New 8″ Grizzly jointer on the way. It comes in two pieces. The base weighs 125 lbs. and the top is 400+ lbs. Base shoudn’t be a problem, (I got the mobile base), its putting on the top. Is this a sheer brute strength and ignorance job?
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Replies
I havn't handled that particular tool, but I've moved and adjusted tools that were the same or heavier, and my main advice is be very careful ! That kind of weight can crush fingers and toes, or worse. Try to have a few clear timbers available (4x4 or bigger), some cinder blocks or other steady block or bench type things, and you might find a hydraulic jack handy. At the least, one or two steady friends would be good. Move slowly, do it while fresh and alert, and have fun.
Sounds like good advise. I've been thinking about using an engine jack.
This is sage advice. When I got my jointer, I picked up one end just to gauge the weight. I then accidentally set it down on a finger. Don't do that!!!
How are the other nine doing?.... <ouch>Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
I bought a used chain hoist from a friend and hung it in my garage ceiling with a header and side support posts, backed my pickup under it, and using some stout straps picked up my new 8" Grizzly jointer top. The base of the jointer was already on the HTC mobile base.. The rest is, as they say, history.
Pretty much what I did. For some reason, my 1828 house has steel I-beams in the basement of its stone foundation for bearing walls. Very handy for hanging a chain hoist over... just make sure that if you use a hoist or winch that the cross beam that you hang it on can handle the load. Many a shade tree mechanic has found out the hard way...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Do you have an engine hoist? Harbor Freight has them on sale nearly every month for $150. I got one and a couple of fiberglass towing straps for a similar task. It will cover many needs in moving and setting up machinery.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35915
If you don't desire to go that route, consider renting one.
If you don't want to go with either of these options, you need 4 people who can easily handle a couple of hundred pounds each. Don't take a chance with lightweights who will struggle. Dropping the top is neither good for the people it might fall on nor the machine itself.
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
I have thought about renting an engine hoist. I've also thought about renting a small tractor about the size of the old Ford's with a bucket or forks. I've got a pretty good crack that separates my driveway from the garage which is the destination. A small tractor like this could drive right into the garage.
I handled the assembly of a pretty big sander by myself by laying the sander on its side, attaching the base, then tilting the combined sander and base back upright.
Good luck.
Stephen Gaal
Stephen J. Gaal
Thanks for the reply. I guess this is the price we pay to get stable machines.
I wouldn't bother with fancy solutions like a tractor or an engine hoist unless you live way out in the country and can't bribe 3 neighbors for 10 minutes of work. That's what I did with my DJ-20, and it was really pretty easy. 100 lbs. sounds like a lot, and it is if you have to hold it for 30 minutes or lift it over your head, but the average male can fairly easily dead-lift 200 lbs, particularly for only about 20 seconds until you get it onto the top and align the holes.
Bought one of those myself awhile ago. UPS freight dropped it off the lift gate onto my dolly. I rope dragged it up my driveway, which is pretty steep. I bought a harbor freight 1 ton chain hoist for 29 bucks. Put a bolt through a beam, but a joist will work fine. Lifted it up and set it down and could adjust it to put the bolts. When I was done I didn't have to buy beer for all my neighbor buddies who seem to want something made for themselves also.
Works great to off load other heavy stuff also, misc logs I collect.
I have pics of the process if you need.
AZMO
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
Thanks for the reply. I'm looking for a beam in the garage that will support the weight.
I pass this on, not because it's of value to you, but just because I'm so darn proud......
My planer was delivered to my garage a few winters ago. Unfortunately, my shop is in the basement. The planer sat there as I deliberated what to do. Some weeks later we had significant snowfall. I transported snow in a wheelbarrow into the garage and placed by toboggan on the snow. Using a floor jack, I raised the jointer onto 2 x 4's until I could get the toboggan under it, then lowered the planer onto the toboggan and strapped it on. I then slid the whole shootin' match through the snow to the basement walkout. There's a hill at the end, so I wrapped a rope around a tree to have a controlled descent. Next, I wheelbarrowed snow into the basement so I could get the rig in there. A block and tackle attached to a 2 X4 bridging several joists did the rest. Since I couldn't get anywhere because of the snow, I spent the day setting up the planer.
I used 4 foot sections of pipe to roll my grizzly 8" jointer in place. The crates are huge. Once close to where you are going to assemble the tool some help lifting the jointer onto the base might be needed. The jointer is heavy but the crates they ship in are about 1/3 the shipping weight.
It worked for the pyramids didn't it. I've thought about pipe too. I may have a strong enough beam to support the weight.
