I’ve been in Cheltenham and Tewksbury for a week, having a family holiday, so not much was done on the hayrake table until today. However, when in Cheltenham I took the opportunity to visit the Town Museum, which has a very fine collection of furniture by Gimson, Barnsley and other Cotswold A&C makers, including the hayrake table which is serving as my inspiration.
Articles about Cotswold A&C often describe the edge decoration as “chip-carved”. I didn’t really understand this until I got my peepers on the hayrake table edge in the museum.
The edge is first given a small chamfer then the diamonds are formed by indenting pointy teeth shapes from each chamfer towards the middle of the table’s edge. The diamond points at the edges are not proud but the points in the centre are.
So, a question. What are the tool(s) & techniques for chip-carving these do you think? I’m guessing that a stab knife is used to define the triangular chips but what would take out the chips? Just a straight chisel maybe?
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Another issue with the table top concerns the very large knots and holes in the central planks. These are decorative and in keeping with the “rough” nature of the table as whole; but perhaps they need stabilising or improving in their look…..?
These ‘oles are up to 0.5mm (3/16″) deep. Normally I fill very small holes with Liberon hard wax; bigger holes usually get dollops of Liberon beaumontage (wax-shellac mix). However, these holes are too large for hard-wax (which isn’t that hard) and would take near a stick each of beaumontage to fill.
Does anyone have any other suggestions about how to deal with them? Maybe I should just leave them as-is?
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The top was near finished today and is just having the breadboard ends dry-fitted to the tongue. Once they do fit I’ll be carving the diamonds on the tabletop edges before finally gluing and pinning the breadboards into place. More pics in a day or two.
Lataxe
Replies
lataxe,
that table edge looks a great deal like the little carvings you posted pics of some weeks ago or am i just trippin'? if it were i doing that carving, i'd feel just fine using a straight flat chisel. chip carving is not my thing, so to speak, having always preferred standing up rather than hunkered down while sitting and "chipping".
have you considered epoxy to fill those holes? perhaps epoxy is not in keeping with some tradition you may be upholding? but mixed with very fine sawdust, might be the ticket.
hope you had a good time "on holiday". i enjoy reading the odd and yet quaint names you brits assign your towns and villages. tewksbury?
eef
Edited 3/15/2009 4:56 pm ET by Eef
I'm new to this forum and a hobbyist at that but I'll throw my 2 cents in for what its worth. For the diamonds I would try a woodcarving v tool. I would try it in a piece of waste to see how clean a diamond I could make first and go from there. As for the holes -a trick carvers use is to take a piece of the same wood whittle it down so it is close to the crack/crevice your filling, put some glue in the hole and then drive the whittled sliver in with a mallet. This leaves some sticking out and you carefully remove this with a sharp straight carving tool.
I've had good luck using a low viscosity epoxy to fill such holes. The stuff I use (Cold Cure purchased from Lee Valley) can be tinted if desired. It will flow deep into the hole and stabilize it from getting any larger.Other than leaving the hole "as is" the only other option I can think of is to put in a dutchman patch which would stand out even more than the hole unless the grain matches perfectly.Regards,Ron
Eef,
Tewksbury - an ancient place where the rivers Severn and Avon meet - an unfortunate circumstance the summer before last, when the place was besieiged by a vast flood.
Here is a picture of the Mill Avon - a diversion of the Avon-proper into a canal, just before it runs into The Severn, to drive a girt mill wheel. The wheel has long-gone and the mill house is now apartments. But note the ancient abbey and half-timberd hoosies. The place still looks medieval.
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Tewksbury from The Severn Ham.
And here we see spring begining to sprang around the ladywife, who is stood under a muscular beech at the east end of the abbey. She is a gardener and this encourages growth to come up wherever she treads.
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***
I will follow the advice from you and others concerning the diamond-making - a straight chisel with two angled stabs and a stroke to take out the triangle.
