Hey fellas,
I’m finally going to pull the trigger on a dovetail jig. I’ve made many a hand cut (certainly not a master) and want to continue the art but I have a couple of kitchen projects coming up that justify the jig.
I’ve decided on Leigh for certain. Some may disagree but after the research I’ve done, it’s what I’m going with.
The conundrum lies in which one. I’ve narrowed it down to the D4R or the new Super 24. Price and convenience go to the Super 24 by $100 dollars and the ability to do pins and tails at the same time on HBs. Also the Super 24 has the E-bush for dialing in fit. The D4R has a little more versatility in bit sizes and you can create variable size pins.
I would like to know some of your thoughts on the pros and cons of either. Is it that much more inconvenient to do pins and tails separately on the D4R? How is the fit adjustment without the E-bush?
How important are variable sized pins? I guess if I want something the jig cannot do I could just do it by hand. However, as they say, “buy the best and only cry once.”
Replies
I have many times purchased something because it was cheaper. Most of the time, it was a BIG mistake. Unless you are sure you will not regret a cheaper, smaller, less capable whatever, by all means, buy it. But I belive in most cases you buy the best (not necessarily the cheapest) that you can afford even if you have to temporarily forego another purchase. I learned the hard way that quality costs and poor quality costs even more.
Nothing is worse than "I should have bought the ....". Go for the top of the line Leigh -- you won't regret it. I did and I have used its advanced features more than I would ever imagined.
I have a D4R (24 inch?) and it WORKS. When I bougtht it I also got the set of Whiteside bits made for it. If you have the money.. get the set of Whitside bits.I do not use it very often but when I do I like it ALOT.
As I am always looking for good tools, what is it that make them better than the rest for you. Always willing to learn.Thanks,Peter
Peter,
My criteria for choosing tools (of any and every kind):
A The right tool for my purposes which doesn't necessarily mean "the best available". Within that overall constraint:
1 form follows function, not some adman's idea of style or fashion.
2 best possible functionality achieved within the technological constraints
3 made to last under heavy use and even a bit of abuse, even though I am not a heavy user/abuser. I don't like obsolescence in a tool.
4 use of appropriate materials (which relates to #s 1-3)
5 multiple, wide or versatile uses rather than narrowly specialised or limited-by-design in functionality (assuming 1 - 4 are still met).
6 value for money
7 price (am I willing to afford it)
Lataxe, not enamoured of consumer not-durables
Edit: forgot to mention: safety and ergonomics (part of #1 really).
Edited 9/8/2007 3:52 pm ET by Lataxe
As I am always looking for good tools, what is it that make them better than the rest for you?..Geee, I'm not sure why I buy tools. Guess I just love em'.I bought my Leigh because it allowed adjustable dovetail spacing and it allowed me to use wide stock. Also, I bought it because I saw in at Rockler or Woodcraft (I forget which) and I was allowed to open the box and inspect it. They even would have let me cut a few pins and tails on some stock (If I bought the wood.. LOL).As for the Whiteside bits.. I saw the set for the Leigh when I was looking at the Dovetail jig and I thought.. If I'm going to spend 'that' kind of money on a jig, I may as well get the best bits I can.I LOVE Whiteside bits. However, I do NOT always buy them. I only buy specility bits from them. I think Whitesides are GREAT but I do have limits on why I spend for Quality. As I remember I also got a Whiteside Lock Miter Bit at the time (which was very expensive). I got a Whitside because I needed to do alot (Like around 100) mitered joints in plywood and I knew if that bit failed it whould have something 'I' did and not the bit.Quality to me is.. 'It works for what I do without to many problems'.For example:I use routers everyday. I have two PC and several Ryobi.
