I notice that some Knotheads have used Ipe for deck projects, and I’m leaning in that direction for our new deck. What is your opinion (and why) on whether to let it weather to gray, or using a UV protectant to keep the original color (or close to it)?
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Replies
i guess it want look you want. grey is pretty but the grain in ipe is really beautiful when its treated. i've made some lighthouse out of ipe and the protected then with cabots timber oil (natural) its lasted 6 months without a recoat. ipe is a pain to work with and creates a nasty green dust when cutting it. sharp blades are a must
If you do go the IPE route, try talking to Gray lumber in Tacoma, or Architectural Wood products in Algona, Wash. Don't know about the stuff, but the materai AWP was beastiful and the have it in 5/4x4 and 5/4x6. The 5/4x4(1"x3 1/2") was somewhere around $0.99 linft, if I remember correctly
Hey, thanks so much for the source tips! So far, I've just been using Google to find local sources. Tacoma is much easier to navigate than Seattle when it comes to hauling lumber. The charge for a truck and trailer on the ferry is really steep these days.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie -
My local building supply house (Frontier Building Material) here in Sedro Woolley carries Ipe .... well, you have to order it. They said it comes out of the mill in Port Townsend (?) .... one of those port places, perhaps Port Gamble. (That's just a gamble on my part -hehe)
At any rate, I think it's being pushed as a renewable/sustainably harvested material. I picked up a piece of 1x4 (milled) to use as a frame for our firewood firebox door next to the fireplace (exterior situation) but haven't gotten 'round to working with it. Would appear that previous comments regarding tool sharpness are worth heeding! (grin)
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From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Hi Dennis, how are ya????? Sheesh, I bet it comes from Edensaw in Port townsend. Alot of his stuff is certified. [just a gamble - har har, you're too funny].
I don't know if they provide it in pre-milled deck-sized pieces. Will have to call and find out! I can't imagine milling that much myself on my little Delta planer, and I already used the deck project to weasle a new 12" miter saw out of hubby, can't go there again <g>, got my Christmas present early (PSI overhead guard on sale). Probably not a good idea to campaign for 2005 gifts yet!!
Have a great weekend. Weather's wonderful down here, hope it's the same for you. Feel like I have a cold coming on though, better take some Vit. C and Zinc.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi Forestgirl,
I'm just finishing off a big Ipe deck around my workshop. We already have another one next to the house which was left untreated and has gone a beautiful silver grey. I'm in two minds about whether to try to keep the colouring of the new one though because it is stunning. However, when we built the first one, I made some benches and a table for outside with the left overs which I did treat but even experimenting with a wide variety of oils, they still lost a lot of colour after about 6 months which I think looked less good than just letting them fade to silver.
I'll post some photos when its finished (today or tomorrow hopefully!) but depending on where you live (I'm in England) you do get all the colour and grain back in the rain!
Cheers
Tim
Tim, it's becoming pretty clear that if I don't want to be recoating every year (or more often) I better just let it weather naturally! I thank you for your first-hand report. "Depending on where you live...." -- I live the northwest of USA, and we get rain, rain, and more rain. I'll sit out there with an umbrella and enjoy the grain, LOL!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Its throwing it down today - looks beautiful. Nearly finished - will post photos asap.
T
Hi, Jamie,
I've got about 750 l.f. of 1/6 ipe on my front porch waiting to move out back and onto the new deck I've owed my bride for about 6 months. I'm told that 1x is fine if you're using 16" centers; that will save you some money over 5/4. I paid over $2 per l.f. in the Northeast.
I suggest you bop over to Breaktime and do a search on ipe...there are a lot of discussions there as well as photos of both new and weathered decks. Bear in mind that, whether you decide to finish the deck or not, you MUST seal all end cuts to prevent checking. Your supplier should be able to provide this. Also, there are many options for fasterers, which are also discussed at Breaktime.
Being a boaty sort of guy, I always allowed my teak to weather naturally and then cleaned it periodically. These woods, which are naturally rot and insect resistant, don't particularly like being coated. I plan to let mine age gracefully, as I am aspiring to do myself.
Lofton
Jamie -
Through it all I didn't manage to address your original qestion about whether to let it weather grey or not.
Based on what little I know about the material, I'd say let it weather - considering the aesthic will blend with your house and landscaping. If it weathers as well as it's touted to, the least maintenance you have to ....maintain .... the better. That's my approach anyway.