The filling of them 'oles is more of an issue. Epoxy won't really go with the rest of the table's look. Perhaps a knock-in of some wood wedges to take up 'ole-volume but then pare them down to below the surface and finish off with shellac-goo? I would make the goo quite dark.
A dutch patch made of a knot is suggested by young Philip. This is the first time I've heard of that technique but it does make sense. I suppose the trick is to match the grain surrounding the new knot, which may be rather difficult given that grain swirls about in such regions. An experiment seems called for.
Lataxe
You have a lovely wife.We stayed at Blackheath, then we took the train up to Hadrian's Wall.I was sicker than a dog. Saw YAPORR's (Yet Another Pile Of Roman Rocks) and YAPOERs (Yet Another Pile Of Edwardian Rocks) all over the place. Square rocks, flat rocks, short rocks, rocks laid in very straight lines, rocks piled very high. Some piles of rocks were two MILLENNIA old. Man, that's old. The Queen Mother, on the other hand, is a relative youngster, with only a century of life.Hadrian's wall. Castles. Harlech. Corbridge. Caernarfon. Roman plumbing.
The Tower of London, with a tour conducted by a Real Sergeant (retired, after 38 years of active service, and serving with the Beefeaters.) Made me take my damn hat off in his cathedral. Saw the home of Royal Welch Fusiliers. Read an AAR from a Captain at Minden. Read a report from a Cornet who was on the ground at Baclava, and witnessed the charges of both the Heavy Brigade and the Light Brigade. What a mess that was.
The English drive on the wrong side of the road, and we both ran the left wheels off the road more than once before we got used to it. You come to an intersection, and you will find yourself checking traffic from four places before you feel safe, and there's still an excellent chance that you will turn into the wrong lane. Roundabouts were created to inflict a high level of terror on tourists, and keep it there until they stop driving. The way they work is pretty simple. At an intersection, everyone drives in a circle around a statue, in two lanes, at increasing rates of speed with horns blaring, until centrifugal force throws you out down a random road at something approaching escape velocity.Since no one in England obeys the speed limits, they don't bother posting them. They usually don't apply anyway, because a main thoroughfares can enter a village, and the lane your driving in will disappear without warning, anyway. The proper response is to either drive up on the "sidewalk", which will gain you an extra 13 inches, or lean on your horn, and charge out into the oncoming lane. The second method is far more effective, but if you show fear, they will sense it, and grind you into the building, anyway.
There is no word in English (as spoken in England) for "tailgating", they think that 8 inches is plenty of room, regardless of speed. (Except, of course, on the M. On the M, or anywhere above 50 mph, they only use 6 inches.) "Tailgating" remains an American-English word and an American concept.I will grant them that their methods of driving result in drivers who are far more alert than American drivers, because of all the adrenalin flowing through their veins.Note that all of this took place before the wide-spread use of cellphones, and the terror now being generated out on I-5 here in Washington by people signaling, changing lanes, drinking a mocha, flipping people off and typing text messages simultaneously is now close to Standard English Driving Terror, but note also that they have a lot more experience driving under the influence of terror.
I don't like their food. They have no idea what bacon, milkshakes, or coffee is or how it should be prepared. They use the wrong part of the bacon, and even the Starbuck's in London disappointed us. Yorkshire pudding is their one redeeming dish, but there's never much of it, and they only serve it on Sundays. Their idea of beef is a scraggly old bull, with it's ribs showing, plowing around, rooting for one more mouthful in a high, barren mountain meadow somewhere in Scotland. They have foraging for survival confused with grazing, where cattle is concerned. It just doesn't stack up next to Nebraska corn fed beef. They think marbling is a feature of floor tile, and they prefer to use vast quantities of salt rather than refrigeration to preserve their meat. They use "Do Not Disturb" signs to indicate that immediate maid service is requested, which confused us, and resulted in the maid charging straight in on us several times. Our mistake. This is an important tip for those of you thinking of visiting. The only way to avoid a maid charging in on you and yours is to get out. Early. Like at 0500.
