Jointer doesn’t Sound the way it should
I’m in the middle of glueing up small 3″ wide pieces of clear pine to make 12″ sides (panels) for a small bookcase. (I ripped a few 1X10″ boards and ripped them into approx. 3″ pieces) Now they are ready to be edge jointed and face jointed. Once that’s done I’ll run them through the planer and glue them together to make 12″ panels for the sides and shelves of my bookcase.
I have all my lumber ripped to approx. 3″ inches wide. I was running a few test pieces through the jointer and noticed some snipe marks at the end of the boards (no big deal) but there was some unexceptable tearout. Is tear out a common problem with Clear pine? I’m pretty sure I’m running the wood over the jointer with the grain. However, the grain is pretty figured on a lot of the boards. Perhaps figured boards are more prone to tearout.
Now I’m half afraid of ruining my good boards if I run them through the jointer.
Is there anyway to prevent horrible tearout? I am only removing a 1/16″ or less material with each pass.
I also noticed the my jointer doesn’t sound the way it usually does. I unplugged the jointer and pulled down the back so I could inspect the belts. They appear normal but when I move the belt up and down they make a sound (squeak) that wasn’t there before. Could it be a belt problem? Or does something need lubrication? I haven’t used my jointer that often so I doubt the belts need replacing. They certainly don’t look worn. They appear to be in alignment with the pulleys. But I do know that the jointer doesn’t sound the way it should. The minute I turned on the machine the other day I knew right off that something wasn’t quite right. My jointer was tuned up last year by a tool repair man so it should be ok.
Are the belts shiny and glazed? If so hit them with a little #1 or #2 steel wool to remove the glaze and set your belt to proper tension. Check for pulley alignment also. Also check your bearings for lubrication.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Also check your bearings for lubrication.
How do you check a bearing for lubrication?
Most modern jointers have shielded/sealed bearings, with no effective way to lubricate them (grease fittings, etc). Also, I've changed the cutterhead on my jointer and the bearings are not easily accessible without taking the whole thing apart.
Not so tough to check bearings, Just remove the belt and spin the cutter head by hand. Checking for "free wheeling", grinding, stiffness, and play. If there is a problem then replace the bearings.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
I agree on your methods for checking bearings. I wasn't trying to be argumentative - I just didn't understand the "lubrication" part.
I guess I'am better at doing than explaining :-)
But I do have my Grandfathers old direct drive 4" Wallace jointer that has a clam shell type head and oil wicked bushings. Cute little bugger. But more for show than use, but still tight and useable.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
I was running a few test pieces through the jointer and noticed some snipe marks at the end of the boards (no big deal) but there was some unacceptable tearout.
Also, with it unplugged, check your outfeed table with a straight edge to see if it is the same height as your knives. Check all three knives with that straight edge, once near your fence and again out near the outer edge just in case a knife has tilted is kicked up the opposite end.
Pine shouldn't tear out, but after checking the alignment, you might lightly wet the edge of your wood with a damp cloth to help with wild grain tear out.
Excessive noise could be bearings, or it also could be a loose motor or cutterhead pulley. I would check the pulley first. That's usually the culprit.
Yes, figured wood is more prone to tearout. Try turning the board around when you get tearout and running it the other way. This usually eliminates tearout, or greatly reduces it. Sometimes it's hard to tell which way the grain runs.
Try taking off 1/32" instead of 1/16th. It will take more passes, but you will get less tearout.
Are your knives sharp? (This has do with tearout, not the noise)
Good luck and let us know what you find out with that noise problem.
Reducing the feed rate will also lessen tearout.
Not seeing the exact model , I can tell you I had the same thing on a jointer , sounds and ripples . Mine was a loose set screw in the cutterhead pulley .
Tightened it up and it purred once again .
You don't say what kind of pine you're working with. Eastern white pine, while a very weak/soft wood, is fairly uniform in density, and should be OK. Tear out on Southern Yellow pine should be expected, particularly around knots. The wood's fairly strong in the sense of the word that evaluates the ability of whole boards to bear a load, but the latewood/earlywood junction is fairly weak and can separate under the stress of high-speed tooling.
And... 1/16" is a lot for one pass on a jointer, particularly on the face of a board rather than the edge. Not that you can't do it - most machines state that you shouldn't take off more than 1/8" with one pass in their owner's manuals, but you should expect some tearout with that depth of cut and a fairly quick feed rate.
There's another possibility - you don't describe the sound that it's making that's out of the ordinary, but if one of the bearings on the cutterhead is shot or one of the pillowblocks that mount the cutterhead bearing to the machine is loose, it could cause the head to wobble in use. Besides being really dangerous, that could also result in some pretty gnarly tear-out, as the cutterhead is taking more off than the depth indicator says it is.