Great solution! Is inovation alive and well in the good old USA or what.......
Lifting heavy machinery is rarely as difficult as people make it seem. I'm pushing 70, and I just moved a 400+ lb tablesaw onto a mobile base alone without much effort. The packing stand was a couple of inches taller than the base. I placed two long planks on the base, slid the saw onto the planks until it was properly centred, then tipped the saw to one side then the other to remove the planks. It's perfectly safe as long as the mobile base is firmly anchored. (The dealer delivered the 500+ package on a Ford 150. The driver hooked an appliance dolly upside down on his bumper, and we slid it straight down onto my garage floor.)
I assembled my jointer alone without hoists also, but that was a few years ago, and I forget the details. You can lift the bed to the required height (which isn't that high) in stages on blocks, lifting one end at a time for leverage. You're never lifting anything close to the full weight. When you're high enough you swivel one end on to the base, then the other. If there's a danger of damaging the machine, you can place a piece of wood on top of the base at each end, and remove them one by one.
I've never damaged myself or a machine doing this.
Jim
Jim,
Ahhhhh yes, work smart not hard, eh.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Well, since this thread seems open to very creative ideas (I love the snow/toboggan approach!), click here to see how to raise a heavy tool using Bessey K-type clamps, high enough to get a mobile base under it. Might be adaptable for some higher? One of my favorite posts of all time.
That is just SO awesome, Forestgirl!
You ROCK girl!
Mike D
If you lift the jointer by the beds (the most logical, and easiest place to grab it), make certain that the beds are raised to their highest position and locked firmly in place.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Thanks for the advise.
Have you wife do it. All joking aside it it can ruin your back forever, I know that for a fact. Get at least two other strong persons to help. You probably have it done by now anyway.
I through a chain around the steel beam in the basement for my lath and lifted it in place with a come along.
Just put the base next to the delivery vehicle and then get the driver to lower the top in position. Only move the lightest bits.
Next get your wife anchored to the inside of the garage and use a "come-along and chain" to winch the jointer into position, putting down ply or whatever to slide the base.
There is no danger here, I find that once a wife has taken a stance on any matter it is pretty impossible to shift her, no matter the persuasion.
mufti,
I find that once a wife has taken a stance on any matter it is pretty impossible to shift her, no matter the persuasion.
Did you hear me laugh on that one!?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Wife, anchor, that's not like ball and chain is it?
Mufti,
Hey at least you got her (or him in FG's case) to budge enough to buy a machine..... After that, however you get it set up, you got it made!
Now I like Sarges method, get approval to buy a new machine that cost 2150 and then spend 800 on it and look like a Hero. Then again, maybe he didn't tell about the difference and is out buying....?
AZMO
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
Edited 7/8/2008 5:56 pm by AZMO
Good one!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
now thats funny...
My saw is about 600#. When I put a base under it, I lifted one side of the saw while my secretary slide the base under it. Then I set the brakes on the base and lifted the other side and slid the saw into place. My jointer was about 700# and I was lucky enough to have four men here building the shop. I got two spud bars to tie to the lifting bars on the jointer on each end of the jointer and the men lifted it off the pickup and into the shop. One casualty. At that time I had an employee who got a mashed finger out of the deal. I just watched it go in. My planer weighed in a 844#. I flagged my neighbor who has a big tractor with a bucket on the front. My problem is/was that I had just paved the driveway and to this day still have those bar tire marks in the paving. The problem then was to get it off the pallet. I almost lost it when I just caught it just tetering.
Recently got a PM 8" jointer, about the same weight as the Grizzly. My shop is in a 2.5 car garage that had an additional living space added above. Consequently, there is a large supporting beam running across the entire area. I got 4 4" lag bolts, and bolted 2 8" pieces of angle iron to this beam, using 2 bolts each. I then attached an "S" hook through a hole in the center of each piece of angle iron. I had the delivery guy put the crate with the top of the jointer on a flat "mover's dolly" I built some time ago. Fortunately, the top was right-side-up in the crate. I looped a 10' length of chain around each wing of the top, near the center, with carpet under the chains to protect the paint. I wheeled the dolly w/top under the angle iron, then alternately lifted each side of the jointer top in the air, while my wife progressively hooked the chain to the "S" hooks, further and further down, each time I lifted it, thereby raising the jointer one side at a time, until it was high enough to roll the base underneath. I then reversed the process & lowered the top onto the base. Lifting each end one at a time was surprisingly easy, the whole thing took about 10 minutes. You probably don't have such a large beam in your work area, but you could probably do the same by spanning a couple appropriate joists with multiple 2x4's, angle iron, or the like.
