Interested in a DesignCad users group?
OK, the other CAD thread prompted me to order DesignCad 3D Max V14 tonight. The package comes with one “fundamentals” instruction CD, so I’m anticipating some struggles beyond that.
I’m thinking it’d be cool to use this thread to help each other out learning the program (jeez, that was a bad sentence). If you haven’t heard about the program, it was given very good reviews in FWW awhile back, and since version 15 is out now, version 14 is selling for a mere $19.95 + shipping. Here:
http://www.nothingbutsoftware.com/catalog_type.asp?ProductCode=30705
So, if you have the program or have ordered it, please Sign In Here! Thanks!
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Replies
Forestgirl,
I just bought version 15 last month. I have read the book and been through the tutorial. The tutorial makes it look easier than it is. Even though I work in the computer industry and am quite comfortable with software packages, it is slow going. My first advice is to save multiple versions of your project. Trial and error are a big factor here and I have found that some mistakes are easier to fix by starting over. However, saving mulitple copies will let you go back to a point in time where you still have a good drawing. This has allways been a good technique whenever I am try new software. If you are having trouble with some functions post them. We'll learn together.
Burly.
Thanks for the headsup. $25.90 with shipping is a fantastic price.
ASK
Forestgirl,
I couldn't resist the $19.95 price, and I ordered V14. I had evaluated the software a year ago and thought it was pretty good (I like the numerous keyboard shortcuts, especially the ones to create a 3D rectangle to the size you want). I'd be interested in a users' forum, one where tips and plans can be shared. Sort of a supplement to the tutorials, and also a place where designs could be swapped for those interested in doing so.
BTW, I see you live on BI. My PhD advisor lived on Brackenwood, and I spent many weekends out of Port Madison or Eagle Harbor racing out in the Sound. Great place. Did McDs ever force their way onto the Island?
Paul
Hi Paul! Those sound like wonderful weekends! "Did McDs ever force their way onto the Island?" Wow, that's ancient history. Yep, they sure did, intersection of High School Road and the highway. The island has changed so much since that was a question!! You wouldn't believe it. I just wish they'd let a Taco Bell in here, it's a complete drag having only one fast food place available, especially with it being McDonald's!!
BTW, when you were around, the town was Winslow and the rest of the island was county. Well, "the rest of the island" incorporated Winslow into it and now it's the City of Bainbridge Island.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I am not really familiar with DesignCad. I have AutoCad lite which I really like. I also have the full blown version of Auto Cad and to be honest I only use about 10% of it. The AutoCad lite is much more affordable and for the average wood worker it is plenty of program.
It is very affordable, about $900, compared to Auto Cad which has a lot I will never use.
Do you or anyone know of any book or class that teaches how to draw the 3-D drawings we commonly see in the magazines and plans. I have been trying to draw an exploded view like the magazines and it never turns out quite right. My dimensions are extremely accurate but the view is less than desirable. I cannot find any way to get the color, woodgrain, or shadows accurate.
I realize this is not exactly what you were discussing and I apologize. I just got excited to see someone interested in drawing and hope either you or someone reading this will have some expertise on the subject.
Tryhard, no problem jumping in for help here. I'm pretty sure there are several AutoCad users here at Knots. What I'd suggest you do is start a thread titled "AutoCad Learning Resources???" in Gen. Discussions. That should get you some specific responses, and hopefully a list of on-line places to go for help.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Tryhard -
AutoCad LT won't really render 3D drawings - that's one big reason why it costs so much less than the full blown AutoCad.
You can do isometric or perspective drawings in LT but it takes a bit of doing and you'll need to get really familiar with the UCS command - lol.
Forestgirl,
I have been using 2D cad for about 18 years but never took the time to learn 3D. As you will see in my other post I bought Designcad V14 . I have always thought that the instructions that come with the cad programs (and I have used at least 8 or 10 of them) are lacking in showing how to draw a complete something. Take you through all the steps. My thought is to develop a tutorial with sequential steps to actually draw a real something from start to finish. Say a table.
A user group could develop the tutorial together. At the end we would all be able to draw it and could cover many of the different commands.
My sense is that we start with setting up the page, scale, and other parameters.
Next, line drawing to make the shape, etc.
Someone would have to keep the a record of the exact steps so that at the end the whole thing would be available to anyone who wanted to use it.
To be continued. Any thoughts on this will be appreciated
Have to get ready for turkey
ASK
ASK, that's a great idea! I'm just skimming posts right now, but I'm sure we'll come up with some embellishments. Have a great Thanksgiving.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl,
Thanks,
Did have a nice Thanksgiving. I'll be away until Dec 7. Expect the software to be delivered while I'm away. Once I'm back I'll get started trying to figure out how to use it. See if you can get some other people interested in learning it as I suggested or try and design something simple we can work on to learn.
ASK
HEY GURL! I just ordered it , so count me in .
Steinmetz.
Maybe I won't need you to relay my scrawls and 'tatchments anymore?
Stein.
Edited 11/26/2004 1:40 pm ET by steinmetz
Edited 11/26/2004 1:46 pm ET by steinmetz
Go for it! We should all be having a great time in a couple of weeks.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG,
Great idea! I bought v15 a couple of months ago, went through the initial tutorial and am really struggling. My problem is that I've been using Visio for years and am having a lot of 'senior moments' trying to adapt to a different environment. For instance, in order to draw a panel in Visio, I simply drag a 'square' icon onto the drawing page and modify the dimensions; ditto for other shapes. In no time at all, I can combine shapes to create a reconizable object. I'm sure I can get the hang of DesignCAD if I spend the time on it, but I'm just too comfortable with Visio, I guess.
Having said all that, I'll follow the thread and see if someone says what it takes to get the message through my thick skull!!!
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Could always start a Yahoo Group (free), for "DesignCad for Woodworkers" - or a more general group, "CAD for Woodworkers".