More noise while running, or while cutting? If only while cutting it seems obvious that the blades probably need to be replaced or sharpenned. Sometimes a sharpennig will last for a year, and then sometimes you joint a gritty board or a piece of plywood and they're done before their time. Also, keep wax on those tables! Once I thought I had dull blades because it took excessive preassure to feed through, but waxed the tables and all was forgiven.
I had the same problem on my 6" JET jointer.
Check in this order:1) sharpen your knives2) Check your out-feed table it should be exactly the same height as your knives. I use the scoot method of checking. you'll need a flat piece of 1 X 2 about a foot long. I unplug the machine and lay the wood so most of it is on the out-feed table, but projects completely over the cutter head and over about 3/4" of the in-feed table (knive rotated out of the way). Draw a pencil line along the in-feed edge of the wood onto the in-feed table. Rotate the cutter-head by hand (in the correct direction), the knife will just graze the wood and move it toward the in-feed table 1/32 to 1/16". Rest the wood back to the line for the next knife. All the knives should move the wood piece the same amount. Check it at both ends and center of the knives. 3) Reset your in-feed to take 1/32" on a pass.4) use a straight edge to make sure your in-feed and out-feed tables are parallel.Huck
I finally had a chance to take a closer look at the jointer today. The set screw on the upper pulley was loose. But I don't think that's causing the "unusual" noise. Turned the machine on and there was no difference. That rattle is still there.
It's actually making more noise when it's NOT cutting. The knives are sharp. I checked their alignment. They are set to the height of the outfeed table. Slowing the feed rate and reversing the board made for a very smooth cut.
The mysterious sound is still there. I'd describe it as a rattle. Now how does one change the tention on a jointer belt. Would be easy to do on a table saw. I have no idea whether the pulleys are in alignment because I don't have the right size straight edge to check for that. I had a hell of a time trying to tighten the set screw on the upper pulley. Not much room to get your hand around with the allen key. you'd have to be a contortionist!
Wanda, you have to move the motor down on it's mount to tighten the belt. 3/8" deflection when pushing lightly is about right. You may have to pry the motor with a stick to get it tensioned,then tighten the mounting bolts.If you have a helper it is a lot easier.
If the belt looks straight, not off to one side then that is usually good enough. You could cut something for a custom straightedge, wood ,plywood etc . Usually sighting the belt is good enough.
While the belt is off, run the motor a few seconds. If you still have the noise then you know where to start looking. If the noise is abated, then it could be something as simple as a splinter in the cutterhead hitting the base.
Try unplugging the machine, turn the cutterhead by pulling on the belt and listen for the noise.Check the dust chute, might rattle if it is bolted on.Tighten the bolts up if it is loose.
I discovered how to get at the upper pulley and set screw. I had to remove the entire fence. (a matter of loosening up 2 bolts) thus exposing the top pulley. :) Sure enough the top pulley was not in alignment with the bottom pulley. I managed to find a straight piece of wood in my wood pile to use as a straight edge. While sliding the pulley over to align it with the bottom pulley I noticed a bit too much slack/play. The pully has to be replaced and I am also going to replace the belts as well. For the price they charge you'd think they'd install cast iron pulleys on their machines. Thank god the bearings are ok. The cutter head if working fine.
My god! Imagine a pulley having to be replaced on a 2 1/2 year old tool which is hardly used. I'm a weekend woodworker not a cabinet maker. One positive thing I can say about this King Industrial jointer.. It cuts well. My board was as smooth as a babies behind! let's just hope the new pulley stays in place once it is installed. Funny how I had the same problem with the pulleys on my King Industrial contractors saw.
Thanks guys for all the help. Much appreciated
Imagine a pulley having to be replaced on a 2 1/2 year old tool which is hardly used.
The pulley had to be replaced likely because the little chinaman who put it on at the factory didn't tighten it enough. Same thing happened to my 20" Grizzly planer - a week after I got it.
Do yourself a favor and get some blue loktite for the set screw when you tighten the new pulley on the machine. If you can, find a pulley with 2 setscrews. Hope that the pulley being loose did not cause the cutterhead shaft to wallow out.
If the pulleys are mis-aligned, it will create heat which will cause premature failure of the bearings. It will not likely cause the sound you are hearing. I'm not saying to not align the pulleys, I'm saying that's not where the noise problem is coming from. If you are replacing the pulleys, get a link belt.
Edited 9/15/2008 7:57 pm by mapleman
On the topic of noise and jointers: I recently installed a 3 HP single phase motor to replace a three phase motor on a General 780 jointer. When I turn off the jointer there is a shuddering sound as the motor coasts to a stop. Otherwise the machine runs well. There is no vibration at all, even when it shudders, but could be due to it being 1400 lbs of solid cast iron. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this sound?
I have used this machine when it had the original motor in it, and I do not recall any shuddering at shut down. It came out of the high school, where my woodturning club used to meet. Garth
some motors have a built in braking system that when you turn off the motor you will get a sound like you are mentioning. this could be what you are hearing.