They don't use ice, they drink all their water (and most of their other drinks) at a temperature slightly cooler than fresh urine. When I asked for ice water, I got two cubes, which melted while I watched in the luke warm water. When I asked for "LOTS of ice", the waitress industriously scooped 4 cubes into a glass, and was very proud. Fortunately, the 4 cubes took twice as long to melt. I left her a nice tip, because by English standards, she put out above and beyond. I got sick. Real sick. I became numb to Ancient Buildings. I loved that place with the green valleys.As soon as I got home, I wanted to go back.
Lataxe,
If I didn't know better that looks like you splattered into that beech tree with yer heed stuck in a knothole, 'hind yer ladywife. Lookin for sumpin?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I see your point, Bob.J
Edited 3/16/2009 5:13 pm ET by Joe Sullivan
Ai yi yi Lud!
I just came upon this statement of yours:
"A dutch patch made of a knot is suggested by young Philip."
My understanding is that a Dutchman is not the "patch" I refer to.(;)
If you dredge the archives I think I did describe an easy way to get a perfect result each time, the only other requirement being suitable timber to match, as you note, but the curlier the figure the easier it is to hide the new knot-I believe. The actual plug will not have a uniform perimeter shape-it should conform more or less with the swirls you talk of.
You have a disc sander ? And a router with say 5mm straight cutter? And a fine ball pen re-fill?Philip Marcou
Philip,
I never stuff dutchmen into holes as they only get annoyed and throw a clog at you (or worse).
The more the issue percolates through the wetware, the more I think WillG may be right. I don't really want to hide the holes or change their shape, as this would destroy the natchl look of that "character" oak. All I really need to do is stabilise the 'oles so that splits don't come off them; or some other annoying syndrome emerges with use.
Some of the holes are clean whilst others have a bit of punky stuff in them - the bark from the aborted branchlets perhaps. There are also some small splits that are probaly due to the tension in the locale letting rip after the planks were resawn.
As the finish is going to be oil and wax, I may just leave the holes until experiments have come up with a reasonable method of stabilisation. I can then apply it and refinish just those areas. If there is no real deterioration or increase in the hole size, I might just leave them as-is permanently.
Lataxe
lataxe,
i appreciate your not wanting to stuff dutchmen into holes....thank you.
have you thought about the nakashima method of hole/crack/check checking? it is a mortise in the table top shaped like a two-ended swallow tail into which is inserted wood of the same shape as the mortise.
eef
EEf,
On the original hayrake table that now lives in the Cheltenham museum, the top is decorated with those butterflies you mention. At least I think they're decorative; but maybe not.
Certainly the table top has no cracks or other Nakashima-type splits requiring the butterflies to hold things together. But they do have a wedge in the middle of them, which I haven't seen in other such butterflies. I'm wondering whether they represent some sort of mortise though the tabletop into the long central arm of the top hayrake, which the Cheltenham table has.
I suspect that the holes and such in my table top will not get worse. They're in the middle of the planks which are themselves bounded by planks that are cler of such vigorous grain.
Lataxe
lataxe,
how old is that original table in the museum? i'll bet you dollars to doughnuts the butterflies in that table are functional. i do not fully understand your description of the wedge in the butterfly and it intrigues me very much.
eef
Eef,
The hayrake table in the Cheltenham museum was made around 1910, I believe. Here is a bad photo of the butterfly type it sports, which butterflies run down the centre of the table top, centred over the upper hayrake that runs immediately under the top:
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Sorry about the blur and lack of contrast - the museum was dim and the curator (who gave me speshul permission to take a few photos) was breathing down my neck and forbidding use of flash.
Here is another photo, from the web, of a similar butterfly in another hayrake table which may be by Peter Waals. It's smaller but clearer:
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What is the function of that central strip,one wonders? Is it just decorative or does it have a construction purpose? I can find no clue in the pile of Cotswold-style literature that I'm accumulating.
I bought a CD with high resolution scans of Gimson and Sidney Barnsley plans, hoping to find a lot of construction information in them. There is some info but, although the files are large tiffs of many pixels, the original plans were very dark, high-level and obscure, so they are of limited value in trying to get at construction techniques used.
