Replies

1. 
   ring | May 15, 2008 07:38am | #1

   Get some 4/4 poplar or soft maple to work on. Make a few small boxes with dovetail joints. Use your basswood if you want as the floating panel in the lid with pyrography.

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

2. 
   Len | May 15, 2008 07:48am | #2

   Malice,

   Your chisels need to be really sharp for basswood. Scary sharp. Have you considered using a coping saw and cleaning up with a #5 Xacto with a square blade. When cutting basswood it better to take light cuts and shear the end grain. Enjoy your new found love.

   Len

   "You cannot antagonize and influence at the same time. " J. S. Knox

3. 
   Lataxe | May 15, 2008 11:08am | #3

   M,

   I second Len's suggestion concerning use of the coping saw.  Also, scary sharp and a pointy bevel (even 25 degrees) helps to cut those fibrous and/or spongey woods where the wood is easily displaced/compressed rather than sliced by the pressure of the chisel's edge.  Pointy bevels don't like the sudden forces involved in use of a mallet, however, so they are best used only by hand to pare.

   Skew chisels seem to work better than square-edged ones when cutting across the grain at the bottom of a DT, expecially if the bevel is of low angle and the point as well as the edge is kept scary sharp.  The slicing action of the skew is much less prone to compressing the wood fibres and it's possible to make very clean cuts and/or to chisel-off very thin slivers.  "Very thin slivers" is probably a better approach than "big bites" when paring that soft wood you are using, although the work then will take a bit more time. 

   Many chisels have sides that are too thick for getting into the acute angles of DT bottoms.  If you can squeeze the piggy bank hard enough, Blue Spruce DT chisels are worth the expense as they have very sharp arises to their sides, which sides are also ground hollow.  They get right into the corner without squishing or grooving the adjacent wood fibres to the surface being pared.  The A2 blades of the BSers also take a very good edge which lasts.

   If the BS chisels are too much for that pig you might consider grinding down the sides of more workaday chisels, at least on that last inch at the cutting end, where they go into the DT.....  However, Sprucers make lovely presents on one's birthday, Xmas, Mother's Day and those many other days when a doting hubby ought to be considering chocs and flowers to indicate his devotion.  Chocs and flowers give only fleeting gratification whereas a Sprucer lasts and lasts.  :-)

   Lataxe

1. 
   Malice | May 15, 2008 04:39pm | #7

    However, Sprucers make lovely presents on one's birthday, Xmas, Mother's Day and those many other days when a doting hubby ought to be considering chocs and flowers to indicate his devotion.  Chocs and flowers give only fleeting gratification whereas a Sprucer lasts and lasts.  :-)

   LOL, that is cute but my husband isn't "doting" and doesn't buy me things, but the next time I buy myself something for one of those holidays i'll certainly consider them ;)

   My chisels are cheap!  But I rarely find a need for them (until now) so they were sufficient.

   I DID try a coping saw and ended up cheating and taking it to the scroll saw for final cleanup which worked OK, but if I can avoid the "mess" to begin with i'd like to!  I think with basswood, the xacto knife idea may be very effective and plan to try that approach next.

   For some boxes I can use another wood for the carcass and basswood for the top, but more often than not my customers request burning on the front and sides as well, so I have to get used to making this work.

   I thank you all again for the advice, and will consider it all when I practice cutting some more.  Sending the 2yr old to her godparents house this morning JUST so I can get some extra time in the shop to play with this :D

   ~Malice

1. 
   pzaxtl | May 15, 2008 05:43pm | #9

   LOL, that is cute but my husband isn't "doting" and doesn't buy me things, but the next time I buy myself something for one of those holidays i'll certainly consider them ;)

   Does this, perhaps, explain your user name?

1. 
   Malice | May 15, 2008 05:58pm | #10

   Does this, perhaps, explain your user name?

   Nah, i've used this name as an alias since highschool, a long long long time ago.  It does however explain my cynicism ;)

   ~Malice

2. 
   WillGeorge | May 16, 2008 03:21pm | #11

   I think with basswood, the xacto knife idea may be very effective and plan to try that approach next.

   Just my opinion AND BY THE WAY I have never worked with basswood except for model aeroplanes.. I think that was what they were call way back then..

   Xacto make some wonderful little ..What I call Razor saws of different sizes. As a old saying goes.. Try them you'll like them!

2. 
   Napie | May 16, 2008 07:35pm | #12

   Don’t buy new chisels, hunt the flea markets.  Chisels are the one tool that you can still find good used stuff at great prices.  My collection of “users” is at least thirty strong and none cost more than $5.00.  Look for <!----><!---->Stanley<!---->, Union, Buck Bros., <!----><!---->Millers<!----> <!---->Falls<!----><!----> and even old Craftsman.  You can find some great stuff; my last one was two Greenlee crank necked pattern makers pairing chisels for $2.00 each.  A bit of clean up and sharpening and they were put to work.  Also, at these prices you can modify them to suit any task.

1. 
   Malice | May 16, 2008 11:05pm | #13

   Thanks for the tip!  I was just told the other day by the inlaws that the flea market a few towns over had a TON of used and new tools last weekend so i'm gonna take a road trip out there sunday I think, if this weather ever passes.

   I did try to sharpen my chisels and it seemed to help a little bit.  I made a few more attempts at dovetails using some scrap pine laying around the shop and some turned out OK and some not so good.  I think i'm getting the technique down I just need to keep practicing and invest in a nice dovetail saw, I have been using a coping saw and a $10 japanese saw.  Can anyone recommend a good dovetail saw for under $50.  Some of the ones I see online cost as much or more than what I spent on my scroll or table saw!!

   Thanks again everyone :)

   ~Malice

2. 
   Lataxe | May 17, 2008 10:49am | #20

   Nap,

   Now and then I happen on a car boot sale (as improptu markets are called here in Blighty) where there are often old tools for sale.  The brand names are a bit different, I suspect, from the typical ones found in America but there are often old Sorby or Marples chisels.

   I am a little tempted when I see these things but then think of the renovation work and the possibility of buying rubbish (being uninformed as I am).  There are a number of interesting brace & bit, egg-beater and other hand drills lurking in my shed however - all got for £4 - £5 ($8 - $10) each and now awaiting my renovation efforts (well down the list of things to do though)....

   Here is an interesting website for you concerning tools.  (Apologies if you already know of it):

   http://www.finefurnituremaker.com/woodworking_tools.htm

   The site is that of Mr David Savage, by name and by nature (at least when it comes to judging the quality of tools).  One interesting aspect of his findings from many years of cabinet-making is his belief that many old steels take a better edge than modern stuff like A2, albeit the edges don't last nearly as long.....  Like you, he mocks the sharpening jig.  :-)

   Mr S's furniture is often of an alarming pointy nature - very contemporary but even more frightening than them scuttle-legged things.  He certainly seems capable of weilding the tools.  His site also contains a lot of no-nonsense how-to pages, mostly free.

   Lataxe

1. 
   Napie | May 17, 2008 05:46pm | #21

   That is a great website; I have it bookmarked, thank you.  I tend to agree with his opinion on steels.  I very much enjoy to process of getting old hand tools back in shape and put to work in the shop.  Most new ones that you buy, excepting those that you have paid enough for that they are tuned at the factory, i.e., an L-N plane for example, require as much work as a flea market find.

   <!----><!----> <!---->

   And of course he is sharpening jig free so he is aright in my book!

4. 
   hammer1 | May 15, 2008 01:28pm | #4

   Don't try to drive the chisel deep. Just take a little tap and come in to it with a second cut, in a V, towards the incised cut. Take a little nibble at a time. Even hard maple will crush if you try to hammer in deeply.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

5. 
   MikeHennessy | May 15, 2008 03:01pm | #5

   Everybody develops their own "system". As others have said, sharp chisels help. I use short butt chisels for dovetails, because they're easier and less tiring to control than the long ones, since your hand stays closer to the working end. Mine, like yours, fall squarely in the "crappy" category, since it's hard to find good butt chisels. (The high-end chisel makers seem to concentrate on bench chisels -- go figger!)  

   I have gotten away from fussy sharpening techniques. Surgical edges last about 10 seconds on crappy chisels, and about 20 seconds on good chisels, when you're banging away on dovetails in hard maple or oak, which is what I usually use for drawer sides. I simply grind a primary bevel and then put a secondary bevel on with a couple of diamond stones. I keep the fine stone handy when doing dovetails to touch up the edge every 15 minutes or so -- just a stroke or three.