Several because they are setup for specific tasks. I think they are as good as my PC's. And 1/3 the price. I will say the Ryobi 'plunge' is a bit less accurate than my pc's but I can live with that because I know what to expect.Most of the router bits I use are the 'L' cheepos.. You know, 50 bits for $100.00 or less. I have several different sets and they are well used. I have never had one break (I always use 1/2 shanks) but in many years I did have a few of the ball bearings on the cheepo bits fail. (I throw it away and get the same profile from another set). Actually, for the price I am amazed how well they perform for the price.I have a RIDGID TS3650 table saw (Yes from the BIG BOX).. (At the time I had the money to afforded a saw 10 times it's price if I wanted to.. Not now though!.) BUT.. A friend of mine had one and I had used it on several occasions and it 'did what I needed it to do'. I also used his 6" RIDGID Jointer.I went out and purchased both and a 'off' brand 13 inch planner.I would think I have a 'sort of advantage'.. I have been a 'service man', 'Engineer' I'm Electrical.. And even a OLD Tank Mechanic! Yes I have fixed BIG machines when others failed.. I hated the travel but loved the work. I say where others have failed in not necessarily I was any better.. BUT I NEVER GAVE UP till' it ran as it should..I have never 'wished' I got something better.. Well, sometimes! LOL..I guess my point is.. Get what you 'feel' is what you want to spend and try to live with 'YOUR' decision!By the way if I had to change anything I'd spend all my money on a BIGGER AND HEATED SHOP!!!
Definitely go for the D4R.I have one (upgraded from the D4 which I had for a while) and the versatility is well worth it. You may not see it in the present project but, believe me, in the future you will have so many possibilities for innovation that you would kick yourself for not going with the "standard".
Variable size pins are important to me, for what that is worth. And the jig can be used with their isoloc system, should you desire it in the future.
I use the E-bush with the isolocs and it is neat. However the dovetail system is not that complicated. It does take some practice to feel comfortable and after that you are off to the races. Allow yourself a day to make a LOT of sawdust with scrap and then you will be OK.
And DO get the VRS dust/chip collecting attachment (http://www.leighjigs.com/vrs.php). I have been waiting for something like this since I got the original D4. Do NOT be tempted with their original dust collector - damn near useless.
Let us know what you decide.
Cheers,
Peter
I'm going with the D4R. You guys confirmed my feelings that I don't want to regret not having an option down the road for a $100.
As far as the woodrat goes, I wish I would never have known about it because I think I may have to have it. Very neat machine/jig. I will be adding it to my list but for right now I want a dedicated DT jig. With the woodrat, think of the quip - If your good at everything your not an expert at anything. That being said I'm sure the woodrat does a fantastic job of dovetails and apparently every other type of joint. I'm more refering to the ease of setup and versatility of one particular job. Like I said, it's on the list (which never seems to get shorter.)
I got the d4r and love it. Never done dovetails till I got it. Watched the DVD and my first try was a success.
P.S. Register for your birthday discount with woodcraft and get 10% off. I did.Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
g,
When you did your research did you consider a woodrat? This is not a DT jig per se but rather a universal machine that goes a long way to get the router cutting attractive but precise DTs....and many other joint types.
The woodrat is not quite so automatic as a dedicated DT jig but it does allow variable spacing and the production of slim DTs almost as skinny as those elegant handcut ones.
In terms of the "buy the best" principle, it's ability to create many other precision-made joints makes it "better" in terms of versatility and value for money than a dedicated DT jig. However, that Leigh may have the edge in terms of speed (don't know for sure, haven't used one myself) if it is purely DTs you are wanting to create.
Lataxe
I've had the D4R for quite a while and remain happy with it every time I use it. since the day I got it, I have never rethought that purchase decision.
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
I just finished using my D4R (24) this afternoon and was reassured that I had bought the right jig. I don't often need the full width but it's there for when I need it. I've seen a lot of commercial woodworkers with the Leigh jig on the shelf and the Porter Cable on the bench. But I understand why - they are in production and can't spend the time fiddling with set-up. But I'm the family's furniture maker and they have patience so speed is not my concern. Recommendation - go for it!
I heartily second Lataxe's recommendation of a WoodRat. There is not an equal to it for making traditional woodworking joints. There isn't a traditional joint you can't do on it, with ease and accuracy.
If you have looked at them and made the decision that is fine. But If you haven't looked into the Rat you should.
They are extremely versatile, and as well made as any piece of equipment I have bought. There are good demos on their website, and on youtube.
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