I have DesignCad 14 3D Max, plus all tutorial CD's. I started going through them, but realized I wasn't ready to do my own woodworking designs yet.
David Genrich
Count me in too.
I picked up DesignCad V15 and like the rest of you am having a hard time getting off the ground. It would have helped in designing the shop - sigh.
Soon-to-be furniture maker
Port Townsend, WA
Wow, it looks like everyone bought so many copies the raised the price to $35.
That is the MAX version at $35, we got the regular version for $19.95. They may have sold out of the version we bought. I don't know what the difference is in the two programs.
I just received mine today, hope to load it soon. I think a large learning curve is ahead!
Woody
Hey Gurl,
Got my copy yesterday.
Waiting for my son to set it (And me ) up.
Grazed through the manual and it looks intriguing (Read 'Hard')
Steinmetz
Got my copy in this afternoon's mail, installed it and have gone through the brief tutorial included. Have come to a couple of conclusions:
It's probably a well-designed program -- lots of shortcuts, icons to use
They definitely don't want you to figure out 3D stuff on your own (they'd rather you purchase the additional tutorials)!
So! Our very first Support Group Question: Has anyone successfully drawn a solid 3D object (a box, for instance). I've not succeeded in doing this. I've drawn a plane, then extruded it, and gotten what looks (from the front) like a box, but from the top and side it's still flat. I guess I'll look at the manual later tonight.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I have my copy now, too. I evaluated this software last year and yes, I've drawn boxes no problem. There are keyboard shortcuts that are excellent for doing this.
Recommendation: do the "Drawing a Table in DesignCAD" mini tutorial, available off the help menu.
Also key to any drawing/CAD program is to understand the coordinate system and drawing scale. If this sentance makes no sense to you, start reading the manual at the beginning.
To draw a box, a key concept and command you need to know is the point xyz command (the colon (:) key). This command will move the cursor in 3-space to a point where you want to go.
Say I want to draw a box with the top left located at my coordinate origin (0,0,0). The box is to be 15 units long, 4 units wide, and 3/4 unit high. That is, I want to draw a piece of wood that is 15x4 and 3/4" thick.
Drawing a box (the box command, or "]" as a keyboard shortcut) consists of specifying the opposite corners of the box.
To draw:
Type ] (box command)
Type : (move xyz) and enter 0 0 0 in the dialog box for x,y,z (then hit enter to set the point)
Type : again and enter 15 for x, .75 for y, and 4 for z (then enter to create the box).
You should see a wireframe of the box.
Note that the dimensions were not entered as length, width and height; you need to get accustomed to the coordinate system if you want your drawings to be "upright."
The next help should be in setting the drawing dimensions. It's easy to get "lost in space" in CAD programs if you don't know how to navigate.
Hope this helps!
Paul
Hi Paul, thanks for the shortcuts. I tried your system, and it worked (of course!). I understand the XYZ coordinates. I'll definitely find that exercise your referred to.
I still want to get the "click and drag" methods to work though. Just 'cause. In the little demonstration they provided, they drew a plane and then using the Extrude command, turned it into a solid box. Haven't had any luck with this yet, however, by reading about the Box Command in the manual I was able to do it that way. Makes more sense, anyway, than drawing planes.
To ALL: The manual is essentially a Command Guide, with all of the commands listed in alphabetical order, followed by descriptions of how to access each command and how to execute it. Not something you'd want to read page-by-page necessarily. Last night, I looked up the Box Command, Extrude Command, Animation (that's going to be fun!) and a couple others. Pretty good explanations of where, what and how.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
If you want to do click and drag in 3D, you will need to get proficient in moving the cursor in 3D. Since the mouse works in 2D, mouse dragging is limited to one plane at a time. This requires using (I think) the CTR key to shift between XY and YZ planes. I found it tricky.
Everyone finds what works best for themselves. What I recall working for me was to use the move XYZ command to draw components, and then to use the 2D projection planes to move the piece to a new location.
One of my next exercises will be to learn how to add a tenon to a piece. I plan on using the solid add command to fuse a tenon onto the shoulder of the piece I'm drawing; you can do the equivalent of cutting the tenon using other commands, but it will take more steps to do the same thing. This works for me because I usually design with the shoulder-shoulder length in mind, and add length for tenons when generating my cut lists.
Anyone want to give a short summary on how to set up the coordinate workspace (dimensions, units, origin)?
Happy version 14ing
Paul
I'd like to make a suggestion for our posts in this thread, one that will hopefully make it easier for us to find pertinent posts (it looks like it's going to be a very long thread!). Suggestion is that at the beginning of the post, we type in bold the main subject. For instance:
Making tenons using "Solid Add"
Then the description here.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Updating Version 14
I found I had to fetch the most recent update for Version 14 to be able to have a complete help menu, including the tutorial Paul referenced. Here's the link:
http://www.imsisoft.com/support/designcad/updates.aspPick the version you have (Express or Max)
There are some forums and other groups listed on their Technical Support page.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Mouse dragging on the Z axis
Hi Paul, thanks again. To drag on the Z axis, you hold the control+shift keys down simultaneously. I just finished a cabinet drawing by using the box command and clicking once to establish my beginning point, dragging to the width and height desired, then (without a click) holding down the control+shift keys and dragging out to the desired depth.
I think using the dialog boxes to provide coordinates will be the ultimate way to draw. It's easy enough, since you can set the thing for feet and inches. For practice though, I 'm enjoying using the mouse. You can also user the arrow buttons to move the cursor, which would work pretty well.
I like the idea of switching to 2D to move things. Please let us know what works best for you in drawing tenons.
OK, spent my alloted time this morning (I could fool with this all day! It's fun!). Hopefully, someone will pop in with that summary you asked for. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG,
How many tutorial CDs did you recevie? I think the FWW article mentioned three tutorials,but I apparently only received the one. I recived the Max version, even though the manual simply says "DesignCAD" -- is that what everyone else received? I foresee along learning curve ahead for me -- I hope I can find the time and patience!
