I’ve been looking at buying a new jointer for my workshop. My old bench jointer died, and I want to move up to a nicer floor model with a wider bed (6″ is not really enough). I’ve been looking at a pretty reasonably priced $1800 12 inch jointer by Grizzly. The problem I am encountering is that it appears to come almost entirely assembled and weighs well over half a ton.
I cannot imagine how I am going to move this type of machinery. Liftgate service gets it into my driveway. My workshop is in my garage, which is flush with a paved driveway which is long, flat, and easily accessible to a delivery truck. What is the best way to get this into my workshop and in place? The manual recommends using machinery and lifting straps attached on either side of the cast iron table. I don’t even know what machinery would do this in a residential garage.
Any ideas? Is there a way to do this myself or with a few guys, or to rent a machine that could make it possible? Is there a company that I can hire to assist with this? How have you guys set up the really heavy machinery in a residential setting?
Thanks in advance.
Replies
I finally went and bought an engine hoist. Have only used it a few times, but, man, it was worth it!
Perhaps you could rent one.
Cheers,
Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
The way that I've handled equipment in the past (although I note that a cabinet saw has been the biggest) is with a refrigerator handtruck, or with the hoists that work on air pressure. They actually work surprisingly well, although they won't get the machine off the bed of a truck.
A ramp is worth considering. A wide ramp, with toekicks, and lots of healthy, strong young men who can be relied on to do what they're told, immediately.
Don't let anyone get downslope of the machine, and make sure the toekicks will stop it from rolling off the sides of the ramp. Really.
Thanks both for the advice.Fortunately I don't need to raise it up at all. The road, driveway, and garage are all flat and flush (driveway newly paved). I just need to move it into place and then keep it there.I had considered using a rolling base permanently (I do this with most stationary tools, including table saw, band saw, etc.) but am thinking it may not be feasible with such a large jointer, so I will just have to position it where I can use it, maybe moving other pieces if needed.If I could get it hoisted then I should be able to roll it into place and let it down. That would likely work. I plan to get liftgate delivery so I don't have to get it off the truck. Usually, when I get liftgate delivery they can get the item into the garage even, but just a few feet in.
For someone who is experienced with moving heavier equipment this would be a really easy job since you are on a level surface the whole way. If you are in Vermont let me know and I could help you out.
You might call a local moving company and ask them to handle it, if they seem to think it is too much for them, they probably know someone they would recommend. The guys who specialize in moving machinery are called riggers, so look in the phone book for one of them first.
If you are going to try to move it yourself the most basic way to do it is to roll it on pipes or wood rollers 2 to 3 inches in diameter. Slide the machine off of its pallet onto a platform made from two layers of 3/4" plywood. Then lever it up on one end and put a few lengths of pipe underneath the platform and you are ready to go. Sometimes the biggest problem once you have it on pipes is that you don't have brakes, it can roll too easily.
A thousand pounds is too much weight for most engine hoists, I wouldn't try to use one for this job.
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
I'm actually in Newtown, CT, about 5 miles from Taunton's headquarters. I used to work in the plaza next to them when I was in high school.I will see about finding a rigger around here.
Actually I will be down that way next week, getting a lot of tools, or junk, depending on your point of view, out of storage.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
I am still working on setting up the garage and haven't placed the order for the machine yet... so I'm not sure when it will arrive.I appreciate the offer though, and will let you know when it happens.
