I’m looking to build a pair of interior french doors for a friend. My friend doesn’t use a portion of their house and they are looking to close it off to save on energy costs, cut down on where the dogs/cats roam, etc.
Doors will each be about 80″ tall and 28″ wide. They would like a single glass panel (full length) in each door. I’ve never built a passage door and am just trying to gather some ideas on how I would go about such a thing.
A few questions…
1) I’m concerned about wood movement. They would like stained pine like the rest of the interior trim. With wider rails and stiles the movement will be more then in a typical cabinet door. My shop is currently cool and dry so I’m thinking i should plan for some amount of expansion. Any idea how much to expect?
2) I’m also concerned about wood warpage. I’ve had a larger cabinet door warp in our kitchen and had to replace it. Not a big deal when it’s in my own house but i don’t want this to happen to something i make for somebody else. I’m thinking of maybe laminating two 3/4 pieces together for the rails and stiles. Good idea? Waste of time and effort?
3) How large of a mortise and tennon (or loose tennon) to connect the rails and stiles?
4) Glass will be tempered but I’m not sure how thick it needs to be. Any thoughts?
Any other warnings or things to consider would be helpful as well.
Thanks,
Mike in MI
Replies
That to me is a lot of glass. Our son has a (maybe) 8 paned interior door leading to a hallway--looks like a single french door. Just my opinion, FWIW! ;o)
That much glass is gonna be HEAVY! (And pricey.) If you're going with pine, you'll need to keep it pretty beefy -- say 12"-14" bottom rail at least. Any chance you can use southern yellow pine? If so, I would. Quartersawn if you can get it. I would definately use either traditional thru M&T joinery, or laminated door construction, and stay away from rail & stile bit/stub tennon joinery. I'd also bed the glass in silicone for additional stability and use a removeable bead. The glass shop will be able to spec the glass - different guages are sometimes used depending on the area of the glass. I'd talk to them first to get an idea of the weight so you'll know what you're dealing with. Also, keep in mind that building inspectors in some jurisdictions want to see the "Tempered Glass" stamp right on the glass, so ask about that at the glass shop as well. Even if it's not a code issue for you (e.g., no inspection), make sure the HO keeps the receipt since it's sometimes an issue in a subsequent house sale.
Also, if you think making them is a challenge, wait'll you try hangin' 'em! First thing you're going to need to do is to make sure the frame is *perfectly* planar and plumb, and the jams are perfectly parallel. If they aren't -- fix them first. You'll be glad you did later. Also, the adjustable hinges will be well worth the extra expense for hanging these doors. I'd plan on at least 3 per. And french door hardware is pretty specialized -- you need a way to latch the secondary door. That either means surface-mounted hardware that throws a bolt at the top, and usually the bottom, or an internal bolt that you need to plan for in your design. French doors are definately a project where the "buy your hardware first" addage is important.
FWIW, you can probably buy stock doors cheaper than building them, but I understand that's sometimes not the issue.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
>And french door hardware is pretty specialized -- you need a way to latch the secondary door. That either means surface-mounted hardware that throws a bolt at the top, and usually the bottom, or an internal bolt that you need to plan for in your design. French doors are definately a project where the "buy your hardware first" addage is important.In my current and previous house we just used oversized bullet catches on both doors (mounted on the top of the door, naturally) and "dummy" door handles - functional, much simpler, but not as fancy.
"oversized bullet catches on both doors (mounted on the top of the door, naturally) and "dummy" door handles - functional, much simpler, but not as fancy"
Good point. But still, decide on the hardware first.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I don't THINK you will be able to find stock doors that size, but you might. The glass should be single pane tempered and the weight should not be much of an issue for true stile and rail doors. Make them either 1 3/8" or 1 3/4" thick to match industry standards. The size of the hinges will depend on the thickness of the doors. Ball catches will work fine, but your dogs will figure them out pretty quickly.
If your stiles are straight and stable in the shop, they should stay that way on an interior installation like you have here.
As stated before, that frame should be plumb, level, and square to minimize all sorts of potential problems down the road.
Unless you're set on building the doors yourself, do some shopping around. Get the rough opening measurements and talk to a couple of real door shops. They could probably make a prehung unit much quicker and cheaper than you could make even one of the doors.
Last summer, I put a 10 light, paint grade, 3-0 x 6-8, pocket door in my daughters house. We got the door and track hardware at Home Depot for ~$225, and it took ~2 hours to install. It's a true divided light door and the "glass" is actually an acrylic.
If I were doing your job, I would look at getting two door "blanks" and having them prehung - or making the jambs myself.
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