Woody
Tutorials
Hi Woody. The FWW editors posted a correction of sorts about the tutorial CDs. Evidently, IMSI sent them the basic tutorial CD that's included in "our" package plus two other CD's that cost extra.
Not to worry though, I really think it's possible to learn what we need to without the additional tutorials. Go through the fundamental CD a couple of times, then use the tutorials that are provided in the Help menu (NOTE!!! You may have to download the update to Version 14 to get those tutorials. See my post above for the link. If you have connection problems and just can't get it downloaded, let me know, I'll mail it to you on CD).
I haven't tried those tutorials yet, but I'm pretty sure they'll lay the groundwork pretty well.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi Forestgirl.
I was wondering if you ever got that designCad application running and what you thought of it? I found a good deal on it and I'm thinking of buying it, but I'd like to get some feedback before I make a decision.Also has anyone compared this with The E-cabinet software? I've been messing with E-cab and it has a few quirks/bugs that are annoying. I know it can import CAD drawings so I was wondering if doing basic design in the CAD program would be better than doing the design in E-CAB. Then I could import the thing into E-CAB to do the final design.Any thoughts are appreciated!Thanks,
Edited 1/15/2005 10:58 am ET by Mbiker
I set the DesignCade program aside when the holidays got busy, and have to get going on it again. I figured out in the beginning that I'll have to go through the tutorial step-by-step since I don't have any CAD experience at all.
Based on what I've seen so far, though, and others' feedback, I think the program is a great way to go, and certainly a good deal $$-wise. I have eCab too, but never could figure it out. Too much of a beginner I think.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I've had designcad for a while now and I use it as my primary home CAD. It's really good for banging out designs quickly. I found a copy of version 14 online for $15. (it was a Yahoo store called purplus I believe). There is very little difference between version 14 and version 15, so I recommend saving some money and trying to get version 14.
Yep, that Version 14 thing is what started the whole discussion way back when (November??). Several of us bought it, but we haven't gotten this thread started moving yet. Sounds like you might be able to help us out when we're stumped!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie -I've got about 20 years of CAD experience (AutoCAD) behind me - For the most part, CAD is CAD by any other name .... just vector graphics. If I can offer any help don't be afraid to ask. I don't have Design CAD available so I probubbly don't know the exact command structure but ....
a line is a line, too. (grin)The most critical part is understanding that you're drawing, so to speak, at full scale. If like most CAD applications you have the option of using object snaps to attach a new line to the end of an existing one, that's the most accurate way to create geometry. Once you've created an accurate model of your work you can then 'ask' the program to reveal about any dimension you need............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
wow, I feel so smart -- I know what "object snaps" are!
You got it Dennis, I'll be lookin' for you with questions.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie -Just remember that CAD never made anyone a good designer. But it does allow anyone to do more bad design faster! (grin) ....Not making any comments about -your- design but; I'm always dismayed when I see people asking about 'design' software............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I've been using DCAD for my latest new design & was expecting to post my results in the next day or two. This plan involved learning many of the commands and figuring out how to get the program to do what I want. Having it trace a half-ellipse along a bezier curve to shape the edges of the table legs was very instructive--that is, it taught my kids all sorts of new curse words.
I've found some annoying bugs in the program, too, when solid subtract, or or segregate commands are used multiple times on a solid (like, when cutting out three drawer holes in the skirt). Maybe I'll do a separate post on these and how to get around them.
One thing about using the CAD program versus my usual sketching--the program helped me identify a design problem that would not have been easily found or remedied unless I pursued the mock up stage further than I usually do. The program made it relatively easy to try several options to get the desired design without sacrificing structural strength and rigidity.
Perhaps one thing we can do in this thread is to exchange materials files for new wood types--ones that look good when shading the result.
Till I post again...
Paul
Paul -Do you know what type of solids modeling engine is used in DesignCAD?...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I've been using VectorWorks (fomerly MiniCAD) for about five or six years now. I use an Apple computer.
It works, it was expensive, and its not very efficient.
Probably the reason I'm grumpy is that I've done Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator (a vector drawing program) for 12 years. These Apps once learned are fairly efficient with keyboard shortcuts for repeatative tasks. Guess they spoiled me. The vector drawing controls in Illustrator work great- VectorWorks vector controls are almost impossible to acheive anything with. You'd think they'd operate similarly.
VectorWorks has been a continual hassle, the literature and the website say you can make macros to create shortcuts-but I don't find that particularly helpful. It's like saying you can weld a trailer hitch on your car and install a radio and install a car alarm and -at what point do you realize you didn't get what you thought you bought? Also when you weld a trailer hitch it doesn't disappear because your computer crashed.
The VectorWorks manuals and the one after market book I purchased were terrible. After that I wasn't too excited about paying an additional several hundred bucks to attend seminars.
I've heard from Architects that the other CAD apps are about the same-but the major ones are better supported and you can pay more bucks to get the shortcuts you need. Golly and I used to hem and haw over spending $15 on a platic template.
Will -That's disgusting to hear such a poor report on MiniCAD/Vectorworks. I don't know a thing about it, having been an AutoCAD geek for decades but from those I've heard dicuss it, they thought MiniCAD was the ulitimate solution for the Mac platform.For years AutoCAD users were faced with the same sort of thing with respect to macro development. A true, bonafide Acad user was expected to be reasonably fluent in AutoLISP as well .... just for developing custom applications for an otherwise pretty spendy piece of software! At least Autodesk paid attention and managed to incorporate (read that as 'swallow up little third party developers) much of the functionality of these customization apps.I'm not helping your situation but don't have much to offer. I do know a fellow who was at one time a Mac devotee - he had a program called Canvas that he thought was the end-all drafting program. Again, I don't know a thing about it. I'm presuming it's a Mac app. - you'll have to check. Perhaps it would be a better route for ya?...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Thanks for the response Dennis. AutoCAD seems to be the standard.