Not withstanding the cleverness of some of these solutions (the Bessey clamp thing was really ingenious), all of these methods seem like an awful lot of work.
Whatever happened to asking a couple of neighbors? Beer's cheap....
Agreed, except for a 6" jointer everything in the woodshop was lugged up to the 2nd floor in parts, then assembled mesef.
Jointer took two rugged guys and a 6-pack.
Regards, Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
All my friends and neighbors have back histories that preclude such activities. Would that I had a teenage son who plays football or is on the wrestling team!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have you there FG. The boys eat a lot when growing up. I bought my 8" jointer and my neighbor and I got it into the basement. That hurt and was probably dangerous. When it came time to move it out to the shop the 2 of our boys were over for Thanksgiving dinner. I asked them if they would help me move the jointer out to the shop. First they took turns seeing who could dead lift the bed the highest, had a good laugh, then walked it upstairs, into the shop. Asked if that was it, went back into the house to make sure the left overs were minimized. They are both pressure welder working pipelines so they are use to moving some pretty substantial pieces of steel into place every day, for long days.Don
Yep, Don, you've got it good there!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I've got a beam spanning my 2 car garage/shop. Its been boxed in sheet rock. Tonight I'm going to penetrate the rock and find out just what the beam is like. Did you have any concerns about weakening the beam by drilling into it?
Depends on the beam. If is is dimensional lumber, the strength would depend upon the width and thickness. If the beam is spanning your garage bay, you may also not be supported near the midpoint, where your hoist might be attached.You can drill near the center of a beam (if it is >6" in actual width), but this will reduce the bearing load the beam can carry. This approach is more appropriate for running plumbing or wiring, not lifting loads- even here, sistering would be a good idea.An alternative would be to remove the sheet rock near where you plan to lift, place towing chain over the beam (without drilling), and brace on either side with double 2x4s. You can work out the details by checking the tensile strength of your beam (by dimension and wood type), and the compression load permitted for the 2x4s from the U.S. Forest Service Wood as an Engineering Material Handbook, available online.If this is too much of a project, consider renting a hoist and frame.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Montana - Your shop sounds a lot like mine then. The beam in mine is also encased in drywall, about 13 x 8 w/the sheetrock, I cut into it to be sure it wasn't a steel beam. Basically it's a laminated beam about 12" x 6" in total. Assuming yours is similar, I don't think using it as I did would be a problem or cause any weakness at all. And you don't need huge 1" diameter x 10" long bolts, chain made for hauling freight cars, or anything of the kind. 400 lbs seems like a lot to your back, but steel and wood are quite strong. The lag bolts I used are 5/16" diameter, penetrate the beam about 4", and I suspended each end of the jointer with what is basically the kind of twisted link chain you'd see on a swingset. Again, I used 2 pieces of perforated angle iron, 2 bolts in each, with an "S" hook in the middle, so each bolt is supporting ~100lbs. The "S" hooks are about 3' apart. If you have a suitable beam, it's very easy, cheap, fast & straightforward. Dan
Edited 7/9/2008 4:16 pm ET by DanMitch
Dude - I'm seriously hoping your post was tongue-in-cheek. Ripping out drywall to attach a hoist in a garage is more than absurd, it's worthy of Comedy Central.
Unless, of course, you plan on rebuilding engines (and if you did plan on that, a hoist attached to a single point is not what you need - you need a roll around engine hoist).
Doing major renovations to install an expensive item so that you can use it once or twice to install a machine is way, way over the top. And in a garage no less!! (that presumably has the concrete floor and the large roll-up door that defines "garage").
Montanaman,
Some pics of using the 6 x 12 gluelam beam in my shop. Also livable space overhead. I used chains and no pads. Did not scratch the paint either, lucky there I guess. Getting it level took side to side took a couple of trys. Easy as can be, if I buy more heavy stuff it is simple to load a truck also. Nice thing is the new style garage lift, no motor and chain in the middle of my shop.
My neighbors also are older and have bad backs, gotta go aways to get some young uns. So beer doesn't help, advil is not needed.
Good luck
AZMO <!----><!----><!---->
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This is the ultimate "back protector". The 92 degree heat kept me from checking out my beam last night. If that doesn't work I'll rent an engine hoist. I had to have a real attack of sciatica before I developed respect for my back. I won't soon forget.
Ouch, I have had that before, nothing 2 months of Physical Therepy could not fix. It sure was uncomfortable while I had it. Yep, it is hot here, my garage is 106, but it is in the shade.... ;>)
Harbour freight and 29 bucks gets you a chainhoist to keep.
