I turned a top! 1st day of turning class
Hi, everyone, I’m writing from my hotel room in Port Townsend, WA. Just finished my first day of Basic Woodturning, taught by Bonnie Klein, originator of the Klein mini-lathe, and a long-time instructor of woodturning. The class is fantastic!!!!!
There are eight of us in the class, each with his/her own mini-lathe. I’m working on a Jet. We went through some basics on sharpening tools, how to tell HSS from carbon steel, what a proper tool rest looks like (not like the stock rest that comes with the mini’s). Then we made a turning blank round and practiced parting, then beads and coves, and flowing from one to the other. Click here for a slideshow from a May, 2009, class.
In the afternoon, we worked on skills needed to turn a top (a spinning top), and how to use a chatter-tool to decorate. What I found most challenging was smoothing off end-grain after doing a test with the chatter-tool, so I could practice again. But it got better with practice. Most people found the chatter-tool itself somewhat difficult, but the way she explained the proper use, it seemed fairly straightforward to me. Using it on the back-side of the top was a little nervewracking at first, though.
Seven concentrated hours of work, the brain’s pretty weary, but I’m going to try to read my Lathe Fundamentals book tonight, to solidify what I learned about coves and beads, and maybe get a leg up on what we do tomorrow. We’re all novices, some who’ve never turned their lathe on, some who’ve just played a bit, but not with confidence. No major accidents! just one broken off top (not me, tee hee).
Off to find a good restaurant. Ta ta!!
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Edited 9/26/2009 9:27 pm by forestgirl
Replies
FG,
Sounds like your having a ball. We expect full photos of the final effort.
As far as dining....maybe the ferry over to Victoria, BC at the Empress?
don't remember that much in PT :)
BB
"...maybe the ferry over to Victoria, BC at the Empress?" Ummmm, methinks not. Waaay too tired, and I think this late in September, the ferry only runs a couple times each day, over in the morning and back at night?
There are good restaurants in PT, but this weekend's the film festival, so downtown is absolutely packed. It's a miracle I was able to get a hotel room. I found fish and chips at a decent family restaurant. Definitely not fancy, but quick service and good food. Got me a slice of Dutch apple pie to go!
I'm just about to upload pics of me first little top now. Next post.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 9/27/2009 12:16 am by forestgirl
Bonnie is one of the best. I saw her presentation in Arizona early this year. Have a blast, and, as they say, "welcome to the vortex".
Dennis
Hah! The Vortex -- the Dark Side. It's got some nicknames, for sure! One of the guys at WWA said:
"Yep, sounds like Jamie's being sucked by that View Image
Methinks I'm going to like it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
BTW, I agree about Bonnie. Granted I have no-one to compare her to turning-wise, but I think Bonnie is an excellent instructor. I have some teaching experience, and have had several trainers in my Dressage riding life, she has all the right characteristics, and presents the material very, very well.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Ah! I think we get to learn about the skew tomorrow. Oh, fun. Actually, she allowed us to use it today, but only in one very particular fashion. Broadside on the tool-rest, point against the stock. Tomorrow, I think we will learn the "taming of the skew".forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hmmm..I see a Oneway lathe in your future.http://www.oneway.ca/lathes/index.htmAmong other features, it has electronic speed control. Very desirable.Keep us posted on the course.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
OK, this is what we made today, a little spinning top. Mine's a little fussy to get started, because the top of the handle is a bit to big -- I cut the stem too small too early, so we were limited. Live and learn.
Here's the face, showing the chatterwork. The 2nd pic shows the shape.
View Image
View Imageforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Nice ! Great colors and the texture is soo even. I am surprised how well it all turned out. I never turned anything on a wood lathe. Just wood on a metal lathe.Remember " contrary " in the movie Little Big Man ? It seems I have become a contrary ..the most dangerous
of all Cheyenne warriors...
...because the way they live
drives them half-crazy.Except for battle, a contrary
does everything backwards.
He says "goodbye" for "hello",
"yes" for "no",......walks through bushes
instead of on trails,...