Of course you need to consider what the deck will be used for .... outdoor eating and BBq'n means possibility of stains from spilled stuff. A finish might be in order if you're as careless as I am (hehe)
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From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Forgot to mention one thing about maintenance (which may also pick up on Dennis' spillage concern).
Once a year I pressure hose the deck down with an antifungal mix.
Seems to work a treat.
"I didn't manage to address your original qestion...." I dunno what we're going to do with you Dennis -- you've lost all sense of focus since you retired, LOL!!
I'm positive now we'll let it weather. I'm not too worried about spills. We don't eat outside that often, and I rarely BBQ (of course, when Nick retires that may change, ha ha). The wild birds poop of course, can't do anything about that!
Do you still read the Seattle paper? Last Sunday, there was a fully outfitted Powermatic in the Sunday Times, sliding table and the whole shebang!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
OK, Jamie - you started the topic drift. Don't blame me if the topic police haul us both in!
No, I've never been one for reading the newspaper. Too much bad news! (grin). As far as the Powermatic goes, I'm wishing I'd saved my money and bought the General from the outfit I bought my lathe from (down in Portland) But I'll suffer through with my Unisaw (hehehe). I guess I'm through buying big woodworking tools 'cept for a bandsaw upgrade one of these days. I'm looking at metal lathes right now - considering the Smithy. Picked up some work (yeah ... I know, retired and all that) so if the job throws off enough to warrant getting a metal lathe I'll be able to make round things out of metal as well as wood. So if you see a good used metal lathe lying around somewhere that needs a home, lemme know!
Bird poo on the deck ..... Going for the nature look, are we? (haha). Actually the Ipe seems so dense I doubt it will penetrate very far. Can't believe you don't do much outdoor living over there on the penninsula. Any time it's nice outside you'll not find me indoors!
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From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I fear not the topic police, especially when it's my thread!!! Wanna talk about Zen and the art of recycling, or how wonderful Edgar Martinez's retirement party was? How 'bout Maine Coone cats? Whatever, LOL!
penninsula?! How dare you -- I live on an island! There isn't any part of the Kitsap penninsula that comes close to being as beautiful as Bainbridge.
The metal-working lathes do come up. Since I'm a compulsive classifieds reader, I'll let you know if I see one there.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Bainbridge .... I knew I was going to get foot in mouth desease when I tried to remember where you were. Oh-well, at least it's west of me one way or the other. (grin)
Yeah, Edgar is a gem. I haven't followed baseball or the Mariners since my son quit playing ball - coached his team all through Little League, Pony/Colt and into Connie Mac then just lost interest. Edgar was bigger than the game with respect to what he meant to Seattle.
I've been looking at the Smithy lathe/mill combo as the ideal hobby machine for what little metal working I do. Unfortunately I don't know enough about this kind of equipment to be able to judge the condition-value of used equipment.
Got any use for about half a cord of spalted birch and london plane turning blanks? I've got so much of that stuff lying out by my shop that it's starting to rot before I can get to it. The spalting on some of the birch is gorgeous! Didn't you always want a lathe!? (hehehe)
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From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
What is a "london plane turning blank"?? That one went right by me. I have a friend who's trying to get into turning, he might be interested in those. What form is the birch in (dimensions)? I just put the riser on my bandsaw, and am about to saw up some maple and madrona logs. Might be up for the birch. We finally got a little utility trailer. Hysterical to look at, but it has hauled well and carried a fair amount of stuff so far.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie -
London plane is a tree. Used frequently as street trees. As near as I can tell that's what this wood is. I was driving along a side street in Bellevue about two years ago and saw these tree guys taking down a rather large specimen. I neglected to get a leaf in order to see if Jon could ID the thing but after looking at several london plane trees (that I knew were such) and comparing the bark I'm (kinda) sure that's what this is.
By turning blanks I mean short pieces split from the log or in some cases ripped with a chain saw. Very little of what I have would be a candidate for president (oops - way too political - thinking about woden heads) I mean re-sawing; the pieces are too short - perhaps only 12-18" long.
The spalted birch is really quite attractive. The (what I think is) london plane (don't know it might be 'plain')) has bleached out somewhat with drying and the spalting is a very dark brown to black which stands out really well in contrast to the wood itself. As for use by a beginning turner it might be pretty frustrating to work with. The punky parts of the blank are very, very difficult (for me) to keep from tearing out and leaving a fuzzy surface. I've had fairly good luck stabalizing this material with tung oil (Daly's) and/or shellac prior to doing the finish turning cuts.