<<A thousand pounds is too much weight for most engine hoists, I wouldn't try to use one for this job.>>This is the one I have, good to 2000lbs. http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G8712-ENGINE-CRANE/dp/B0000DCZ8JCheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
>Too much for the engine crane<John White is right. I'd listen to him. Once the boom is extended the capacity goes way down and that jointer is way too big to work with an engine hoist. Think it out.I have a similar hoist and move 500 lb with it but smaller length stuff that the "legs" can straddle. See photo at bottom of this old post:http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=46960.6.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 10/7/2009 12:08 am by roc
I don't understand. If the thing is rated to 2000lbs, who am I to second guess the engineering and construction?Perhaps a mechanical engineer among our group could come forward and tell us why this is a potentially hazardous claim. Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Peter,"I don't understand. If the thing is rated to 2000lbs, who am I to second guess the engineering and construction?"I bought my lathe used, ad the guy said he could help deliver it. When I showed up he had this little lift attached to the back of the truck. Rated to 1500lbs... He was very proud of it.As it was lifting you could hear the thing straining... it was to the point that I was standing as far away as I could. When we unloaded it we could see the connections to the truck were bent. What a mess. The lathe was on 500lbs.Buster
That lift may very well have been rated for 1500 lbs. The bed of the truck probably isn't. At least not for the amount of torque that the small base of the lift will put on the thin sheet metal. Best to stand back.Andy
The maximum load that an engine hoist can handle, and they tend to be "optimistic" with these ratings in catalogs, is with the load as close as possible to the post and centered and fully within the area between the two horizontal legs. This rating also doesn't take into account the sudden extra stresses that can occur when you are moving the suspended load on pavement and something catches a wheel or the ground slopes.Before anyone goes out and buys a pallet jack, be aware that they rarely will fit under the oddball pallets that most machines come sitting on. I know this from long experience.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
If it helps, the actual weight listed in the manual is 1036 lbs.
Bobcat
Ok guys some clarifications here. The weight 1036 pounds includes whe wooden outside shell and the steel pallet it is bolted to. Take that stuff away and it's 875 LBS! A pallet jack works fine the base has three tubular steel tubes. If you have tailgait delivery which I reccomend, the driver will roll it off the and into your garage. You can then decrate use an engine hoist and it will take all of thirty minutes to do.
See my earlier link with photos. The manual even gives you instructions on how to strap and it works as advertised. Now if you need to negotiate steps or inclines it's a whole different story. This can be done with one person!
I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.George Burns
I have a hoist like the one Peter suggested, and have moved plenty of things harder than this project with ease. I usually lift it, then put some heavy timber across the leg rails to let it rest on while rolling it around. This takes care of the problem of having it swinging around. It basically becomes the cart once it is sitting on the leg rails. But then I have moved plenty of heavy equipment with poles for rollers using leverage to nudge it along, the hoist is just a lot easier in my opinion.
On the side of the boom are holes to place a pin depending on the amount of boom extension you select. There are load limits posted near the holes on mine. This determines the load limit. For max boom extension you may be down to 700 lb. maxThink about it. A crane can lift more weight if the boom is nearly vertical. If the boom is horizontal there is way more stress at the base the boom is attached to or in this case where the ram pushes. As the boom gets longer it vasty multiplies the stess at the fulcrum. The boom is the lever and the ram point is the fulcrum.To lift this thousand pound plus package ( I assume that is what is meant by half a ton ) the boom will be horizontal and with the extension short but it is a large package so will most likely hit on the uprights or braces at minimum extension ( highest weight lift pin hole on the boom ) . Can't really set the boom tall because you will need to clear your shop door entry. Or maybe you have a big door like for a motor home. That would be a different story. Hoist is unstable to move over pebbles that might stop the wheel with the boom way tall so sweep the drive.Crane scenario not the best example because the crane will simply topple over if the boom is horizontal but hopefully that helps picture the problem.Also as I said you have to get the long legs of the hoist's base under the pallet. The pallet truck I posted is designed to go into the pallet and stick through the bottom. I am pretty sure the wheel hight plus the square tube's hight on the engine hoist is too tall to fit inside the pallet. Now you need to raise your pallet high enough to get the legs of the hoist under because you won't be able to straddle the pallet the wide way and the skinny way the box/jointer is going to run into the hoist.Stacking wood to raise the crate is sort of precarious. If you have some planks of wood you don't mind grinding rocks into from the drive way etc., can use those. May be taller than one 4x4 so stacking wider stuff is safer.Then once you get inside the garage reverse the process.At this point you are going to appreciate the pipes for close quarter maneuverability that John W. recommended. You may want to just use those from the beginning.It seems like I am contradicting myself because I recommended the engine hoist in a previous post. That was to get smaller stuff in or out of a truck with no lift gate. I then often use the pipes inside the shop. So I suppose the short of it is you are already out of the truck so just use the pipesrocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 10/7/2009 1:49 pm by roc
Yep, the load decals are (from the main frame) 2T, 1 1/2T, 1T, 1/2T.Those are the figures I go by when using it.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
>1T<I demure. Looks like your's is bigger than mine.Go for it !rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Not a problem. It sounds like your are in good shape. You have a couple of options. When I got my G609 delivered, the driver put it in the garage with a pallet jack. I went and rented a engine hoist and bougt a couple straps (with hooks rated for 2k lbs) and when it arrived took the bolts out and lifted it into place. Piece of cake. I still have the packing crate (steel) using it as a wood storage platform. When I moved, the movers put it into the basement but did not place it where I wanted. Rather than rent another hoist, I used a regular jack with some blocks and lifted one end high enough to put my apliance dolly under one end and repeated for the other with a second dolly. Moved it to the right place and reversed the procedure and it worked as well.