Incidentally, should anyone have an interest in that CD, the Cheltenham Town Museum is selling it for £19.95, which is £45 less than the original asking price! It has hundreds of tiff files along with a simple database and search engine.
If only there was a Taunton or Pop WW book, similar to those on Shaker, American A&C or G&G,cshowing Cotswold A&C motifs and construction details.
****
Tom,
Mr Forrester, my ancient neighbour who was 40 years a French polisher with Waring & Gillow, tells me that they used to fill holes such as I have in this tabletop with something called brummer. I am about to search for this previously unheard-of stuff.
Perhaps meanwhile you could give me a link to the stuff you mention in your catalogue?
Lataxe
Brummer
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Don,
You are a star. That sounds just the stuff so I'm off to buy a tin.
Lataxe.
This week I are been mostly starting a new exerecise regime, as the 60th birthday along with an alarming message from the weighing scales, suggests that I must. So I'm currently knackered, aching and very tired. Thus little progres on the hayraker.
On top of this, two neighbours have been at me demanding a Shaker ladderback chair and a pitch pine double-decker coffee table. Still, this allows me to sit on the sofa drawing plans. :-)
Anyway, here are a few more pics of tabletop work:
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Here is a reminder of what it looks like plank-wise.
Once glued up, I gave it a bit of a smooth to get rid of glue lines and any slight steps atween the planks, then cut the tongues for the breadboard ends. I would have liked to have ued a handsaw to define the tongues but after a wee trial I became wary because I have no obvious way to limit the depth of cut with a handsaw. (Suggestions for the future gratefully recieved). There was also the issue of having to saw through some very hard knots.
So the TS was used to form a few kerfs, which were then flattened with a chisel.
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The exact tongue dimensions were knifed on to the rough tongues (on both the top and the tongue-ends) which were then made right with a shoulder plane, using a vernier to check tongue thickness and centrality, as the knife lines were approached.
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This process I found hard work, as the tongue had to be checked not just for thickness but also centrality and square. I could have done with a router plane, which would have made the task much easier.
****
The breadboard ends have a groove of 28mm (17/16") depth to match the 26mm (1") tongues. I lack a handtool means to make such grooves accurately so the TS was used once more. Again, any suggested method for making such deep grooves gratefully accepted - I had visions of sawing and chiselling them out, which seems beyond my skills to get accurate, at the moment.
The breadboard ends will be square-pinned and glued to the centre 4 inches of the tongues, after the tongues have been given a slight concavity where they abutt the tabletop. Squishing the breadboard to close the gap and putting in the glue/pins, allows the breadboards to be under a slight tension in their centres, which ensures no gap atween the top and the breadboards opens at their extremities.
The unglued portions of the tongues will be waxed, to aid any differential movement due to humidity changes. The holes at the ends of the breadboards will be filled with a rectangular chamfered plug, the chamfers being sized/repeated to appear as reverse profiles of the diamonds that will be carved around the tabletop edges.
***
But just now I must have a little lie down.
Lataxe, fighting to stay out of the knackers yard.
Squire,
If I was to say "that is not a good choice of timber", what would you say? (Easy now, I am a sensitive and delicate person).
And: is there a specific reason for doing the bread board tongue all by hands? (If you felt like a change from using the eclectic rooter then this may be a specific reason).
And: is a there not a # 101/2 or #101/4 in the tool chest? (If not then this may be something to look for in the future, or I can just make one or two , since if we are to believe a certain well known personality all Blitish Stanleys are not good....)
I yam concerned about this exercise thing, as it can be overdone, and you will not allow yourself to press the green button, and will then be wearing tight britches, be-buckled shoes and a shirt with frilly sleeves whilst riding your saw horses...Philip Marcou
Philip,
I yam wearing lycra tights just now but draw the line at them C18th versions. My bum would look big in them. Also, the shoes do have a totter-plate on the bottom for pedal-attachment, as well as a velcro buckle. I am modern through and through.