I have a good deal more than I'll use in the next year but .... I'm not turning every day so by that I mean I don't know how much I'd want to get rid of and if it would be worth your while to make the trip over here to get any. On the other hand, we'd enjoy having you over if'n you want to see how a Skagit Co. red neck spends his/her time. (grin)
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From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Dennis, I tried to send you an email, but it got returned. You got a spam-blocker going, or has your address changed? Would you mind emailing me so we can chat off-board? Thanks!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Dennis:
London plane tree: http://www.csupomona.edu/~srkoukol/bot124lab/treewalk/platanusxa.html
http://www.chengappa.demon.co.uk/planes/text/acerifolia.html
http://www.tree-shop.co.uk/products_detail.asp?productheadingID=1002
http://www.queensu.ca/pps/grounds/arboretum/London-planetree.htm
Seems to be related to the American sycamore. Jon A. may have better info.
Regards,Leon Jester
Roanoke VA
Thanks, Leon, for clarifying the species. I would think there might be some relation to the sycamore due to the bark structure but the logs I have exhibit a somewhat thicker bark layer than what I know as sycamore. However the only sycamore I've seen was on our just completed trip through AZ where I saw quite a bit of what one park ranger identified as "Arizona" sycamore. The bark peeled from the trunk much like our madrona trees here in the NW.
Thanks again.
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From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Maine Coon Cats? We've got one of those...
Wow! She's a silver! She is gorgeous. Aren't they great? My Sophie has the most wonderful personality. Comes when I whistle for her, carries little plastic bags around from room to room when she's coming into heat (practicing, I think), quite the hunter (voles, mice out in the field), talks up a storm. Unfortunately, I think her color disqualifies her from the breed standard. She was given to me by the daughter of the breeder -- the other cats in the household were having serious cat-fits about a new member.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Cokie is a neat cat. We got her for my wife so she could raise a kitten...before that she (my wife) was rather nervous around adult cats. Cokie may be a bit over-bred...she loves food but does not hunt. Her teeth need to be cleaned every year. And because of the former she tends to be overweight...21 pounds. Most of that is due to her breed.
Her favorite pasttime is to sit on the steps by the sidewalk in front of our house and greet people as they walk by. It's not unusual for me to look out and see someone sitting on the step in deep conversation with Cokie.
"It's not unusual for me to look out and see someone sitting on the step in deep conversation with Cokie. " I can believe that!
One of Sophie's favorite times of the year is coming up -- Christmas! When I have a stack of tissue paper lying on the floor for wrapping, she lies down on it and we play "spin the kitty on the tissue paper" -- Wheeeeeeee! Since she's almost a yard long from nose to tail-tip, it's pretty impressive. She curls up around my hand and I spin her like a bottle, tee hee.
Weight gain: We have a Siamese-cross cat who got up over 20 pounds (when she should have been around 12). I tried all those "light" foods and stuff, which only led her to gain weight. Last year I put her on an all-canned-food diet, and she lost 5 pounds! It worked! Carefully weighed out 3 oz. each meal (the prescribed amount for 11lbs or so), fed her twice a day, and voila! Worth thinking about, as the extra weight is really hard on their heart and joints.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 10/5/2004 12:59 pm ET by forestgirl
Jamie -
Edensaw - spot on! That's the sticker that was on the sample piece Frontier had on the counter. I bought the one stick thinking it would make some nice glue up segmented pieces for turning. Then priced a custom made door and frame for this fireplace woodbox project and realized I'd be better off building the thing myself. (sorry for the divert - just to explain why I have the stuff). But like I said, haven't had much time to work with it. Just hefting the one piece around it would appear that one should pre-drill all the holes for nails/screws for use on a deck.
No, I wouldn't relish milling enough for a deck, either.
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From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Dennis, did you ever go to the Environmental Home Center on 4th Ave. S & about Horton??? I drove over there today to check out the Ipe, not realizing that the business burned down on August 11th! Very sad! They're working at finding replacement warehouse space and getting back up and running, but doesn't sound like they have much more than office space currently.
According to news reports, they were the first "sustainable building supplier" in the US.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Yeah - I visited their store a couple of times. Unfortunately the product that I was researching (bamboo flooring) is an established sustainable resource available from several other less expensive sources. The other stuff I glanced through seemed on the pricey side as well.
Sad to hear about the fire. In spite of the elevated prices (from what little comparison I did) I applaude their business approach.