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=38959.1
I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.
George Burns
Rent a pallet jack, make sure it is rated for 1000 lbs or more.You may need help pulling the pallet jack,once it is in the garage you can set it on a mobile base. If the machine is set on blocks slightly higher than the mobile base, then after the base is under the machine, one side is lifted high enough to remove the blocking. Then the other side is lifted and the blocking removed.
If you are not comfortable with this than a rigger would be your best option.
mike
I second the notion of pipe rollers. I have moved heavier things quickly and easily with the method. A stout pry bar can get the first one started and you're rollin' with ease. It will require leap frogging the rollers whichmeans it can't run away too far at a time. Still though you need to work with an eye to safety.
This might help. I bet you could rent one.
http://www.lkgoodwin.com/more_info/cranes_all_types/gantry_and_tripod_cranes/gantry_and_tripod_cranes.shtml
Hight is an issue but the white one looks like it has holes to adjust lower.
Or one of these
http://www.directindustry.com/prod/mobile-industries/hand-pallet-truck-24040-65330.html
The pipes work great too. Have several so you can keep putting them ahead of where you are rolling onto; if that makes sense.
PS: depending on the mood of the driver, the length of your driveway and the coldness of your beer fridge you may be able to get the driver to just use his hand pallet truck to move the crate the length of your drive and into your garage. This is what he will use to get the crate onto the lift gate so it is no big operation to drag it off the lift gate and up into your garage. They did this with my big drill press.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 10/7/2009 12:02 am by roc <!-- ROC2013 -->
Edited 10/7/2009 12:04 am by roc
"Liftgate service gets it into my driveway."
If that means it is lifted off the truck onto the ground that is one problem out of the way.
"My workshop is in my garage, which is flush with a paved driveway which is long, flat, and easily accessible to a delivery truck. What is the best way to get this into my workshop and in place?"-----That makes it very easy even if it were double the weight or more. Have it set down onto small diameter pipes or rods- I have found this easier than larger diameters as John suggested.The more rollers you have the better.
Having a buddy or two on hand would help with the pushing of the machine on the rollers, but even by yourself if you have a pry bar with flattened end you can easily lever it along on the rollers. I would say at least two pry bars of length 5 feet or more would be essential. Small diameter rollers make it easy to get the load on and off them and there is virtually no reason to lift the thing at all.
Is it coming crated? Or on a pallet? Or just on its base?
This kind of thing is very easy as long as you are not in a hurry and use some common sense rather than brute force, and I assume you are in good health.....
Philip Marcou
Edited 10/7/2009 5:10 am by philip
It's the Grizzly 609 12 inch jointer, although I am not absolutely committed to that model. I do want a 12 inch though probably... 6 is not enough, 8 usually is but not always. It ships in a wooden crate.This is from the manual:The Model G0609 requires the use of lifting
equipment such as a forklift, engine hoist, or
boom crane. DO NOT lift the machine by hand.
If you are unsure how to lift this jointer, consult ####qualified professional.
To lift the jointer:1. Wrap lifting straps around the infeed and
outfeed tables. Position the straps as close
to the base as possible to prevent damaging
the tables.2. With lifting straps positioned evenly, lift the
jointer (Figure 6) off of the pallet and onto
the floor.Seems to be fully assembled but in a wooden crate. Obviously, I can disassemble the sides of the crate. I don't know how to get it off the pallet though.And no, no health issues to worry about, unless of course the jointer falls on me...