...and washes with dirt
and dries with water.Well not that bad but almost.I look forward to seeing more from the classHave fun !rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Thanks, roc. You oughta see, not to mention feel, the surface of a cylinder after Bonnie's turned it -- smooth as glass, seriously! I'll be proud indeed if I can come anywhere close!
She mentioned in passing what we'd be doing tomorrow, but it escapes me now. I'm looking forward to whatever it is, LOL!
Have to peruse the Penn State Ind. catalog and pick out some new turning tools. Turns out (ooops, sorry for the pun), the tools that came with my lathe are carbon steel and not a good selection at that, so must pick out a new batch. Awwwww, doesn't bother me at bit!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie:
You'll get plenty of advice on tool purchases. Here's my two cents; Doug Thompson, a one-man operation here in the U.S., makes some of the best tools I have purchased, and at resonable prices. They come unhandled so you get to practice some of the skills Bonnie is teaching you by turning your own handles. Check it out!
http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/default.asp
FG,
Can you tell us more about the chatter tool?
Jimhttp://www.jimreedy.com
Jim -- running to breakfast, then class. Will reply tonight!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks for the class updates Jamie. That class sounds wonderful. No kidding about the vortex. Pretty soon you'll be looking for a better lathe, chucks, turning tools, etc. Stuff you really "need". Not that I would know personally, but my neighbor has a lathe...Have fun!David B
Hi, Jim. I'm home, will share what I can remember and understand about the chatter tool.
First, here are two pictures, the first of the whole tool (about 8" long), and the second a close up of the spring steel blade.
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View Image
Darn, I didn't get any pics of Bonnie using the tool, but here's the basic idea. Since the blade is made of spring steel, when you put pressure on it to bend it more, it wants to return to its original shape. It is not used as a cutting tool -- rather you press the "backside" of the tip against the work -- say the surface of the top -- starting at the center and radiating in a straight line outward, along the line of 7:30 on the clock dial (if you're working on the right side of the top as it sits in the lathe. The tool doesn't cut the wood, but rather compresses it in the chatter pattern. [I hope I got all this correct. Will read up on it!]
You increase pressure on the tool as you move outward toward the bigger diameter. You can start, stop and skip a tiny space, then start again, that gives you smooth places on the surface inbetween the chatter areas.
The thing makes a loud screaming noise as you move outward and increase the pressure. Unreal how loud it is!
I haven't looked yet online for a video or more thorough explanation, but I will soon.
Oh, the color -- applied by using color felt pens from the art store, Sharpies for the black. Really good pens ($3/ea) give a much better color than what we used for practice. Here's a picture of her projects book, from Woodzone.com with several tops. She gave us each a poster that's full of tops, really pretty.
View Imageforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Very interesting. And here all this time I thought forums were chatter tools. ;-)
Hah! Surprised that took so long, LOL.
I found a WikiPatents page on the chatter tool, invented by Dennis Stuart of Hillsboro, OR. It says in a summary elsewhere that in addition to varying pressure and the speed of the object, one can change the pattern by varying the unsupported length of the blade (i.e., move the blade in or out in relation to the handle). forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jim I found a page at Wood Central that has 3 different shop-made chatter tools. I'm definitely going to make my own! save $60.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Great! Thanks for the link.
Jimhttp://www.jimreedy.com
FG,I'm turning "a lot" of tops this weekend myself, as my granddaughters give them away to their friends for Christmas presents. Great fun, the chance to use up some scrap(everybody wants "reclaimed" stuff now), and quick gratification.I am going to agree 100% with another poster about Doug Thompson's tools. In my opinion, they are so heads above anything else you can buy that it's not even funny. Get the good stuff to start with and you will never have to wonder if it's you or the tool, you'll know it's you!!! Very inexpensive compared to some other brands, and Doug is such a nice guy, you just can't lose on the deal. One thing turning will teach you is how to sharpen. A whole 'nuther' thread, for sure. Good luck, have fun with your class.Rich
I envy you turning "a lot" of tops, Richard. I can't wait to unbury my lathe, make sure I have the right parts, and get to it. I don't have a chatter tool yet, though. Bonnie makes hers, I may follow suit. Ridiculous how much it costs to buy one from the catalog.