Now! One believes that Marine homily: "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" - at least in respect of the exercise regime. I dread the prospect of becoming a bent and shuffling gimmer, dressed in fawn togs with stains everywhere and unable to get up the stairs for a wee. This is a sad fate easily avoided via a bit of sweat. I hope to die at 90 summick in the midst of vigrous fawneecations with a much younger woman (the ladywife).
***
The reason for doing the hand tool thang with them breadboards is just for its own sake (some play). I have made many and many a breadboard tongue & groove with the router, which takes approximately 4.72 minutes - well, a lot less time than buggering about with saws and planes, anyway.
As to the knotty wood: it is a reject obtained from a proper woodworker of course - but it's character suits the roughness of this table so I won't worry about knots needing a refix or other future crumblings that must be put right.
***
Wot are them numbers you toss about with gay abandon and disregard for number-ignorant chaps like moi? They represent some kind of plane taxonomy, I'll be bound! However I can never go that far down The Slope so that I talk Galoot. This would be the begining of that mental disease that not only causes involuntary sneering at green buttons but also those who press them.
***
There is a pitch pine coffee table a-wanted by Eileen next door. I may use it's construction as a means of relief from all the hayrake handtooling, as the coffee table will be M&T'd entirely via Domino thangs - my new toy! I will also route the edge profiles using a Great Whirling Cutter with A Huge Motor on the end.
Lataxe
Did you get a chance to see the print version of Weber's article in PW? He built his top out of two 24" flitch-cut planks. "The original design called for butterfly splines to join the planks at their edges, but I decided to dowel the edges with 1/2" diameter osage orange dowels." He did use inlaid butterflies as a decoration -- no central wedge.
Jim
Jim,
I did see (and avidly devour) Don Webber's article and slide show about his hayrake.
The stuff with the dowels and butterflies suggests to me that maybe the design is based on any number of older oak tables I've seen (usually trestles or a sort of Jacobean four legs with bottom-rails design) having tops made of two planks. These tables don't usually have the two top planks glued together. Instead they are kept together by a series of (visible in the gap) dowels or sometimes (more rarely) butterflies.
The ladywife and I often hire holiday cottages in various parts of Blighty and many have olden furniture in them. Two-plank-top kitchen / dining tables are surprisingly common - a lot of them look to be well over 100 years old and virtually all are made of oak.
But the hayrake table in Cheltenham museum, and the one that Don Webber made, don't seem to really need either the dowels or the butterflies, as the top planks are edge-glued.......
And that central wedge in the Cheltenham table butterflies is a puzzle.
Lataxe
LataxeIt looks as though you've solved the quest thanks to dgreen. When I get home this evening, I'll look it up and send the link--you might need it for some other purpose! Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
lataxe,
those little dark pieces of wood in the middle of the butterflies look very much as if they function to expand the butterfly when they're driven in. i could see this working thus if the butterfly were a loose fit to start with... could the butterflies be connected into a mating part and act as tenons?
interesting.
eefby the way tewksbury looks amazing.
Edited 3/18/2009 6:10 pm ET by Eef
LataxePardon my lousy research and feeble brain--I'm not sure if this is the stuff I saw or not--I've slept since I first saw it. Tom
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=78576&search=Rot%20Stop&smode="Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
LataxeI saw a product today in one of my myriad of catalogs that might be what you are looking for. It is an epoxy, but it is designed to stabilize punky wood and rot and not fill. The copy says that it stabilizes cracks, checks and knot holes. Sounds like really thin runny epoxy. Don't know if that's a help or not. I can't wait to see the finished project. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
I've worked extensively with epoxy, both in furniture, and in the restoration of an old family log cabin. generally speaking, epoxy itself is very thin and runny. You use it in that form to harden and stabilize rotten or punky wood, or to glue things. Once that is done, you either thicken the epoxy yourself with fine sawdust and the like, or you use a pre-thickened formulation. It is really like thickening meat juice into gravy -- without the heat (except the exothermic heat from the epoxy).You can also add pigments to the epoxy to match your wood or to take any other color. However, many prefer to use sawdust form the type of wood they are repairing in order to make a better match. That sort of works. Joe
You have to distinguish between the chipcarving done by specialist chipcarvers using (usually) only two knives, and the technique used by relief carvers using conventional tools. If you can get hold of Dick Onians's "Essential Woodworking Techniques" he has a chapter on it. On page 49, fig. 3.10 he shows how to make triangular pockets with a straight-edged chisel. The decoration you show is basically two lines of these back to back. You make a V shape with two stab cuts, then remove the triangle of wood between with one stroke of the chisel. Easier to understand if you can see the illustration.
