I am looking at purchasing a used Performax 16-32 drum sander in excellent condition. It is an older model with only a 1hp motor. Does anyone out there have comments pro or con? $500 w/out feed tables, stand and rollers. Thanks, Fishwood
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Replies
I have one and it is a fair price for a good machine. Just remember, these are not finishing machines - rather, they are very precise thicknessing machines. Oh, and you must have dust collection to use them.
How old? You can get a Factory Reconditioned Delta 18" X5 for $649
http://www.cpowoodworking.com/search/20070814150944/index.php/search?terms=31-255
Greg
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Exo 35:30-35
Why would anyone buy ANTTHING from Delta?
The Performax is a good machine, never had a problem with mine.
Delta tools, of all types, on the other hand... strictly Chinese junk.
I didn't realize Performax was not made in China too. I am not implying that it is not a good machine only that for another $150 you get a new X5 machine with a 5 year warranty. In that light, $500 for an "older" used machine (that I'm guessing wasn't much more when it was new) seems like it might be a bit high.) Just trying to put it in a different perspective for the OP.I thought the X5 line was assembled in the US — ie tolerances of assembly controlled within spec.. Does anyone know if that is true? As far as I know, Delta still stands behind their products. FWW continues to evaluate and rate well the Delta line. Others may sometimes be better, but I can't see justification for a comment that everything they produce is cheap Chinese junk.Greg
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I recently talked to one of the big wigs at Steel City, and he said there is not a tool out there not made in China or Taiwan, with the exception of the Powermatic PM66 table saw, which is still assembled in Tennessee. However, the Powermatic rep informed me the PM66 is soon to be phased out. FYI
General still makes woodworking machines in Canada. They also sell Chinese-made under General-International, and a cheaper line of G-I machines exclusively at the Canadian big-box store Rona. Their website is admirably clear about which machines are made in Canada. They regularly publish sales flyers giving a standard discounted price . They have also started a line for disabled people, including those in wheelchairs, under the name Access General. At the moment all but one of the Access machines are high-end Canadian-made, but they plan to expand the line to include more affordable Asian-made tools.
Jim
Apparently you haven't dealt with Black & Decker, errr..., Delta in some time.
Delta woodworking tools are,at best, kits now. The fit and finish of all of their tools is horrible. If you buy from Delta be prepared to spend a lot of time with files, emery paper, mallets, pry bars etc. getting your "tool "together. Of course, you will have a lot of time to do this because it will arrive at your shop with broken or missing parts.
After you have built your kit it will be flimsey and it won't be long before you get you get to experience Black & Decker, errr, Delta "customer service". If you can find a phone number that will allow you to talk with a live person you will be instructed to TAKE the machine to your local Black & Decker service center, (That's right, Black & Decker).
I could go on, but I'm tired of typing and tired of this subject. By all means, if you like Delta and are satisfied with it buy their products.
From my experience, I wouldn't buy any Delta product if it came with a free gold brick.
To Northhouguy; Delta is not my first chose, and I'm not sure what it is that your referring to but what I think I was writing about was a Steel City mini lathe and a Jet 16-32 Performax plus. The Steel City was formed from some disgruntled Delta engineers that decided to put a better product than Delta could produce and show em what for. As for the Jet 16-32 drum sander, I just wanted a little feed back on how it performs. Thanks, Fishwood of Knotty Grove Woodsmith.
Sorry you had a bad experience with Delta. I hate that living in the strongest nation on the face of the earth, no one can stay in business here who makes just about anything superior. We have gone from a producer nation to a consumer nation. But I guess that is a topic for the cafe.I have no Delta power tools. Just some DeWalt and PorterCable. I have had nothing but positive experiences with the Delta customer service and the repair center. I tried at an 8" X5 jointer and it sure felt like a tank.I commented on the Delta drum sander b/c I am considering their new design 31-260X. As an engineer, all the cantilevered designs cause potential red flags to raise. The natural flexing tendency of the head indicates to me that it will be a challenge to keep the thickness uniform across the width of the board. In fact, if you are going to sand half and flip it around, the instructions are to camber the head 1-3 degrees to avoid a lap mark.The model I referred to (31-255X) has been superceded with the 31-260X. One of the improvements is a welded C-frame head eliminates movement of the drum for controlled parallelism of the work piece. And it weighs in at 195 lbs.I can offer to OP this about the Performax:1. I have not heard many objections from users in several forums.