The sound is normal. I'm not sure it's a braking system, per se. I think it is a product of something kicking out/off (like the run capacitor). I'm sure Don Green would know. I get it with my 1 hp baldor on a Delta 14" bandsaw and also with my 5 hp motor on my Grizzly planer.
The start circuit is kicking in. Normal for some single phase motors. I have a 3hp Baldor Unisaw motor that would shutter sooo badly on coast down that the Unisaw would shake. Baldor told me to solder a 1M OHM resistor across the capacitor. It didn't work. I ended up extending the wires from the start circuit to the contacts on the LVC so on power off the start circuit was open. Solved the problem. Needless to say, I prefer Marathon motors.DJK
I almost always replace the pulley set screws. I use longer knurled cup set screws. Most pulley's have set screws that are too short. I like to use all the threads in the pulley as this gives more contact area for a dab of loctite.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
The pulley might also have to be replaced because the belt wasn't aligned. That's a pretty common issue on older automobile engines - the belt will put a great deal of wear on a steel pulley, and if it's not aligned properly, it will wear one side of the groove to the point where a standard replacement belt won't run correctly.
You might consider replacing the belt with one of those "twist type" belts advertised to cut down on machine vibration (as well as being adjustable in length - not something you can say about a standard belt).
A comment about the cutter head bearings. With the belt off, you should pull up and push down on the cutterhead shaft in the direction 90 degrees from the axis of rotation. There should be almost no play. If there is, one or more of the bearings are likely shot. Then, push in and pull out on the cutterhead shaft - again, there should be very little play, though some is acceptable. If there's more than a few thousandths, the bearings may be gone, and/or depending on the design of the cutterhead shaft mounting system, may be incorrectly shimmed.
Don't use cast pulley's. If you are going to replace your pulleys get a good set of balance machined steel pulley made by Browning. Buy them from a bearing or power transmission specialist.
Also, give some thought to the Power twist style belts. They don't conform to the shape of the pulley when not in use, reduce vibration and are suppose to require less energy.
Make sure of the size though. Don
The belts you are talking about.. power twist belts are those the same as the link belts LeeValley sells for around $8.00/foot? The woven v belts on my King Industrial jointer are less than 1/2" in width. I'm pretty sure LV only sells the 1/2" width link belt. My pulleys are not that wide. I have 2 on my machine. Perhaps I should taka a picture and post it.
I have the link belt on my 2hp King Industrial contractor saw and it works very well. It has cut down on some of the vibration.
As for the pulleys I will have to check into that.
I tried 1/2" in my jointer and they were to large. House of Tools sells the 3/8" belt. Other must carry them as well.
One thing I do not care for in some of our power tools is the driven pulleys are so small. The belt has such minimal contact with the pulley.Don
Those belts are expensive. $10.95/ft. My god even LeeValley doesn't charge that much for their v-belts. But if they're the only Canadian Company selling them I don't have much of a choice but to pay that amt. if I want to replace the cheap belts that came with my jointer.
Looks like LockTite did the job. The pulley isn't shifting out of place. It's staying put. The shaft is fine. Good thing I discovered the slipping pulley in time. The belts are "crap". so I will replace them with new belts.
I must go downstairs now and measure those belts. See if it's a 3/8" wide belt. Would be better to buy the v-belts instead of a regular woven belt. I have one on my table saw and it has made a difference. Worth the investment.
Instead of the link belts, take the old one (for length and assuming it fit the pulley grove) to your local automotive parts supplier, or Canadian Tire, and buy a belt from them. They are high quality and come in a range of lengths. Made to be flexible on your car even when it's freezing and they are cheap compared to the price of your replacement ones from the maker.
When I found that I couldn't use the 1/2" belts, I reverted to the originals.
Not sure where you live, but you should be able to take the old belt to a PT distributor -find the nearest Gates outlet and see what they have. You could actually try talking directly to Gates or Goodyear first and get a recommendation.
I have some contacts in the PT industry who might be able to give us a better price. I'll get the number off of my belt and see what I can learn.Don.
I don't know how old your machine is. On my old ('70's) Delta jointer, a gradually increasing rattling noise turned out to be a pulley. I don't remember now if it was the top or bottom one, but tightening the setscrew didn't help, because the soft "potmetal" pulley material had wallowed out away from the shaft, and the pulley was rocking back and forth-pivoting on the setscrew- with every rotation of the shaft.
Could be that the belt has just taken a "set". When a belt sets for a long while you will get a "kink" where they rest on the pullys. That can cause some noise but more likely to cause vibration. (Edit section) Looks like you have the problem solved, but here is a tip for pully set screws. Use two short ones!! The second one locks in the first one ( that is if there is enough room for two).
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Edited 9/17/2008 4:35 pm ET by BruceS
Thanks for the tip. I'll keep that in mind. Not sure if 2 set screws will fit.
Rusted pulleys can make a squeak noise.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled