Replies

1. 
   mentormack | Sep 28, 2004 03:06am | #1

   Try going to Lee Valley and get thier tapered plug cutters.  Although IPE is hard, these cutters do the job very well.  I used them with my ipe deck last summer.  I used a Freud fostner bit, glued them in place, and cut them off with a flush cutting saw (also from Lee Valley).  One year later, no problems.

   Good Luck.

   Jim

1. 
   e2canoe | Sep 28, 2004 03:42am | #2

   Thanks Jim.  The Lee Valley cutters are HSS, not carbide.  Will that work on Ipe?  I have about 600 plugs to cut!

2. 
   BOBABEUI | Sep 28, 2004 04:19pm | #3

   Hello,

   I  used Ipe plugs to cover the face screws that I used for treads on my outdoor steps, used stainless steel screws and drilled and counter sunk each screw hole. I only needed to make 64 plugs, I used the Vertias plug cutter to cut tapered plugs for only 64 to 80 plugs. It was a very slow laborious precess that kicked the butt of the plug cutter and made some of the nastiest smoke during the cutting of the plugs. I would buy the pre-make plugs in the quality that you are taking about needing, you might want to use some polyurethane glue to glue the plugs in place, might minimize the glue line that you are concerned with. Or you may want to consider using the plastic biscuits that are plate joined in the side of the Ipe decking and SS screwed into the decks joists, as seen in Fine Home Building.

   Good luck

3. 
   tcalisto | Sep 28, 2004 10:40pm | #4

   e2canoe,

   I would recommend using one of the hidden deck fasteners in lieu of face screwing and plugging the 1000 plus screw holes. It may cost a little more up front but you will surely save on labor and the deck will be much cleaner looking.  I built a 12 x 32 Ipe deck at my last house and I used the Deckmaster system. While this was better than face screwing everything I would probably look into the Eb-Ty system if/when I do it again. Even with the hidden fasteners you will probably still need to face screw in some areas (the railing or steps). I used standard high speed steel drill bits and plug cutter for everything and did not have any problems. Additionally make any pilot hole for screws a little bigger than you usually would for "standard hardwood" as Ipe is extremely hard.

   Good Luck,

   Tom

1. 
   e2canoe | Sep 30, 2004 02:24am | #5

   Thanks for your ideas.

   Can't do clips as I'm using 3/4" planks.  Been told by clip vendor that they aren't recommended for such think planks.

   TCALISTO, glad to hear that you had success with a HSS plug cutter.  I'll try it but I don't think I'll have the patience that you did to cut them all.

   So, I got a hold of calipers and determined that my plugs are btween .352" to .360" in diameter.  If I drill 3/8" (.0375") holes, that leaves .007" to .012" joint around the plug which I'm thinking I can hide pretty good with epoxy mixed with a bit of Ipe dust.

   Now all I need is a carbide combo countersink + drill bit with a 3/8" body and 3/16" bit.  Can't find one in my town (Ottawa, Canada).  Anyone know a good online source?

   Edited 9/29/2004 7:27 pm ET by e2canoe

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 30, 2004 08:15pm | #6

   The first place I would check is W.L. Fuller Inc. http://www.wlfuller.com

   Might be easiest to call, as they have so much (all drilling-related) that the web-site's hard compared to a paper catalog.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   lwj2 | Oct 01, 2004 12:37am | #9

   Ok, I'm intrigued.

   Out of idle curiosity, why use 3/4 instead of 5/4 thickness?

   Are you using rough lumber or s2 or s4?

   Leon Jester

   Roanoke VA

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 01, 2004 07:05pm | #10

   Leon, the price difference is significant.  Ipe is strong enough to be quite functional in 3/4" thickness, and the lineal foot difference is $.40-$.55 which can really add up, LOL.  A few more joists might be needed using 3/4", but those are much cheaper than the decking boards.

   According to one chart I saw yesterday, Ipe has 3x the strength and stiffness that cedar has, 10x the hardness.  A quote that got my attention:  "With a bending strength of just over 25,000 pounds, an ipe 1x4 deck board can span joists 24 inches apart and still carry a live load of 100 pounds per square foot."

   I'm assuming the lumber is S4 since it's ready to be installed and most homeowners don't have a planer with carbide knives sitting in their garage.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   lwj2 | Oct 01, 2004 07:23pm | #11

   I'd figured there was a reason, FG. Didn't realize how strong it was.

   Redwood, SYP (treated or untreated) are probably the most popular here in VA, although cypress is making inroads.

   At 40¢ - 55¢ a linear foot that does add up.

   Thanks.Leon Jester

   Roanoke VA

3. 
   forestgirl | Oct 01, 2004 07:29pm | #12

   I think I'm about to find out how strong it is :0)   Talked to hubby last night, and he's intrigued with the web sites I sent him to re: ipe.  Wants me to work up an estimate for what the materials will cost to replace our nearly-collapsed deck with it.

   I envy you the local resources for SYP and cypress!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

4. 
   e2canoe | Oct 02, 2004 12:59am | #13

   Cost!

   Ipe is so rigid that a 3/4" (1" nominal) can span 16" joists.

   I got S4.  LIke someone else said, I don't happen to have a carbide bladed jointer lying around!

   Edited 10/1/2004 6:01 pm ET by e2canoe

2. 
   forestgirl | Sep 30, 2004 08:21pm | #7

   Just found a site where you can get tapered Ipe plugs, $15.00/100ct.  We're exploring redoing our deck in Ipe, so was interested in the source myself.  Also, if you go to the bottom of the page, you'll see they have an "Ipe Clip System" that's an edge-mount system specially designed for 3/4" material.

   http://advantagelumber.com/decking2.htm

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 9/30/2004 1:23 pm ET by forestgirl

1. 
   e2canoe | Oct 02, 2004 01:02am | #14

   Thank you!  I think I'll return my straight plugs and try the tapered ones.  Kinda nervous about glue joint around straight plugs.

1. 
   Timagain | Oct 02, 2004 03:28pm | #15

   I'm using a veritas plug cutter for mine - have cut 1,000 so far - only about another 300 to go and its fine - although I am losing my mind!!!

   Re spans etc as discussed above whilst they are correct, I have found that using a 16" span and only screwing down on alternate joists was the way to go.  The reason being that becuse the boards are so stiff and strong that if they have any bow or curve to them you have the option to pull them into line.  If they are straight and flat (and they all are until you try to get an even gap!) then no harm done.

   I know its after the event (on my deck included) but what happens if you need to lift a board in the future once you've plugged it?  Its been bugging me all through the job but it obviously also looks great.

   Cheers

   Tim

2. 
   forestgirl | Oct 02, 2004 07:29pm | #16

   "...what happens if you need to lift a board in the future?"  Drill, I suspect.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   Fingrs | Oct 03, 2004 06:06pm | #17

   Re: removing plugs.  This is a standard procedure on boats where teak handrails are screwed into place and the countersunk holes plugged with teak.  You simply drill out the plug using a slightly smaller bit than the plug's diameter.  Then you pick away remaining wood and glue until the screw is revealed.  It's really not difficult (I've done it many times) and if you're patient, you can remove the plug cleanly, although if you're replacing the board a clean removal is not necessary.  

4. 
   Timagain | Oct 03, 2004 09:54pm | #18

   Thanks - i thought that might be the case-  better make sure I make some spare plugs!

   T

3. 
   forestgirl | Sep 30, 2004 08:35pm | #8

   Actually, here's a direct link to the company that makes the Ipe Clip system:

   http://www.ipeclip.com/prod.htmforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)