I'm a little leary of making Macros. I've recorded buttons in Photoshop and once used a Mac program called Quickkeys, but what I've found always happens is that you wind up putting in more hours than you ultimately save because either the computer crashes in a way that wipes out the macros or the software or OS changes rendering the macros obsolete.
And I though I probably use VectorWorks every other day, I never really feel like its really there to help. The big difference (of VectorWorks and any expensive CAD) over the really inexpensive CAD app I first used is: Accuracy-you can set the tolerances and really use them. The plot of the drawing is based on the parameters I set instead of something to do with screen resolution. There's also a 3D RenderWorks add on that I bought and used two or three times.
Where the accuracy comes in handy is that I can design the leg of a table at 10 degrees and then add a shelf 12" from the floor and get accurate measurements. But I think most of us here tinker enough anyway that we would probably never fully rely on drawing dimensions anyway. Too many things happen on the way to the table saw.
One thing I discovered. If I made a 10" ruler in Illustrator and printed it out--it was always just a hair out, but the VectorWorks rulers were always correct. But that's a lot to pay $800 for.
I wouldn't recomend VectorWorks.
Will -I have, on occasion, printed out full scale layouts of stairs for clients that can be pasted on the walls to aid in construction. One thing you need to remember that paper is a wood product. Thus it can be affected my moisture content in the air as well. Not that a printout of a ruler would be subject to a lot of movement but ... you never know.Guess I don't understand the issue of the losing macros with a crash if they've been written to disk. AutoLISP (for Acad) is a simple ascii file that you load into the drawing session. AutoLISP is actually a programming language that Acad interprets to drive the program.Like you, I get the dimensions from the drawing, go to the shop and cut the first few pieces of the project. From then on I usually have to confirm that the dimensions for the rest of the pieces fit the first few members. (grin) .... would that my woodworking skills were as accurate as my CAD software!
...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I also used AutoCAD for years. I think I started around 1988. I ran a CAD group in an engineering environment. AutoCAD was pretty inefficient until I taught myself AutoLISP and began writing routines to customize standard procedures that we needed, such as drawing HVAC ducts with various fittings, diffusers, electrical symbols, plumbing piping, etc.. By the time I retired in 2000, I had about 1000 routines in use by our draftsmen in several offices.
Once I retired, I couldn't afford the full AutoCAD program so I bought IntelliCAD 2001. This works like AutoCAD and runs the LISP routines. Course I don't need them now for woodwork projects.
I never ran AutoCAD 3D at work. When I played with it at home, I found it very difficult to work with. Again I had no formal training in 3D techniques.
I keep my eyes open for a good 3D program and actually found one and downloaded it a little over a year ago. I can't recall its name now. It was spectacular and was a free download. Really neat technology. When I tried to use it about 4 months ago, after it sat unused on my PC for several months, I found that it no longer accepted the unlock key I had been given. When I returned to their site, that FREE package was no longer available.
Brian
Hi Brian -I, too, was involved with the AutoCAD user group in Bellevue WA for several years. Those were the days, right! Back when the CAD geeks were some kind of wierdo's who could actually make the program do something ... before windoze made it possible for any fool to try, and all the fools did! (haha - just kidding)Glad to hear you're using IntelliCAD and supporting the open source movement. One of the members of our user group worked for a major mech. contractor in Seattle. He single handedly detailed all the equipment for part of the Microsoft campus expansion. In 3D. All the equipment was built on skids, shipped to the job site and it all bolted together without a problem. I was amazed! But he had some pretty nifty tools to work with - add-on apps for AutoCAD.The few people I know from back in that era that attempted 3D were using the lame surface modeling tools. It wasn't until Autodesk incorporated solids modeling in the form of the ACIS solids modeling engine that 3D became a viable tool in AutoCAD, as far as I'm concerned.More to the subject of the thread, though, - have you ever tried this Design CAD? The images and proceedures I see posted here and described give me the impression it's a pretty powerful product............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
NO, to the use of DesignCAD. I have been following this thread to see if it was a suitable 3D product. Doesn't sound as though it would hold a candle to the one I talked about in my previous reply. Wish I could remember its name...
Just checked through my PC and did a Google search. Could find nothing. Wish I had bought that package, if it was affordable.
Brian
P.S. Just did another Google search and found the software package I demo'ed. It was Pro/Desktop from PTC (http://www.ptc.com/). The page for Pro/Desktop is: http://www.ptc.com/appserver/it/icm/cda/icm01_list.jsp?group=201&num=1&show=y&keyword=355
I couldn't find a price for the product. Obviously they no longer support the entry level (free) users any more or even allow time limited trial downloads. What a pity! However, the product I downloaded from them was GREAT, but difficult to learn.
Brian
Edited 1/26/2005 1:07 am ET by x372sailor
Brian -We're talking about a whole different degree of CAD functionality between Pro-E and something like Design CAD! Definitely Pro-E, Solid Works, Inventor and that class of software is in the stratosphere both with respect to power and .... price. But if you're looking for something in the (around) $1,000(US) price level, go to http://www.mcneel.com and check out their Rhino NURBS modeling package. McNeel has also developed ray tracing and radiosity rendering apps compatible with Rhino along with key frame animation and some others. As a casual Rhino user I can attest for its power and accuracy. Besides, it's a lot of fun!...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
"I couldn't find a price for the product." Definitely over 20 bucks, eh? As Dennis said, you're talkin' about two different animals. DesignCad is exactly the kind of program I need for dinkin' around with 3D drawings, and I don't have 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 hundred dollars to spend on the activity. If it has a few glitches, it's no biggie since I'm not running a CNC process.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I wonder why they were allowing casual users like me to download it (Pro/Desktop)gratis last year. It was very impressive and a big disappointment when it quit working after a period of inactivity.
Brian
Brian -It's to some degree rather common to have software developers offer 'trial ware' with some form of restriction in order to give the potential user a chance to determine if it fullfills the user's needs. Qitting working after a specified period of time is called 'time bomb' software. Sometimes they'll offer 'cripple ware' that won't let you save your file, won't permit printing hard copy or will only launch for a certain number of sessions. Personally I think it's a great idea to have access to a fully functional version of a $5-8k piece of software to test it out before plunking down that kind of money............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Jamie -If you know where I can buy Pro-E for 6, 7, or even $800 please let me know! I'll pop for it in a heartbeat. Last I was aware it was in the $5k range. Well worth it if you're a heavyweight industiral designer but way overkill for the occasional jewelery box! (grin)...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Dennis, I didn't have the **foggiest** idea how much it might be! I must admit, while I thought it might be over 1K, I had no idea it could be 5X that amount. The fact that a google produced absolutely z-e-r-o information about price might have been a tip, though, LOL.BTW, if I do find a copy for $800, you'll be able to find it on eBay. Search seller name forestgirl, ROFL!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie -Yeah, some of this industrial strength mechaniacal design software is really out there in price. But considering what it can do in the realm of rapid prototyping, CNC interfacing and such it's worth every penny to the folks that need it. A friend of mine who used to work for a soft drink company single handedly designed an entire bottleing setup, all the conveyors, motors (with hp, rpm specs et.al.) using (I think) Pro-E. But ....For one of the best buys in free-form NURBS modeling products, I repeat - you have to look pretty hard to beat McNeel's Rhino for price/performance value............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Pretty quiet on this thread... Here's my take on
DesignCAD after approx 20 days into it.
I used my 15 day evaluation period of DesignCAD to design a
built-in cabinet for a former closet in my daughter's room. I struggled
for a while since the
downloadable evaluation copy didn't come with any tutorials.
The online help is ok but not very detailed.
After two weeks of consistent use, I feel I have a
pretty good handle on using it with case good projects. I've attached the
cabinet design I created in v14 format in a zipped file (96 Kb). It is a
multi-layered drawing. The following three layers are aligned spatially so
when they shown together, you see the entire cabinet:
Here are jpegs of the
shaded and
wireframe
drawings of the entire assembly.
I created exploded views on these layers to help visualize how
the parts would come together:
I'm using Accuride slides for the drawers; this is not
shown in the drawings. Also my daughter requested some "hidden" drawers so
I worked two into the design (top middle and kickplate). For the top
middle, I plan on recessing the face so that it extends 1/2 the distance of the
other drawers when closed, putting a rosetta carving on it's face and using a
touch latch with some kind of lock mechanism from underneath to release it.
The kick plate drawer will be flush as well with a touch latch. The
11" drawer on the bottom is for shoe storage and hence has shoe racks depicted.
Designing in 3D was very useful, especially when I showed the
design to the family. I could "pull out" the drawers, rotate the
cabinet, etc. I'm sure that I could have made the initial drawings in pen
and paper much quicker but it sure was nice to play around with different design
ideas and see the updated drawings immediately. I toyed with the idea of
getting a student version of AutoCAD 2005 (daughter is taking drafting course
with it in high school) for $380 at
cadcampus; ultimately I decided with DesignCAD mostly on cost and it
being "good enough" for my needs.
I purchased
version 15 from Purplus Software for $62.40 with shipping included.
It's been out since last summer and seems to be pretty stable. You can get
version 14 for ~$20 but I
think support will be better for the current version. Purplus was very
prompt with their shipment. I ordered it on Tuesday Feb 1st, it was
shipped on 2/2 and I received it via the USPS on 2/9. Sadly the book that
came with my software purchase was a duplicate of the online help. A
tutorial disk was included but it was very basic; in 2 weeks I had already
gotten beyond that point. Version 14 reportedly includes more tutorial
material. Version 15 has two additional tutorials available directly from
IMSI for $45 each.
I used the material list function as well but found that to be
cumbersome. I highly recommend that users of this product save their
work often and keep plenty of back copies as well just in case. The
undo function works very well but I backed up with a file rename on every major
update to be safe. The support
forum for this product is phenomenal. I found the support staff
at IMSI (publisher of DesignCAD) to be pretty responsive as well. For some
reason, the drawings I made with the demo didn't open properly with the licensed
version when it arrived. I called the support desk, they directed me to
email the file in question. By end of day, a fixed file was emailed
back to me.
I never used a CAD program before so I can't comment on how
this program stacks up against others. This first design project took some
time but I found that my next design project, a router table, is going much
quicker. I can't see going back to pen and paper for anything more than
sketch ups. DesignCAD isn't flawless but it seems to be pretty solid.
There seems to be some weirdness in cutting solids (useful when depicting
mortises or dados) where extra "hidden" lines may appear but the
DesignCAD support forum has been a
very good resource for workarounds and techniques. If I designed furniture
for a living, I might not want to deal with that kind of distraction and hence
be willing to plunk down serious cash for something like AutoCAD. For me,
the occasional furniture designer, this product seems plenty powerful. For
60 bucks, I figure I can't go wrong with this one.
Steve
Steve, thanks for posting on your experience with DesignCad. I'm guilty of setting aside the DC for other woodworking activities. Attention span of a gnat, as they say, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Paul, have you check their sites for any upgrades/patches to your program? Perhaps they've fixed the bug? You might want to drop them a line.
On another note, I had suggested earlier in this thread that when we get to posting user tips or questions that we provide a bold title for our posts that can be easily spotted as someone's scanning. I'll reiterate that here for the future. Let us know if you get the problem fixed.
Thanks for posting!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl, Dennis -
I don't know what solids modeling engine is used. I have applied the patch that was available from IMSI, but it did not ifx the problem (nor was it mentioned in the release notes).
Next post will be a bug report of sorts...
Paul
Work Around to bug when using Multiple Solid Subtract/Or/Segregate Commands
When performing multiple solid commands in DesignCAD v14, I have found a bug where additional vertices are being added to the solid you are subtracting from. It hasn't been a real showstopper, but it is annoying to have the extra edges in one's drawings.
The bug is visible in the attached images. I am making multiple cuts to form three drawers in a coffee table skirt. Cuts are made using larger rectangular solids penetrating the skirt solid. The images show what happens after the 2nd and 3rd cuts. In this example I am using the solid segregate command, since it is nice and leaves me my fitted drawer fronts. The same bug appears if I use the solid subtract or the solid exclusive or commands.
The workaround I found is to join the three boxes being used to subtract from the skirt with another solid that spans all three boxes (I just copied the skirt to make it easy). After three solid add commands, I had one mega solid to perform the solid segregate on the skirt. The last image shows the (desired) result.
All that remains is to set the material type (altered by the segregate command) and place the drawer fronts in a new layer.
Paul -Does it matter the order in which you subtract the drawer cutouts? What happens if you subtract all three in one operation?...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
The order doesn't matter (I tried). You can't subtract all three in one operation if they are separate blocks, since the solid subtract command takes only two arguments: the solid to be subtracted, and the solid it will be subtracted from (segregate and exclusive or work the same way).
But, as I showed, if you merge the three drawers into a single, super-drawer and perform the operation in one swell foop, it works fine.
The problem might be related to DCAD having a hard time recalculating where faces are after subtracting from solids. I've noticed that sometimes, when subtracting from the end of a board, the end face (what would be the end grain) is missing--you have a hollow solid. Using the slice (by plane) command seems to avoid this, but I haven't checked it extensively.
Because of this behavior, I find myself using slice or subtract operations less when doing things like "trimming" rabbets or tenons. Add operations seem less prone to problems in determining faces, so I find myself adding tenons on, instead of doing the CAD equivalent of routing them out.
Anyone else encountering this problem, or am I a little further in using DCAD?
Paul -That was going to be my next suggestion - to (what we call in AutoCAD) 'join' the three boxes then subtract the resulting element. Within all the preference settings of the program is there anything that would suggest a variable that would increase the level of accuracy for the solids operations? Sometimes, due to the demands that the calculations put on system resources the default settings for them are rather course to improve program response. If the workaround that you discovered does work then this may not be a problem but .... how did you create the apron that's being cut out? Does DCad support extrusion into a solid from something like a polyline?...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
how did you create the apron that's being cut out? Does DCad support extrusion into a solid from something like a polyline?
The skirt (or rail, apron, whatever) is a simple rectangular solid to start. I use the box command (keyboard shortcut: ]) to make a rectangular solid of the desired dimensions. It's easy to do using the point (:) command to set the origin at (0,0,0) and then the next point at (l,w,h).
I haven't found support for converting an extruded polyline into a solid--at least, nothing simple. To make a complex solid, I find it more straightforward to start with a rectagular solid and slice it down from there. An example is the table leg (attached).
The steps needed to create this shape were:
1) create a solid block 2x7x20
2) create a bezier curve for the edge, ensuring that the start/stop points are slightly outside the box, while the rest of the curve is within the box.
3) extrude the curve so that it is a curved polyline over 2" wide (so that it completely penetrates the box). This keeps a copy of the bezier curve, needed later.
4) slice the box with the extruded curve.
5) create a half-ellipse that represents the softened edge of the curve.
6) extrude the ellipse along the bezier curve, using the "perpindicular" option. [this step associated with much cursing. When doing the extrusion, DCAD kept flipping the half ellipse around, giving me a shape that would be like taking a core box bit to the edge, instead of rounding the edge. I finally defeated the #$#%! program by reversing the ellipse to the "wrong" orientation before extruding it. That worked.]
7) slice the solid using the extruded ellipse shape.
8) slice the solid using two planes so that the table leg is wedge shaped, 4/4 at the straight edge, and 6/4 6 inches out toward the curved leg.
9) save the leg as a separate file. Copy it into drawings as needed.
If I try to create the leg by drawing the curve and extruding it, I don't get a solid. There are commands to define planes, but it seemed like a painful route at the time.
hope this helps!
Paul (ex beautiful King county resident)
Paul -As I mentioned at the beginning, I don't have nor have used Design CAD. But from the looks of what you can produce, it's one helluva program for the money.If DC has the ability to create a rectilinear solid directly without extruding another shape then my suspicions are unfounded. It should in that instance create a mathematically accurate model of what you specify. I was thinking perhaps if you had to construct the apron from a series of line segments then extrude it, it may have been possible that the original geometry was not lying all in the same plane. Don't laugh .... it's been done (don't ask by whom!)I don't have anything further to offer in the way of suggestions to solve your bug problem. Paul. Sorry. From the looks of things you're pretty conversive with your program as it is! Congrats!!...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I have used Autocad LT, for many years, but only for the build and part details. No fancy shapes. These are done later with templates.
For art design, such as carving, curves, inlay etc., my best resource is a sheet of brown paper, cut from a roll and taped to a wall with squares drawn at 1/2" or 1" intervals. My pencil beats vector graphics programs hands down.
For fun, you can download the latest Adobe Illustrator for a free 30day trial, from their web-site. If you wish to see things in 3D and have a lot of time on your hands, this is supposedly the best design vector graphics software available.
"one swell foop" - I like that!
Mitch
Forestgirl,
I also got the $15 design cad v 14 before the holidays and have been unable to focus on it. If you remember in the earlier thread I suggested a user group to select a design for something and to post ALL the steps used to actually do the drawing.
I'm a 2D cad user for almost 20 years and am used to drawing in scale. My program, first Drafix Cad, then Quick Cad and now Auto Sketch allows me to draw in a particular scale on a chosen sheet size. It's what I'm used to.
Putting that aside, drawing in three dimensions I believe is different although I would really like to learn.
My suggestion: If there is someone out there who knows how to use Design Cad would you please post the steps to draw something such as a cube, a rectangular table with four square legs etc. Something simple with the steps which we novices can follow and try to do ourselves.
ASK
ASK -- I think it might be a good idea for someone to take a simple design, for example, say, a hall table with mortise & tenon joinery, and post the steps to draw it. However, I would discourage the idea of an experienced person being asked to post step-by-step directions to draw, say, a cube. This level of DesignCad use should (IMHO) be self-taught by using the tutorials provided with the software under Help--->Tutorial. Going down to that level in the discussion group will really clutter it up.
My plan for this learning process is to go through the tutorial step-by-step. I have printed off all the pages so that I can teach myself in this way. It's a grinding process no doubt, reminds me of re-learning algebra, but it should work. If something can't be figured out that way, then a question here would certainly be appropriate.
I will move the DesignCad up on my priority list, and start posting this week. My first real endeavor will be to draw the plan for a gift-wrapping center I made before the holidays. I've had several inquiries of interest in it from customers. It will involve basic parts similar to a small bookcase, but also cylinders and holes, so it should be a good learning process.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
forestgirl,
My thought about having someone experienced do it was that it would be an efficient step by step process without the problems with many many incorrect intermediate steps resulting in "I did it but I can't remember how I got there".
I have always felt I could teach a anyone how to draw using Autosketch in about an hour. Of course it's only a 2D program.
On the other hand, if you accomplish what you suggest for yourself and are willing to share it that would be terrific.
ASK
This may be old news to you but I've found what seems to be a decent site offering lots of additional information on DesignCad -- including some step by step tutorials. I'm doing the demo of v15 right now so I don't have any tutorials to use.Here's the link:http://designcadunleashed.com/Also in the downloads section on that site, there is a DesignCad add-on available called K2WoodShop that seems interesting. I'm plodding along but am having difficulty in creating mortises and hidden dados in my drawings at the moment. v15 seems to be good but at times flaky with how it handles solids, especially when adding or subtracting one from another (as I'm attempting to do with my mortise drawings). After the subtraction operations, extra lines are left behind on the drawing near the operation that have to be manually hidden. Strange..Steve
Nope, didn't know about that one, Steve. Thanks for posting it!
I didn't get my first tutorial done last week like I said I would -- got distracted by some woodworking, LOL. Have two projects I just need to get process for, then things will be easier.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I have obtained the ecabinet software, can't complain about the price eh?But when I went to spec a simple cabinet it won't allow me to spec a solid back with a dado's upper rail. Keeps wanting to dado the back, making for a 5/8" wider back.Now my system is simple. 5/8 MCP for carcase all round. 1/8" dados ergo, a 33" sink unit requires a 32" deck, a 32" back 29.5" high. But with ecab, it wants a 30" back with a dado on the top of it. Only a modicum larger to be sure, but when you gotta move larger pieces instead of smaller pieces, well, it just gets more difficult. Better to cut the dados out of smaller scrap than larger pieces doncha agree. And methinks this annoyance means that the cut list generated ain't worth squat as it means that a least two dimensions are not right, and ya gotta remember which ones they are and how they apply to the piece. Ergo, if I gotta remember what to remember, I may as well do it all in my head anyway. Then I know who to blame for miscuts. Ergo- ecabinets ain't an advantage to me yet. I may change my mind when I have the time to spend on the learning curve. Last time I looked at cabinet software, the main advantage touted was to be able to precut gables. For that, they wanted what was it 5k$.
If a person cannot precut gables in their sleep, then they should pay that, otherwise it was pointless. In the meantime, I have my eco-friendly design tools, a piece of paper and a pencil . I can conceptualize stuff to my clients immediately on site, sans technology, on only one piece of paper, and change it immediately as well, with an eraser. Totally wireless and cordless, and the processing speed is generally pretty fast. Eric
in Cowtown
Jamie,
You are evil. Just ordered my v.14 from Purplus (http://www.Purplus.com) for $16.95 + 3.80 shipping = $20.75 total. And, of course, geek that I am, I'll have to read the damn thing and stay up til all hours of the night learning it - like I get a lot of sleep now.
But count me in. Should be a wild ride.
Mitch
to bad this forum software doesn't allow for "sticky" threads that stay up top of each discussion grouping.
Working in millimeters; print function
OK, I just finished a 2D design but I'm having some problems here. Need some experienced help! I drew the design with millimeters in mind. So when I set the drawing units I made 100=100. I drew my object, which is 296 mm long and 106 mm wide. Now, I need to print it out in exact size. But the program doesn't "know" I'm using millimeters. According to the tutorial it doesn't "care" what units I'm using as long as I keep everything consistent. How do I get it to print the drawing out exactly the size I want it to be?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
OK (again), I actually figured it out. I had to set the Scale (in the print options box, shows up when you select print from the File menu). I divided 1 by 25.4 (1 inch = 25.4 mm) and the answer (.03937) is the Scale, or the ratio of inches to millimeters. Yikes.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I'm back asking about changing the color of lines. They are red, I would like them to be black. Can I change them? How?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie -Can you open a dialog in DCadd related to plotting (printing) parameters? If you find something associated with that subject, or do the on line help thing and read up on "pen mapping" or plotting in monochrome. One of the available colors should appear black when printed. In AutoCAD it's color #7.I can only advise you on the basis of my knowledge of AutoCAD. Pen #7 of the 256 pen colors available (in AutoCAD) will plot black. Color #7 is actually white (on a black editor screen background) but plots black. (This was not my idea!) If you want all colors to plot black, find out how to assign a "screen color" to whichever pen color plots as black.Are all the objects drawn on the same layer? The prefered CAD approach to object property management is to have all objects posses color by layer. Thus change the color of the layer the objects are on and they should respond. Select a color for their layer(s) that plots black.Alternately, DCadd should provide a means of changing an object's properties. Color is usually an object property. Select all the obects on the screen, then change their color property to whatever color plots black. The advantage of drawing various parts of the drawing with different colors is that you can also assign different pen weights (line thickness) to the so-called virtual pens used to plot them. So if you have dimension lines, normally drawn with lighter lines, in one color and the object lines in another, they can both be plotted to a specific pen color but in different pen weight.Are we having fun yet!
...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Yes! We're having all sorts of fun! I should have thought of the printing properties approach. Thanks for pointing out the SOP of using layers & colors. As I learn more about CAD, it'll be ever more helpful if I'm doing something "normally."
PS: Don't know how I missed your email with the metal-spinning pic in it! All is well though, I found it and they look great! What fun. Post in the Gallery or Cafe??? I really think you should! Others will be interested.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I've been dabbling with DC3DMAX15 on and off when time allows. The only way I've found to change colors, line types or widths is to use layers. This is a very common method for CAD packages. I've been using CAD from the early years and have used layers religiously in all my designs. Once you set up the layers to the properties you desire you can select an entity or entities then move them to a specific layer taking on that layer's properties.You can accomplish this as follows:o Select the entities you wish to change/move
o Use the "Current layer" pull down to select the layer you want to move to
o Click on the "Apply Layer to Selection" button (A with the red +)The selected entities will now be visible on the Current layer and have all those layer properies applied. HTH
-Cyberdust
Thanks for the details on assigning things to layers. I've worked with layers some in PaintShop Pro, so fortunately they aren't foreign to me. I'll tell you, though, learning CAD the first time is mind-numbing! Love the precision though.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Black lines & Cross Sections + Example DCAD File attached
FG,
if you want black when printing, there is an option to print in B/W. If it is the color, then use the color by layer option.
All -
Layers are the most wonderful thing -- you can have all sorts of stuff in different layers, and just turn them off to keep things simple. I played with the Cross Section command yesterday, and it took a while to figure out what it was doing. I thought it would put the new cross sections in the "current layer"--but it kept them in the layer with the solid that was sectioned. This made it impossible to hide other layers to see the cross section. Solution: the cross sections, when viewed from the (2D) plane tangent to them, appear as a line. Select that line (and in doing so, selecting all cross sections), then use the info box (ctrl-i) and put them all into a new layer. Then hide all but that layer, and voila, you can see your cross sections.
Attached is my current project, as designed using DCAD 14Max. Go to the Layer dialog box (shortcut L) to show the cross sections. If anyone has questions about how to make the coves, lambs tongues, etc., just ask away!
The display table (the current project) is being made primarily from cherry (some stuff I bought in 1987, no kidding) with scrap yellowheart from my latest project for the corner columns and trim. The top inset is a 12" square slate that looks like black/silver birds eye maple. Really cool, I think it's going to go great with the dark cherry.
Good luck to all,
Paul
Wow, Paul! Consider my mind boggled -- it'll be a lonnnnnnng time before I can turn out a drawing like that, LOL. Thanks for the specifics on the layers -- I can play around with your drawing and get used to the idea. Just having that file to play with will be educational! (Remember to post the finished table in the gallery)
A couple of very basic questions: When you look at your drawing, are many of the lines pretty squiggly? Do I have it zoomed-out enough? Then, the most basic: is there some way to zoom in and zoom out (+ and -) without having to click over and over again? In my photo-editing programs, my mouse wheel will do this, but that doesn't work in DC. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
A couple of very basic questions: When you look at your drawing, are many of the lines pretty squiggly?
Since giving up drinking to lose weight, the lines no longer look squiggly (grin). Seriously, I do notice a lot of aliasing when I shade the 3D window, and anti-aliasing does nada on screen (but printouts look OK).
Do I have it zoomed-out enough? Then, the most basic: is there some way to zoom in and zoom out (+ and -) without having to click over and over again? In my photo-editing programs, my mouse wheel will do this, but that doesn't work in DC
To zoom out, I use ctrl-w a lot. It returns the view to "fill the screen with everything." To zoom in on a section, I usually use the shortcut to zoom (z) and select the region to zoom by dragging over the area (the zoom cursor will have a little square in the magnifying glass). Just be sure to have the window active when using this. You can also use the + and - keys to change the zoom tool to zoom in or out, respectively, but most often I use the ctrl-w and z-drag route.
OK, it took awhile to figure how to see just one layer but I got it. What did you mean by "just turn them off to keep things simple." Is that the Hide All command?
Mostly I keep dimension layers turned off, unless I'm printing them for shop reference. Ditto for cross sections, now that I know how to use them. In the example I have, I also tend to keep complex shapes turned off (like the legs, or the top) to keep the number of lines/vertices down. For example, while putting in the drawer, I would only have the apron layer turned on. It keeps the view uncluttered and provides all the reference needed to dimension the drawer. Or, if working on the legs, I wouldn't have the drawer guides, dust panel, etc. on, since they aren't needed.
Finally, a word of encouragement. It doesn't take that much to get to the proficiency level shown in the diagram. The most critical commands needed to generate the design were box (]) to make the "dimensioned lumber" and solid segregate to do things like taper the legs. It just helps to think like a router bit, too. One neat "cheat" for making the initial leg taper was to:
1) make the leg as a rectangular solid using the box command (]). The leg tapered section was 19" long and 1.5" at the widest point, so the commands (all keyboard) were ] then using dimensions (0,0,0) for starting point (type : to get the point command) and (1.5, 19, 1.5) for the ending point.
2) Use the * (move point) command to move the bottom of the leg corners from (0,0), (0,1.5), (1.5,0) and (1.5, 1.5) to (0.5,0.5), (0.5, 1.0) etc., again using the : shortcut to input the desired points. Fast and perfect accuracy!
3) the additional taper (to make the octagonal shape) was done using the solid slice command to specify the plane of slicing.
Practice on a project and you'll become proficient quickly.
OK, it took awhile to figure how to see just one layer but I got it. What did you mean by "just turn them off to keep things simple." Is that the Hide All command?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
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