2. David Marks has a Performax and he is not paid by the company to use it. I am assuming he purchased it himself.
3. I was leaning toward the 16/32 until I discovered the Delta 18/36.
4. $500 seems a little high for an older unit.FYI: Laguna Tools has a model in their Platinum series that has an end support on the cantilevered end. I am assuming it can be removed for sanding up to 32" stock. New list price is $595. Depending on where the OP is, shipping may be prohibitive. Here is a post on sawmill Creek forum about this topic:http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?referrerid=5960&t=84862Northhouguy, I am sorry to hear when anyone has a bad experience with a purchase. I gather you bought a new piece of machinery that was damaged and had pieces missing. Apparently you also had a hard time getting Delta to correct the problem. It's understandable after a while you would not buy anything from them again. I have a few companies that make a pretty good product who I won't buy from b/c of the attitude of their employees. I appreciate when people like yourself let others know about a potential problem with a piece of equipment or design or the company itself. When it is done fairly and factually it is appropriate. It also carries a lot of weight. From your post I gather that Delta never did correct your problem with a new piece of equipment. This is regretful. However I am certain that not many pieces of equipment come broken and with missing components.I am not a Delta man and may end up with another manufacturer's product at purchase point.Greg
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Greg,
I have several Delta products and I would have to say have had no problems with any of them. I have and use a 10" Delta contractors saw that has seen nearly daily use for nearly 30 years. It has performed to my expectations and then some.
My most recent addition Delta addition was the 50-760 1½HP Single Stage Dust Collector. It came with numerous extra parts, went together in about ½ an hour out of the box and it works flawlessly.
I would like to upgrade to a Unisaw but not a new one; price being the determining factor. I can't relate any experience with their service department as I have never had a need to.
Also, I will echo all of your observations with regard to the Performax 16/32 sander.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
w/out feed tables, stand and rollers for $500 sounds a bit pricy to me, then again these dont pop up all that often used, so .....
Unless you only plan on doing very short work or building the machine into a longer table, I think the Infeed/Outfeed tables are pretty much a necessity. I think those were around $90-$100 last I looked. At least in my all-mobile shop the stand and casters were musts too, but YMMV there. It's not something I use all the time, but comes in very handy when you need it.
If you build it he will come.
I have the same sander (road testing it) from a friend. It's an old one (~8 years old) and haven't used it all that much. What little I have used it I have found it most impressive. It's not a hogger machine, i.e. light passes are the order of the day with it.
I think there's a lot you can do with it in terms of flat surfaces. I'm not sure if I would use it to sand a 32" wide 3" thick maple benchtop but I can't say for certain!
My Delta 50-760 DC sucks up ALL the dust and connects directly to it. Hope I can get it for ~$500, less would be great.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I forget to mention - if this is like mine, the dust port is a small one (2.5" I think). I've had it far longer than I've had a cyclone (or any other) dust collector. I used it for years just hooked up to a large shop vac and it did a pretty decent job. It kept the airborne stuff under control. I did get a small bit on the floor from any that fell to the conveyor as it went around the roller for the return trip. If it's the bigger 4" port I dont think a shop vac stands a chance of moving enough air. Now that I've got a cyclone I'll probably change the port over to 4" to get all the dust.
If you build it he will come.
Hi,
Performax won best in the FW tool tests - I would sure give it a test drive first if I could. There is nothing so frustrating as a drum sander that stalls and chokes up easily, is really difficult to change the paper on - or worse, makes your piece uneven and out of square (bring calipers).