Will you post some pics of yours? I'd love to see them.
Bonnie teaches frugality when it comes to the tools. She makes many of her own (the chatter tool, making a parting tool into exactly the skew she wants, converting an allen wrench into the thingie you use to make loose rings. I'll post some pics separately, down below.
She doesn't use a tool rest for sharpening, generally. Doesn't worry about getting a beautiful non-faceted backside when sharpening, and figures if a Penn State gouge is 25% cheaper than one from another catalog, and made from the same steel, it's OK to buy it and use it. For sure, while I'm learning to sharpen, I'll follow that idea.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,Some people sharpen freehand, some use jigs. Each to his/her own, for sure. I've never seen anyone not use a tool rest. I do have an old AAW vid of BK (I think) sharpening, I'll have to go back and review it.As for the tools, I agree with her to some extent. I have made some tools myself, and the allen wrench that you speak of is a great way to turn a captured ring. The chatter tools in the catalogs ARE ridiculously expensive, especially those from a particular maker. As far as the other tools go, well, unfortunately, all HSS is NOT created equal. Hence, the price difference. I do agree that you may be better off with the economy versions until you can learn the ropes, altho' there are those that would say you would be limiting yourself with them........As for me, I would recommend a jig for sharpening. Too many other things to learn right now to worry about that. You can always go freehand later, after you learn how the tools cut. Repeatable, consistent results can be difficult without a jig, especially if you are new at it. If you get frustrated that sharpening isn't going well, the desire to turn may fade, and we can't have that!!! There are those that are quite vehement in their views on this, so I would expect that you will hear from both sides with regards to this issue. Just my $.02, you need to do whatever YOU are comfortable with. Sharp is sharp, no matter how you arrive at it. I use both methods and am quite content.One huge step forward would be to visit/join your local AAW turning club, if you have one. That way, you get to see other work up close and personal, and talk to the folks that actually made it. Great fun.Good luck, and keep 'em spinning...........Rich
Hi, Richard. I think there's an AAW chapter in Bremerton, which is about 25 miles from us, no ferry involved (an important advantage!). I'm going to look them up. Originally, I'd thought I could teach myself turning, with a little help from the turning club, but I just couldn't bring myself to fire the lathe up without live instruction (unlike the table saw, router, etc.).
I took my tools to get help with sharpening -- the set that came with the lathe -- but they turned out to be carbon steel, and a couple were burned from the previous owner, so we didn't bother with them. I asked to sharpen my spindle gouge, as that seemed the most difficult of the tools we were using, and I wanted to get at least one experience with sharpening.
She was most adamant about the quality of the grinder and the wheels (material, grit and balance), and talked a little about the aftermarket tool rest and jigs. It may turn out that I don't have the fine motor control to sharpen free-hand, I'll find out. I don't do other crafts and activities that require subtle fine motor skills, and they've decayed for sure.
The very expensive chatter tool of which you speak seems awfully clumsy to me -- bulky, big knob sticking out. The other commercial one is somewhat better, but I'd really like to make one patterned after Bonnie's. Would need to find some spring steel.
I'm sure BK doesn't object if we spent a bit more on our tools, but that class saved me from going out and buying a couple of highly-touted designs that I don't need, for sure. I'll keep everyone's advice in mind as this progresses over the months. Thanks for you thoughts! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Here's one place for spring steel stock, enough to make many chatter tools.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Wow, that looks perfect, Bruce, thanks!! One thing I'm really curious about is the purpose of the bend that Bonnie puts in her chatter blade. You'll notice that the blades in the commercial chatters and the shopmade ones I linked above are straight.
Also, she mentioned that putting a bend into spring-steel can be challenging, but not what the trick is to doing it.