Jim
David,
I trust you had a great break.Certainly seems like it.
I'm with Eef as far as fixin' the 'oles goes,even tho'as he says,i't a bit modern.Am igorant about the carving,but I think I'd go for the straight chisel also.
Must have been thought provoking wandering 'round the museum.
Robin
As big as those holes are I would opt for the epoxy solution. If you did not really want to fill them all the way, mix black color and leave it shallow from the top.
Small holes are easy to fill with a shellac stick. Tage Frid has that described in one of his first books on Finishing. Basically take shellac flakes, put them on a flat piece of clean steel or cast iron. Pour some Denatured Alcohol, and light it. (Not in the shop!) Use a small putty knife to mix the melting material together, then blow it out when the alcohol burns off. Tage used motor oil on his hands to mold the material (after it cools a bit..) into a stick. It keeps forever and you use an alcohol lamp or other torch to heat a burn in knife and melt the shellac into the holes. You have to do several applications to get it level, but it looks great. Did that 30 years ago on a walnut dresser and it has not moved or cracked.
Glad you survived your Birthday, no DUI's either!
Morgan
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
Hey,that sounds like one very useful trick!
Must try it.
R
1. Dimension square stock the size of the diamonds.
2. Whack those suckers off on the chop saw.
3. Glue 'em side-by-another to the side of the table.
4. Count your money.
Diamonds in the rough so to speak?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Lataxe ol phart,
I'd celebrate the flaws as best ye kin.
Really like the shellac deal. Prolly not ala Frid, but close. Don't wanna burn down the hooosey. Then we'd havta sleep with the horses.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Sire,
You enquire about knots and all these knotheads come up with preposterous suggestions such as the use of epoxy....Times are trying , to be sure.(;)
I suggest you find some nice smooth tight knots with character, and transplant them over the existing offending unsound areas.
The method is very easy and most satisfying, and if you select the donor knots well the operation will only be traceable to the experienced eye.Wood unto wood , I say, and epoxy be danged.
It is not claimed that the examples pictured are particularly good, but you can see the idea, and note that the camera was instructed to amplify everything.
P.S. After having another look at the examples you show, I would be inclined to use both implanted knots and some epoxy-the epoxy is handy for those long narrow voids.
Philip Marcou
Edited 3/16/2009 6:10 am by philip
Seriously, my bet is a straight paring chisel.
Plunge to define the diamonds, hard at the center, angled up towards the chamfer, careful to close the deep point.
Then pare from the chamfer towards the defining plunges.
I bet you'd pivot the paring around the shallow points.
You'd have to stick with the same chisel, I think. If you switched to a narrower chisel for the paring, my bet is that the definition wouldn't be as smooth.
You'd want to not let my wife know about the whole thing. There'd be a discussion about the money-per-hour, and the whole point of making furniture in the basement if you did.
but perhaps they need stabilising or improving in their look.....? Why I would ask?
A bench with a hole? They are usually filled with many some sort of holes!
Opps.. sorry I missed this until today as I have been busy myself. Nice job there and can't wait until you have it finished to have a peek.
Back to my own issues now... :>)
Sarge..
I would say that every diamond was different! Just like the REAL Diamonds from some Volcanos!
will,
if my calling were authorship, i would consider myself fortunate were you to pen the summaries of all my work.
eef
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