AZMO <!----><!----><!---->
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---------_'-,>
-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
I suggest renting an engine hoist from the local rental place. When I got my 8" jointer from Grizzly we used a small lifting platform that was bought at Costco. You can lift 500lbs with a hydraulic operated foot pedal. Wheeled it to the base and slid it on.
Cheers,
Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Did you use the lifting platform instead of the engine hoist?
Lifting platform. And I use it quite a bit for other things.
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Montanaman,
Great thread. Very useful.
When I first saw the title of the thread, I misread it.
I thought it said, "how to move a 400 lb. joiner". I was figuring that you had a large woodworker who couldn't get around easily. Glad to realize that wasn't the case.
:-)
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Terrific thread! Very timely.
My dealer just got my Steel City 8" Industrial Jointer and I was looking for the exact same info. Let's see how it goes.
Thanks again and hope it worked out for you.
LB
Hi,
I just got my 8" grizzly jointer last week and me and one other person lifted the top right up and laid it on the base - no big deal (bend your knees and use rags to grip because it is mighty greasy- that's all).
I haven't run it - need the outlet and plug still.
Late post but.. If you can have some dinner or whatever appropriate for the friends after..
Have two friends to help you! However skilled.... Just tell them up-front.. If I get something dropped on me it's your money for food and drinks!
Call me legally paranoid. The last time I had a friendly contractor do any work for me he sawed into his thigh with his circular saw. Total disaster was averted when the blade stopped at the chap stick in his pocket! That was less than two hours after he signed a hold harmless agreement if he injured himself on the job.
I hear you and then some.. OK I said it..
USA courts are NOT for the little guy that did nothing wrong!
ONLY for the BIG jerk that was stupid and wanted to blame somebody for His/Her stupidity!
Dear Montana,
If you don't have any anti-gravitation pads, I would suggest that an engine hoist , as others have mentioned would more than do the job.
Best,
John
John,
Anti-gravitational pads? What's wrong with the good 'ol sky hook?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Dear Chris,
Sky-hooks are old school, anti-grav pads are better and easier to store. You can just stack them up really anywhere and they are easy to use as they don't require any additional hardware like a sky hook. No block & tackle, etc. Just toss one under the piece to be raised and you are in business. The only real draw back is they do contribute to Global Warming, or climate change or whatever the hoax is called this week. But then again, I think that Sky Hooks used to damage the ozone layer and that is why you don't really see them any more. Some of the fellow Knot Heads over in hand tools may still use them, but with the new lithium ion technology, the anti grav pads are becoming more popular. One thing that I can't seem to find any more are boxes of steam. They used to be packaged under the trade name "Steem". I think that the boxes were blue and you could even get buckets sometimes like the kind that Ivory Snow came in. I'll have to look again.Best,John
Several years ago I bought a scissor table from Harbor Freight for $100. It's on castors. I use it to lift and move everything. When a new and heavy lathe arrived I pulled the lathe bed off the delivery truck onto the table. I was able to easily move the bed to the desired location, jack it up to the correct height for the lags and bolt them on. Then I released the scissors and pulled the table out from under. Perhaps it will work for you. Good luck.
I usually work by myself (no "helpers" readily available) so I bought an engine hoist from Checkers auto parts store. So far, I used it to move a Japanese stone lantern, 13" delta thickness planer, and a 25" woodmaster molder/planer by myself. One of the better tool purchases I've made. Also, installed a 780 lb. hydraulic bed onto my 3/4 T. pickup.
I was facing a similar predicament last fall. In my case, a Wadkins-Burgreen 1955 9 inch jointer. Lots of cast parts weighing a total of 600 lbs. I had no choice but to dissasemble it , transport it to my shop in 2-3 trips, bring it down to a lower level of thes shop down stairs, and put it all back together. I learned a great deal about how it was put together in the process. The kind of things you don't do very often!
Norman
Working by myself forces me to spend more time thinking how I'm going to do the work rather than just "horsing" the process through. I renovated my entire house just by myself.
Would be easy with four guys, three minimum. The jointer is the one and only tool that I asked for help from a neighbor for unloading (mine is PM 54A, lighter than yours, I guess), because of the sheer cumbersomeness of the tool. My bandsaw is heavier but I was crated and I tipped it out of the truck and through the door myself. Anyway my jointer was easy with two guys, I'll just say try not to carry it from the very ends of the tables. One or two guys in the middle would also help take the wieght off the tables.
Brian
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