PennState shipped my chisels today. Gives me this weekend to get my shop uncluttered, mount the switch back on the lathe and clean the bed!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I used to do gunsmithing so I have made a few springs. The spring steel will come soft, annnealed, so that it can be formed to shape. Gun springs are typically a "v" shape or arched, with attaching holes or tangs.
The way to form the bend is with heat. If the bend is gradual, and the stock thin, as in the chatter tool, you may be able to bend it cold. If not you heat the steel to a dull red heat to bend. Once bent you can harden and then draw the temper of the spring so that it is a spring.
For the chatter tool you may be able to bend it cold, and to use it without making it into a real spring.
Brownell's may still include instructions with the stock; I have not bought any in many years so I do not know what the current practice is. If you decide to do it yourself, heat the shaped spring to a cherry red and hold that heat for a few seconds. Then plunge the hot steel into a can of used motor oil. Best to do this outdoors. After it has cooled to room temperature polish the surface with fine emery cloth, or such, so that the surface is bright and smooth. The next step is to anneal the spring as it is currently too hard to bend without breaking. Annealing is done with a soft flame applied slowly so that you can watch the temperature change by noting the color of the polished spring. Heat it slowly until you have a straw color and allow the spring to cool to where it can be handled.
All of this is from my 20 year ago memory. I am sure you can Google current instructions if needed from the Internet. If you need further help please ask.
Have fun.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Thanks, Bruce, I'll Google around, and also ask a friend down in California who's pretty experienced with both wood and metal.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Reply #2. I think that the bend in Bonnie's tool allows the tool to approach the top at an easier to hold angle than if the shank was straight. If the shank was straight to approach the turning with the tool pointed down the handle would be held awkwardly high.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
You're probably right about the ergonomics of the tool. She also uses an allen screw to hold the blade in, which enables the tool to be used in much tighter spaces than those big knobs, which are on all the other chatters I've seen. Most pieces, it's no big deal, but I want to chatter on the interior of turned Christmas trees, and don't want a knob getting in the way.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Richard, just wanted to let you know, I found shop-made chatter tools on this page. Definitely going to do that instead of buying one.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,Sorry, I should have sent you that link.R
Holding out on me, eh Richard? Not a problem, as the young folk say. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Not holding out, I just assumed (you know where that leads......) that you already had a design from Bonnie. Sounds like you had a great class. Make sure that you wax your table saw top, as you may not see it again for a while. Some turners will tell you there's a reason they call it a TABLE saw...........Rich
Congrats on your first turning project. Looks good.
FG,
That is so great. I guess it's the chatter marks I'm seeing that make the design angles in the grain.
I look forward to hearing more from the event horizon of the vortex.
--jonnieboy
Hi, JB. Here, I took a pic of another student's top today, and made a close-up for you to really see the chatterwork. The colors aren't very crisp -- the markers were pretty worn, LOL, and they tend to soften the chatter as a result.
You can also chatter on metal -- we made tool handles today, using a brass compression nut as a ferrule. Some folks tried chatter on them. They are rather small, though, to pick up a pattern, and it seems kinda difficult to chatter on the side of something rather than the face.
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forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 9/28/2009 12:36 am by forestgirl
That is really something, FG. I like how the chatter 'valleys' go from shallow to deeper and sort of fan out.
Uh-oh. Oh no. Take it away! Take it away! I can feel the undertow even now!
-jonnieboy
"I can feel the undertow even now!" Accept it, JB, it's truly impossible to resist!! I can't tell you how jazzed I am!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
This'll bring you back to earth. My modest attempt at making a tool handle. It's cute, yes, but not what I had planned, LOL! I couldn't get the envisioned bead-shape right, and made the handle smaller and smaller..... Ended up with gentle curves. More to practice!!
The ferrule is a brass compression nut, turned with the same turning tools, and made satin with sandpaper (I think next time, no satin).
View Imageforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forest girl .. You can do anything! My three daughters are way smarter than I as ever.. But they had some help from the Mother!
Most people found the chatter-tool itself somewhat difficult, but the way she explained the proper use,..
My wife was a she and somewhat difficult to understand. My BIG TOP!
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