Edited 10/7/2009 7:29 am ET by Matt98
Rent or buy a pallet jack. I used one to remove my Hammer slider from the pallet and use it to move my slider occasionally. I have also moved other machines in my shop but it does require creative thinking to get the forks under the machine. I would also recommend a narrow one, 20" fork width.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.
i second jerry's comment. i have a felder cf741p combination machine which tips the scales at just under 2300 lbs. it was delivered by car carrier. we tilted the bed up, and winched the machine down onto the driveway. then, built a ramp from the pallet height down to ground level (using 4x4's ripped at an angle, spaced 12" on center, underneath a sheet of OSB), and used a narrow fork pallet jack to bring the machine off the pallet. it all came together much more simply than i could have ever hoped. that pallet jack was/is a serious life saver.
cheers,
bert
if it's worth doing at all, then it's worth doing well.
I also had my Hammer saw/shaper delivered by a roll back car carrier. The driver tilted the bed and I was able to push the pallet to the end of the ramp. I then used the pallet jack to get it into the shop. I did not use a ramp to get the machine off the pallet. I used two 2 x 10's under the machine and jacked it up using the pallet jack. I used wood blocks under each end of the 2 x 10 until the machine cleared the pallet. I then removed the wood blocks altering between end until the machine was on the ground.
The $100 I spend was well worth it as I was picturing bad things happening to my saw/shaper during delivery. The driver had never done this before but he did an excellent job and was were accommodating. Everything went super smooth without a hitch.
Also get a 20" wide by 48" long pallet jack. They are somewhat harder to find but as John WW said pallets are different and the narrow jack will work better in most cases.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.
I move quite a few gun safes that weigh as much or more, and several pieces of 1 1/2" PVC pipe is all I use. I can move a safe easily with this rig. It would depend on how your machine is crated/palleted, but pipe is hard to beat............
Rich
I like the idea of using pipes as rollers, too. Back when I did consulting work for the Pharaoh Khufu . . . ;-)
>consulting work for the Pharaoh Khufu<How was the beer ? Any good ?rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 10/7/2009 1:51 pm by roc
Yep. There's nothing like 4th Dynasty beer. ;-)
The next time the fleet comes in, contact the USO and tell them you have enough beer for a squad of Marines.After everyone has had one, pick out the biggest, strongest Private, point at the jointer, and tell them you don't think they can move it from where it is to where you want it.
I didn't think I was all that patriotic until I read that.Made a lump in my throat and a smile on my face at the same time !Thank you.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Fast forward forty years."Back In The Day, we got shore leave, an' there was this guy. He gave us beer, then he bet Mick that we couldn't move this big-assed machine, that did something or other to wood.You shoulda seen his face when we picked that sucker up, walked it across his shop, an' set it down, right exactly where he said..."
Edited 10/7/2009 8:12 pm by Jammersix
Just call this guy http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/posts/moving_big_rocks/ In all seriousness be careful and get some help.
Troy
That is amazing. Thanks.
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
At first I thought they where Styrofoam blocks:) I still wonder how he got the small rock under the big block of stone to get it started. Very fun.Troy
My guess is that he used levers to roll the block onto the pivot stone(s).
Thanks for the link, Troy. An amazing application of a couple of simple concepts.
Guys like that amaze me.