Did you get my email? I sent you and E (grin)
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From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Hi, Put in an ipe deck last year, and an addition this summer. Ipe is extremely hard, and you need to pre-drill for screws for sure. Tried to nail a couple of pieces and ended up with alot of bent nails. Make sure the boards are not warped, I tried to flatten one board that had a 1/4 warp at one end with a couple of big c-clamps, I finally backed off before the clamps or my arms gave out. Put an oil finish on the original deck and it looked great; after putting in the addition I decided to use the pressure washer (no cleaner, just water) to clean up. The oil finish rolled off, so I decided the leave them both bare. They,re weathering to a nice silver gray, but turn brown again when wet. Be careful of tiny splinter (they can sting, and are hard to get hold of) when handling and after first installation; but the year old section is now totally splinter free. Sanding will bring up tiny splinters again. Gave some cut-offs to a friend to put in his fireplace, but he couldn't get it to burn. I expect the deck will be standing longer than me. Sure beats the look of pressure treated. Good luck!
Stick 'em in a woodburner - they give off a lot of heat!
Thanks for the first-hand report boju. I've successfully campaigned to use the Ipe for the deck and am excited about building it! Glad you mentioned the thing about splinters, as I wouldn't have guessed that sanding will make them worse.
Not sure when we'll get started on this project -- Nick has hunting season coming up soon (deer and elk). Hopefully, the weather in November won't be too bad. Otherwise, we'll end up waiting until spring :-(
Did you do your rails with Ipe also, or just the deck??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hopefully I was of some help. Some people apparently are using ipe on 3ft centers, I used 2ft. Deck is close to the ground, so don't need railings, but there are dealers who carry them. I ripped some of the boards to a thickness of 1/4in and made a lattice screen to match. Got the lumber yard folks to save me the stickers and have been using them for a number on small projects for the deck, ie. planters, etc. Take care when sawing, especially in the shop, as it produces lots of fine dust that flies everywhere.
Very helpful, thanks. I've heard about the dust. Plan to use long sleeves and respirator. I have enough trouble with cedar and spalted maple, don't even want to think about how it would go breathing Ipe. How many saw blades did you go through ripping for the lattice work? Whoa!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I didn't have any trouble with my carbide tipped blades, took it easy and didn't try to force it. Needed cleaning a couple of times though. Cut a couple with the skillsaw with a regular deck blade, the blades came in second.
Finally finished mine (couple of weeks ago). Already going silver. You can just see the edge of the older one in one of the photos. The bit under the overhang is going to be a log store and two large cupboards, one for my extractor and compressor and the other for garden tools. The dogs have already claimed it as their own! The odd looking corner is for a large plant pot so something can grow up the corner post.
Purely as an indulgence I have also added a photo I took yesterday out walking the dogs. Basically if you walk up the field you can see in the deck photos and keep going for about a mile then this is the view - not bad eh!
Cheers
T
WOW!! Gorgeous view!! Oh, I like the deck too, LOL. Handsome doggers you have there. Where do you live? Lush farmland, from all appearances.
My husband's waiting to get a lab or golden retriever (for hunting), but in the meantime we have Boo the Collie to keep us company. Adopted him last year, he's a wunderdog!
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Pic taken at a friend's horse ranch, where he romps with her dog.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Okay now we're in trouble - comparing dogs! He is very handsome - how come your husband hasn't got the lab yet (go far labs and go for black I say!)?
The place is Herefordshire on the Welsh Borders (but very importantly in England). The line of hills in the background is Offa's Dyke - the ancient border. Couldn't resist but I've added a few more photos!
When are you getting started on the deck? I found I had enough left over to make some tables and benches - maybe worth ordering extra when you do go ahead. Don't need to treat these either!
Cheers
T
Toooo funny, I love the doggie-cubicle in the work bench! And your snow picture is gorgeous too. Labs: We had a chocolate lab for several years, went to doggie heaven. Nick's working out-of-state right now, and one dog's about all I want to take on by myself (with the two cats), especially since we don't have a fenced yard, so they can't just go out and play with each other unsupervised. He loves labs, but I guess he's always wanted a golden. We'll see what comes along when it's the right time.
More pics, more pics! Boo gets the couch fairly often. Pic below was yesterday when he was exhausted from 4 hours at Doggie Day Care with about 15 other dogs. He insists on a pillow, LOL! There's a rare snow pic too (we don't get much in Puget Sound).
Your area is really, really beautiful. You are a "lucky dog" LOL!
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forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
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