 
   Lataxe | Jan 01, 2007 04:39pm | #14

   Mike,

   You and that Paddy are making me drool with all this plane talk.  Will my discovery of yet another specialised planing-thing never end?

   I must go against a lifetime's habit and make a firm decision.  It is an LN No 140 and I will just have to cry if LV bring out a better one.

   Thank you both for the advice.

   Lataxe

1. 
   mwenz | Jan 01, 2007 08:48pm | #15

   Ah a New Year, time for firm decisions!

   Lataxe, if the LN #140 comes to your house, you will get use out of it and won't have buyer's remorse. When I was selling off tools, I needed to make some decisions about which ones. As I often used other methods to accomplish what I bought that plane to do, it made it redundant. That's why mine went to someone else's house to play.

   It is a well made plane and does exactly what it is meant to do.

   I wish you and yours the very best for the new year!

   Take care, Mike

2. 
   JeffHeath | Jan 03, 2007 08:04am | #18

   Mike

   I have found the same shortcomings with my fillister, literally.  It's only good for short tenons, as the fence is quite restrictive.  I find myself sawing my tenons, and cleaning them up with my rabbet block plane if necessary.

   Jeff

1. 
   mwenz | Jan 03, 2007 08:43am | #19

   Hi Jeff,

   I typically build smaller chest on stands and the like. Sometimes something as long as a credenza. Most of the tenons I make are at the greatest 1 1/2" in length, so my moving fillister could do them.

   But...I just saw them. Most times if I need to clean them up I will use a coarse file or fine rasp. I have a couple dozen of the buggers on the wall behind my bench and it is quick and easy for me.

   For half laps and the like, I typically saw them a little fat and use a router plane to ensure the halves fit together.

   I use to amost always use a plane for thinning tenons but in the main stopped sometime back. I also don't use a shoulder plane anymore [for shoulders anyway].

   I think I'm regressing <g>. But there are so many fun ways to accomplish the same job that I do "play" around with different methods, sometimes on the same piece.

   Take care, Mike

1. 
   Lataxe | Jan 03, 2007 10:21pm | #20

   Mike,

   "One woodworker's regression is another woodworker's progression"

   You have implied a small piece of basic wisdom there. It should be attached to all Knots posts as a matter of course.

   Lataxe, regressing (or is it progressing) with chisels and planes just now.

7. 
   pzgren | Jan 03, 2007 02:05am | #16

   Lataxe,

     I have both the right and left handed LN 140s. Excellent planes, but obviously rather specialised. As others have mentioned, they work for a number of things besides cleaning up (and creating) rebates.

     While not completely necessary, a couple of pieces of wood have come across my path that made having the lefty a real plus, and avoided the perpetration of serious tearout (making raised panels). For picture framing, I can envision where being able to go in either direction would be very useful, especially if you're planing some of those nasty-grained woods that make such nice frames.....

     So...do you have to have both? Probably not, but having both does make some things easier and saves you from having to make do with some sort of work-around. You may not use the left-handed one very often, but when you need it, it is very, very nice to have available.....

     BTW, the bronze version has a bit more heft than the iron version, which I find more comfortable to use, and they're prettier.

     Soooo....now you have the requisite excuse to buy the (pair of) LN 140(s).......  ;-)

     I hope that you fully understand before you do this, that you won't be able to get away with buying just one LN plane (or in this case, perhaps one pair); more will follow......  [shove, Shove, SHOVE.....]

   Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!

   Tschüß!

   Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!

   James

8. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Jan 03, 2007 05:31am | #17

   Latax old son, I am remis in that I failed to note that if you order the LN #140 be sure to order it with a nicker so you can do a cross grain cut where the nicker cuts the grain before the iron lifts out the cut. It makes for neat edges. Paddy

1. 
   Lataxe | Jan 03, 2007 10:25pm | #21

   Paddy,

   I am worried now as I had assumed the nicker ws standard - there is no special mention of it in the blurb about the No 140 on the website of the British retailer I have ordered from.  On the other hand, their blurb does say, "can be used for rebating..."

   If there is no nicker I will get my knickers in a twist with them!

   Lataxe

    

1. 
   mwenz | Jan 03, 2007 10:53pm | #22

   From the LN web site:

   Improved round A-2 nicker standard on all tools. For scoring cross-grain fibers, retracts when not in use.

   Strikes me this was done over a year ago, making it standard. So as long as it isn't old stock, it'll have it. Might want to give them a ring though.

   Also note that LN will retrofit it to a plane without. In your case being trans-Atlantic, I suspect they would simply swap out the plane. So that's also a possibility.

   Take care, Mike

1. 
   Lataxe | Jan 04, 2007 12:19am | #23

   Mike,

   You are an angel and now I will sleep well.:-)

   Lataxe

2. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Jan 04, 2007 07:44am | #24

   Latax. mea culpa. Alas it is true that the nicker is now standard  but you should insure that your local merchant does not foist off old goods on you for your precious pounds. I am sure that as you are a well informed customer that you will "have his guts for garters" should he attempt that dodge. All the best, Paddy.