>Wally Wallington<Looks like me at moving time. Haven't knocked myself out cold yet. Knock on wood.Here is a similar sort of thing but I will not be attempting it. This guy is in town right now. His bike got smashed in shipping. He said he paid $ 4000 to have the bike shipped to America and they smashed it.I told him for $ 4000 he could have rented a plane and flew it here himself. He said " or at least bought the bike a ticket in first class and stood it up in the seat beside him".The bike was made in 1932 and he has gone over 100,0000 miles with it. I think if it were me I would be out there smashing some planes. You know just to fit in and be one of the guys. Don't want the airlines to have ALL the fun.sheeeshWhat do the people who have really irreplaceable musical instruments and inventions do ?My surfer girl friend once built a wooden crate for her pro level road race bicycle and when she was checking it in at the air port they refused to accept it until she taped over the Fragile stickers. Crooks ! Pirates ! Knuckle draggers !Makes me crazy !anyway he is here, I spoke with him a couple of times and Tuesday we attempt to straighten things out as it werehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6421555326087748067#PS:Wow sorry, I hadn't watched that yet. Thought it might be about his recent trip. Here are more photoshttp://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=293440617&albumID=154529&imageID=404427As I said going to try to get the rig moving again. Not pro or con here just a simple mechanic.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )Edited 10/11/2009 5:40 pm by roc <!-- ROC2013 -->Edited 10/11/2009 6:00 pm by roc <!-- ROC2013 -->
Edited 10/11/2009 6:44 pm by roc
Any ideas? Give the driver a few beers and get him/her drunk and YOU drive the truck closer to the shop!
Matt:
Here's how I moved my combo (2,400 lbs) into my shop in the back yard.
1. Rented a tipping trailer and pallet jack from local rental place.
2. Picked up equipment at terminal and had them load onto trailer with forklift.
3. Reversed trailer to doors of shop and "tipped" trailer until the edge was over the threshold
4. Used pallet jack to move machine into shop.
This was done with one other person and my wife. You will also save the cost of home delivery to offset the rent of the trailer and jack.
Hastings
Matt,
I am over in Katonah, NY ... used to be in Newtown over in Sandy Hook. Last year I bought the G9860 12" Jointer. The UPS Freight driver and I took it off the truck lift gate pushed it up my driveway from the street and into my garage on his pallet jack. My driveway is fairly flat but the lip at the street is a 6-8" rise. Once in the garage I used a rented engine hoist ($50.00 for the day) to move it into position in my basement shop. Luckily I have a double wide door from the garage to the basement. Keep it low and go slow. Good Luck. I think you will enjoy it when you get it set up.
Matt,
I didn't read through all the posts, so forgive me if someone has already suggested this.
That machine is going to come on a pallet. The driver will have to get it to the back of the truck and onto the lift gate some how. I guarantee he is going to have a pallet jack in the truck that he will use. I would be willing to bet he will let you, and even help you move the machine into the garage, on his pallet jack. It will take all of what 60 seconds once it's off the lift gate?
Tip the guy $10 and then all you have to do is get the pallet out from under and plug it in.
Matt,
You've had a lot of excellent advice here but don't discount the riggers option.
I have been responsible for installing a fair amount of heavy machinery over the years and watching a good rigger team working can be an incredible experience. These guys have exactly what is needed and use it in an effortless way.
In my last project they placed 4 tanks 5.6 metres tall in a 6 metre high building where the clearance to the beams was 5.4 metres. Not a single swear word was uttered.
I don't know what the cost will be for your job but it may be worth finding out. It could well be something they could pop in and do on their way across town.
It would really depend on the cost.Also, swear words are ok if that would save me some cash. =P
Swear words are frequently an indication that things are not going to plan. That's when the smart project manager suggests a coffee break :-)
>swear words are frequently an indication that things are not going to plan<I don't know about cussing a foreign made machine to improve its attitude while moving it. However I do know when attempting to make it work, to endeavor to cuss it in any language other than the language of the land in which it was manufactured tends to be futile.: )rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Not a single swear word was uttered. In your language?
You obviously know that Maltese is easy to swear in - all those x's!
I'd roll it on pipes. The smaller the dia the better so you don't have to pick it up as much.
All you have to do is get one pipe under one side first.
Then you start rolling it so you can get a few more under it.
I've learned that you never pick up the whole thing if you can help it. Just half.
Will Rogers
>"There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Now that's funnyDoesn't that prove there is a God. And he has a sense of humor ? I mean if you were all alone and bored how would you set things up ?Thanks for the yuck !rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Electric fences do present quite a dilemma for certain people."There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
I agree that if it's coming on a lift gate truck, the driver will certainly roll the palette in to the garage for you.
If you do need to move it on rollers, to turn corners you start angling the pipes. I don't think anyone mentioned that.
Good luck,
Adam
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