   It helps to saw the waste out to within about 1/16" of the line with a coping saw, then just pare to the line with the chisel. You can do it without the saw though -- just don't chisel quite all the way to the line when you're hogging out the waste. Save that for last, after the waste has been removed, so you can sneak up on it, paring straight down or better, undercutting just a smidge, half way from each side.

   You can start your final cuts to the line with a utility knife or X-Acto, cutting straight down and then at an angle, like this:  |/    to make a reference on the workpiece to rest the chisel in on the final cut. The final cut should start only about 1/32", tops, from the line. Torn end grain is the result of trying to take off too much wood on the cut. Think about how you would plane endgrain -- you only take off a few thousandths of an inch, otherwise the plane grabs, gouges and stalls. Same with chiseling.

   Finally, once you perfect the technique, you'll realize you've been wasting your time. The endgrain inside a dovetail joint is never seen and does almost nothing to strengthen the joint, since end grain doesn't really make much of a glue joint. It's really only the glue joint between the sides of the pins and tails, and the joint's mechanics, that hold everything together. Concentrate on getting good saw cuts and a clean, straight line on the shoulders, maybe 1/16" deep. After that, it doesn't much matter. If it LOOKS good when assembled, it IS good.

   Finally, get yourself a copy of Frank Klaus' excellent video on dovetailing drawers. Watch it. The clouds will part, birds will sing, and the sun will shine on you henceforth. You will be joyous and prosper. ;-)

   Mike Hennessy
   Pittsburgh, PA

1. 
   RVH | May 15, 2008 03:27pm | #6

   Try Gary G's Five Minute dovetails at http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/skillsandtechniques/skillsandtechniquespdf.aspx?id=30009.

    

   RVH

6. 
   pzaxtl | May 15, 2008 05:41pm | #8

   Sounds like your chisels are dull.  Put a sharp edge on them and they'll cut cleanly and quickly.

7. 
   g_hepplewhite | May 16, 2008 11:55pm | #14

   Malice,

   It looks like you received some good responses on cutting the dovetails. Now for some good tips on working while the kids are asleep. I to find that the only time that I have available is when the kids are asleep, for me that is between the hours of 3 and 6:30 am. I have 2 systems in place for when they need to contact me when I am out in the shop. The first is a baby monitor and the  second is a strobe that is activated by a little $15 remote control (available at most home centers). Between the dog and the two aforementioned devises I can work in the shop and know that my kids are safe and asleep.

   Tom

    

1. 
   Malice | May 17, 2008 01:21am | #16

   Thanks for the tips Tom.  I do uses a monitor while out there for my 2yr old, but my son is old enough to come get me if he needs me :)

   The real issue is that my shop is attached to the house and even though they are clear on the other end of the house, my husband swears the saws will wake them.  I run the saws during naptime everyday (hubby is at work) and it never bothers the baby, but he insists i'm crazy.  I think he's more concerned with his own sleep being interrupted. *shrug*

   ~Malice

1. 
   BruceS | May 17, 2008 11:36pm | #22

   Tell your husband that my Mother used to do the laundry and vacuuming when I was put down for a nap.  And it was comforting to know where she was at and when she was done doing whatever I was awakened by the silence.  I still go to be bed with a Fan running.Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

8. 
   fitzsean | May 17, 2008 12:05am | #15

   Get Jim Kingshott's DVD and Ian Kirby's book. I would advise you to buy a jeweler's saw and put in a good scroll saw blade. Then you bend the blade so that it runs across rather than up and down in the frame. Sawing the waste and pareing works much better.

1. 
   Malice | May 17, 2008 01:23am | #17

   I'm not sure what a jewelers saw is, but wouldn't using a scrollsaw blade in a handheld saw be just like a coping saw?  Not that I have a clue, but that's what I pictured after reading what you said :)

   ~Malice

1. 
   fitzsean | May 17, 2008 06:04am | #18

   View Image

   You can put more tension on the blade than a coping saw.

   The scroll saw blade is narrower and thinner ... fits into the saw kerf better...turns quicker.

    

1. 
   Malice | May 17, 2008 06:28am | #19

   I see!  That may certainly be an option for messing with the basswood!  I have a ton of scroll saw blades, so I'll look into getting my hands on one of those saws now.

   Thanks so much!

   ~Malice