Good Luck, a good drum sander is a real nice thing to have.
Phoebe,
I have the good fortune to have an older Performax 16/32 that I am indeed test driving. I have only experienced but one stall so far. When I retrieved the piece and measured the differences I quickly realized that I was trying to take ~3/32 off. NOT!
So far I have experienced NONE of the negative aspects that you cited and dust collection works great. I have it connected to a Delta 50-760 1½ HP single stage and there is no dust left behind.
Also after measuring, pieces can be made to be dead flat and evenly surfaced(within .003"). All in all it's an excellent machine for its intended purpose. At least that has been my experience so far.
Regards,
P.S. Yes I will be purchasing it.Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I just discovered an article from FWW Nov/Dec 2000 evaluating drum sanders for the small shop.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011145046.pdf
The Delta model current at the time (31-250) got top honors. It has been replaced by the 31-255X which has just been replaced by the 31-260X. The basic design looks the same.
The Performax got very good ratings. I was reminded that Performax established the machine in the 1980's which began as an attachment for the radial arm saw. I remember seeing it and it may still be on the market. Performax machines have been solid performers. The 16-32 had a list price of about $900 new in 2000. You judge if $500 is a fair price for you.
From Roland Johnson's article, I glean that my concerns about the cantilevered head design are not an issue. He discovered it was possible to attain uniform thickness on boards up to 16" wide. I was leaning toward the Delta because of this. But the Delta compromise is with the floating table, adding infeed/outfeed tables is a challenge as they create a real pain in being required to move in unison with the table with each thickness adjustment.
I'm wondering if infeed/outfeed tables are needed with these units. Even the closed-end higher priced sanders do not have them.
Greg
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Performax I have one my Daughters got me.. The smallest one.. I LOVE IT!
Have posted before I would have never got a drum sander on my own. I have no idea why.
Better than butter on bread but not as good as sex...
Does anyone know how the Performax made machines compare with the Jet. Weren't they bought out by WMH tool group?Greg
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Greg,
When I found a manual for the 16/32 I have(8-9 year old machine) it had Jet on the front cover.....
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Greg,
I haven't seen any unfavorable reviews for the Jet. The Jet guys seem to have addressed the major complaint with the Performax - that if overloaded it will stall and dig a hole in your work. I understand that the Jet will automatically slow the conveyer speed if overloaded, thus avoiding a stall.Having said that, if you operate a Performax like it says in the owner's manual, you won't stall it anyway.davidb
Thanks.The models of thickness sanders I see have short infeed/outfeed tables. Even watching David Marks and Norm (with his $30,000 or whatever unit), they use the short conveyor bed supplied with the sander.Is infeed/outfeed table length not an issue like it is on a jointer or planer?Greg
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Greg,
Not sure I can answer your question but in the little time I've used mine I noticed that without outfeed support, when running long boards thru it, they tend to lift up the trailing end thus nipping the trailing end of the boards.
I back mine up to the TS and use it as an extended outfeed and apply just enough pressure on the outfeed of the sander to keep it flat. Works for me.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I am guessing just a roller stand or two would be appropriate. I only proposed this question on infeed/outfeed tables because I am considering 2 models — one with an adjustable head and fixed table, the other with a fixed head and adjustable table.Greg
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Greg,
the other with a fixed head and adjustable table.
I see but wouldn't the fixed head design require changing the height(s) of infeed/outfeed tables? I would think this could be a finicky problem/PITA.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Yes. That's the point that prompted my question. If these sanders require extension tables, every time I made an adjustment in thickness, I'd have to adjust both the In/Out tables and equal amount to the main platen.Greg•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
Edited 6/30/2008 3:33 pm by Cincinnati
Hey Fishwood
That older Performax is definitely American made. It is true that it has only a 1 hp motor, but it is a US built Leeson motor. $500 seems kind of steep though, since you can often get new for under $800. To give some perspective, I recently got an older one for $200 from Craigslist.
Good luck
davidb
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