How to move PM2000 down flight of stairs
Hi folks, I’m hoping one of you can help me with this: I have a new Powermatic 2000 tablesaw arriving soon and need to move it down to the basement workshop. It comes in 5 packages and I suspect the main package is the saw itself (without wings, etc.) and probably weighs 500-600 pounds. I THINK my stairs are strong enough; they are standard basement stairs with one intermediate landing.
I had thought about putting something on the stairs such as 1/4 plywood to serve as a ramp of sorts and renting a deluxe dolly — work the saw onto the ramp somehow and get some friends to somehow guide it down. Or maybe a deluxe dolly could sort of serve as the ramp.
Anyway, I’m sure some of you have encountered this sort of thing and probably at a minimum can tell me what NOT to do!
Thanks in advance, John
Replies
Facing the same problem myself soon, but can only offer thoughts, not advice. I have noted that you can move a lot of weight with a dolly, but in very short movements. It seems to me that if you put a ramp on your stairs you'll have to hold the saw for the whole distance of the stairs. If you lose control it'll have a long way to go (but it won't take long to get there). I've also been wondering about tying a rope to the axle of the dolly and running it upstairs between my legs to a friend who could take some of the weight. I anticipate that the impact of the saw descending onto each step will be significantly more than its actual weight, so reinforcing the treads may be in order. If three or four large people can stand on your stairs without disaster the stairs as a whole will likely support the saw, but each individual tread might not. At any rate, think how much you'll learn about your saw by dismantling and reassembling it!
John,
I'm not sure what you mean by a deluxe dolly. I've always rented or borrowed an appliance dolly, the kind with the tracks on the sides for rolling up or down stairways. If your stairway is wide enough you could get a man on each handle. Negotiating that landing will probably be the worst part.
Basement stairways are too steep for a ramp. That would be even more dangerous IMO. If you are worried about the strength of your stairway you might add some temporary bracing.
Good luck
-Chuck
John,
I was faced with a somewhat similar situation last summer with my new Unisaw. After considering a number of senarios, we strapped the saw onto a heavy appliance handtruck and tied off a couple of heavy ropes to each side of the handtruck top rail. With one man guiding the load from the front, and two handling the ropes, we lowered the saw down the steps with no problem. Pieces of beveled scrap stock placed at thresholds smoothed the procedure. Elapsed time from opening the shipping crate to placing the saw in its final position was about 35 min.
Good luck!
I have moved five large machines into my basement, and my first piece of advice would be to try and find another place for your shop -- garage, rented space etc. -- anything! I moved my stuff in almost twenty years ago when I was a young guy. Now that I'm becoming an old guy, I have nightmares about getting it all back out someday. An alternative would be to hire a rigger. This is the wimpy solution, but probably the most efficient and safest. But if you want to give it a shot yourself, I'll tell how I handled the move. Perhaps it will help.
I placed a sheet 3/4" plywood on the stairs. The weight of the crates was more than enough to allow them to slide downward. I tied a heavy duty rope around each to control the slide as we (myself and four other guys) brought them down. Once in the basement, we pushed them to their approximate final locations. I was on my own after that. All in all, it wasn't too bad and nobody was hurt. Five guys may be able to take them back out when it's time, but it won't be the same five guys who brought them down.
The landing may be an issue for you, but with enough help, probably not a huge deal. I would not use a dolly as it will make the descent way too easy for that much weight and things could quickly get out of hand. And, make sure your helpers at least kind of have a clue. There's always one guy that want to be in the wrong place at the wrong time -- check your insurance.
Recently moved a Grizzley 1023 to my basement. Strapped it to a Harbor Freight dolly. Two guys kept resistance on it and it went down easier then I ever thought. The dolly has large pnuematic tires, $59.00 on sale for $39.00. Oversize platform helped also. Best $39.00 I ever spent. I use it for everything. Good luck.
JpWack,
I think your over estimating the weight...probably more like 200-250 lbs. for the main chunk...and if you remove the top, about 125 lbs left.
Remember, it is significantly top heavy so moving it upside down may be preferable. Everyone worries about the move in but manages just the same, good luck.
John,
I asked the same question when I got my PM2000. See thread # 29600.1. A lot of good advice. What I ended up doing was having 4 very strong friends come over. I rented an appliance dolly and strapped the saw to it. Two guys at the bottom, one on each handle on the top, and another who stayed at the top holding a rope tied to the top of the dolly. One stair at a time and it was not too bad. It scared me when it went down the 1st step and the weight kicked in but all went well. Based on John White's suggestion, I did not remove the motor. I agree with another poster who said that putting a plywood ramp may not be safe. With a dolly you can tip it as you lower it so it stops at each stair.
The saw is fantastic! That's a good thing because there NO was that it will ever go back UP the stairs - at least in my lifetime! Enjoy your new saw!
John L
I moved my PM66 into my basement with a HD dolly and one friend. I took the rails off, but left the top and motor attached. Strapped it to the dolly really tight. We're both pretty stout, but no problems. Like someone else said, it want a lot easier than I thought. No plywood, we rested a few seconds on each step.
Getting it out is a different thing, last time I moved I hired piano movers for the piano. They loaded my shop from the basement onto the truck for $250 (PM66, 8" jointer, 15" planer, 300 pound bench, big BS, .....). I'd have paid double. ;)
--
don
Just unloaded mine from a pickup into my shop - took tailgate off and put 4' boards to make a ramp and with three much younger helpers just let it slide down. I think the dolly and rope arrangement with adequate help should work on stairs. Remove the CI wings in the main box and weight should be in 400# range.
One other note: when you get fence packages they should be in white cardboard containers with Accufence written on them. DAMHIKT.
Don't do the ramps! I tried that with my planer(800 lbs) a buddy put his foot on the 2x12 and slipped a couple of steps. Not good! My whole shop is in the basement under my garage and house and we used NAZARD's method with the most success. Get a good appliance dolly then use two heavy duty rachet straps to bind it to the dolly. The dolly's strap always comes loose. I used 3/4" dockline ropes tied to the handles but that is what I had(fisherman) and then have two guys wrap the ropes behind them and use the threshold for friction also. Keep the guys on top back away from the door to get better leverage. A couple guys on the bottom and you are all set. With that light weight you might get way with one on the bottom. Pizza and beer is cheap, get as many guys as you think you need. You'll have no trouble. If you unsure about your stairs put a couple lolly columns or 4x4's midway on the stringers will support a lot of weight.
I'll offer a piece of advice that I got from a machinery rigger, and I've seen the wisdom of this proven several times:
Never, ever, put somebody below the load, if things go wrong they are going to get crushed. Place your helpers above the machine and use ropes, as suggested, to take up the weight.
Strapping the load onto a dolly with multiple straps is definitely good advice. I wouldn't use plywood on the stairs, one step at a time allows better control.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
John,
I agree with you 100% My stairs is 4' wide and leaves an out for anyone, but putting four guys on the ropes would be safer. Even DI offensive lineman can have something go wrong(300+)
Thank you all for very helpful answers and I appreciate very much the feedback. I especially liked hearing that the main package might be more like 400 lbs and that maybe 3-4 people could do this. I think I will try the following:- rent a nice appliance dolly with pneumatic tires
- strap the saw with the good straps I use for my kayak to the car
- tie ropes at both handles of the dolly and wrap them around two big friends
- guide the saw down with a 3rd person at the top of the dolly
- don't put anyone below the sawSounds very doable. Getting it back out down the road will be another story, probably time for the professional movers at that point!Thank you again, John
JP,
tie ropes at both handles of the dolly and wrap them around two big friends
I would suggest instead of tying the ropes to a friend, place a 2X4 or 4X4 across the doorway at the top of the stairs. Wrap the end of rope opposite the dolly around the 2X4 once, and one person could let the slack out very slowly. Tying ropes around friends could drag them down the stairs if something went wrong. This way, you could get by with less friends or a friend that is not a defensive tackle.
P.S. Use a rope that is rated for 1200 pounds, don't skimp on cheap rope. That's a lot of weight and an expensive item. And if you are not familiar with knots, find someone who is. 10 granny knots is not going to do the trick
By the way, the 2X4 at the top of the stairs will aid in getting the saw back up should ever the need arise. A come-a-long and a separate safety rope or chain will do the trick.
Good luck and be safe.
Lee
You may also want to set up a block and tackle at the top of your stairwell for the ropes to pass through.
Monte
I did this same thing several years ago, I too used a big appliance dollly with straps. I opened the crate and unloaded as much as possible from the box, you will need to align the top during set up, so removing it was only a little more work.
Good Luck
I moved a DJ20 Jointer down 15 stairs into my basement. The unit is 600#s and is fairly large. I made a "piano dolly" which consists of a heavy wood frame on two large skids. The frame has cut-outs to accommodate load straps and is provisioned with two reinforced holes on either side of the rear for guide ropes. You'll need three friends to help control and guide it down the stairs. In any case DO NOT HAVE ANY ONE IN FRONT OF THE UNIT!!! You will find the unit will be easy to control and there will be no crushed toes or broken backs.
Good Luck!
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