Replies

1. 
   AB | Nov 20, 2006 04:41am | #1

   Black enamel lots of coats.

1. 
   dgreen | Nov 20, 2006 04:49am | #2

   I always thought japanning was done with lacquer?------------------------------------

    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer (1891)

1. 
   AB | Nov 21, 2006 03:28am | #6

   If you are talking furniture yes. Planes no. My 1929 Millers Falls catalog refers to planes japanned with "black enamel".Try stripping one to bare metal and laying down several coats of enamel. You wont be able to tell the difference.

2. 
   jazzdogg | Nov 20, 2006 05:45am | #3

   I found an article describing the process at:

   http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/handtools/articles_117.shtml

    

   -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

   
   

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   Edited 11/19/2006 9:49 pm by jazzdogg

1. 
   Irish95 | Nov 20, 2006 11:20pm | #4

   For what it's worth, I've recently been cleaning up several hammers my grandfather left me and Rust-oleum's new "Hammered" spray paint looks very similar to the pictures from the link Jazzgod posted.

   I found this article about a year ago and have ordered the ingredients to do my own jappanning on several planes I picked up over the years.  (Yes, their original jappaning is long gone.)  Good luck, we'd appreciate any photo's of the results.

    

   Thanks,

   Craig

3. 
   JeffHeath | Nov 20, 2006 11:53pm | #5

   Japanning is done with a product called asphaltium.  A former contributor named Mike_in_Katy used to restore planes, but I believe he closed up shop.  Perhaps a search here, and an email might get you a source for this product.

   Jeff

4. 
   Pippins | Nov 21, 2006 05:11am | #7

   rbarlow, Jim Kingshott describes the process in his book Making and Modifying Woodworking Tools.

   Steve Pippins 

1. 
   rbarlow | Nov 21, 2006 07:11am | #9

   thank you everyone for your post I am slowly building my hand tool collection and have been buying old beat up planes just about anywhere I can find them.  I take them completely apart flatten the soles, sand and lacquer the knob's and totes file the mouth's, and yada yada yada.  What I have been doing by way of paint is using enamel wether it be blue, black, red, yellow (what ever I feel like that day) and then baking them in the oven for about an hour don't know if it does any thing but the enamel seems to get real hard after it cools down.  I have'nt't had a problem with chipping yet so I just was wondering how close I was to the real thing.  All info greatly appreciated.

5. 
   alanplanesaw | Nov 21, 2006 07:03am | #8

   rbarlow,

   Having "restored" a few Stanley planes I have learned a few things.  Number one, like everything else, it all depends on who you ask -- me included.

   There are almost as many different formulas for japanning, aka asphaltum or pontypool as there are people who will give you an answer.

   Mike Taylor (Mike_N_Katy as someone referred to him) is/was probably one of the best plane restorers but he has retired from that.  He was already retired (from IBM as I recall)  Mike is building a new place in a different state than where he has been living and is focused on that.  I talked/emailed with Mike a couple months ago and he is enjoying working on his new place. 

   Couple suggestions from my point of view.

   One, before you go to all the work of japanning a plane consider why you are doing it.  Chances are you won't make it anymore valuable from a collectors standpoint.  I started out wanting to re-japann all my old planes.  5 down and toomanyhundred to go.  Once I realized how much work I was doing and was really gaining nothing, I quit that and simply paint them.

   One paint that is tough and looks much the same is Rust-oleum-Specialty-Appliance Epoxy-Ultra-hard Enamel.  It is probably glossy, but use that as a base with several thin layers.  Then, go back over with a satin black.

   But, you can also order "Old Pontypool" another name for japanning from T. M. Glenco, Athens, NY  518-945-2301.

   If you are like me (and most probably aren't) you gotta be hard-headed and do a couple before you realize you gotta decide -- do you want to spend a lot of ON tools or using tools. 

   Enjoy.  It is a great way to learn -- and to stay out of trouble.

   Alan - planesaw

    

   
   

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   Edited 11/20/2006 11:31 pm ET by Planesaw

1. 
   rbarlow | Nov 21, 2006 07:27am | #10

   thank you for your advice I know it would likely hurt the value of collectors planes, but I am not a collector.  I buy and fix them up and resell them to ppl like me.  When I first got into hand tools I wanted decent tools to use that were ready to go and not cost a fortune so I buy pieces of crap and fix them and sell them for a little more than what I paid the extra money goes toward the next plane I want for myself.  The new owner gets a plane that works good and I get a plane that I don't own.  Most of all the tuning happens on my down time at work when the job is running good and I have spare time, can't do actual woodworking there but can get these planes fixed up.  Also I came to realize I like nice tools so if I can't afford new I make them look like they are new.  I do own some new planes some LV's and one LN, and would someday like to switch every old one for a new one, but have to take baby steps for now.  It's a lot harder to get the wife to agree to $400.00 rather than $40.00 know what I mean?  anyway thank you very much for your post I learn so much from this forum.   Best regard RBarlow

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Nov 21, 2006 07:37am | #11

   rbarlow,

   Not sure if you are painting them different colors, but black is the only thing for a Stanley.

   What you are doing (rebuilding to look-good user-quality) and then selling them for profit makes good sense.  In that case I would use the RustOLeum (or I would also try the "hammer" paint someone talked about) and just paint the planes.

   I doubt that Stanley would japann the planes like the old days if they were making them today. 

   You will have a great looking plane in less time.  Be sure and not file the mouth too much.  None if you can avoid it.  Don't want to open it up any wider.

   Well, good luck and enjoy,

   Alan - planesaw

1. 
   rbarlow | Nov 22, 2006 08:05am | #12

   Thank you for your reply I only file the mouth when absolutely necessary to make it parallel Most of the time I enamel them different colors so no one thinks I am trying to pass them off as original jappan black  I have bought planes through eBay that stated jappening 98% and when I receive it, the planes has obviously been painted most of the time with spray paint.  I do not want to deceive anyone.  Before I started doing this, I just wanted a decent quality plane that did not need a tone of work to use, and also not cost me an arm and a leg.  What I found is the ones in good shape go for big bucks the ones that are rusted and beat up go for a lot cheaper.  So that is why I started doing what I am doing.  The planes I tune up are usable as soon as the person gets it, and they don't sell for what they would if they were all original.  I think I will Google the A word someone mentioned and see what's involved in it, or I will just keep using the industrial enamel we have here at work and baking it.  again thanks for the replies   rb

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Nov 22, 2006 02:36pm | #13

   Sounds like you have things well in hand, are asking the right questions, and wanting to do the right thing.

   Last suggestion:  I fully understand what you are saying about descriptions on ebay.  However, if I am going to buy a plane, even if it is far from a collectible, I wouldn't want a green one, or red one, etc.  Just state in your description on ebay something like you have restored it to user status, it has been sharpened and honed, cleaned, and that you have applied a high quality heat resistant paint. 

   I have bought a few that way.  They looked like a Stanley, and they were ready to go.  As long as you tell people what you have done, you aren't hiding anything.  As I said, I have bought items that weren't fully disclosed.  And, I knew from the way they described things they knew what the truth was.

   Well, I can only imagine you are going to suceed in your endeavors.  Happy Thanksgiving.

   Alan - planesaw

2. 
   JohnWW | Nov 22, 2006 06:55pm | #14

   I answered a question about japanning a plane a few months back in the expert's section of this site, here is what I wrote:

    

   "The true "Japan" finish refers to black lacquer ware that became popular when Japan was opened to international trade after Commodore Perry negotiated a trade agreement with Japan in 1854. 

   Cashing in on the popularity of the glossy black look, numerous finishes were developed in the U.S. to mimic it.  So, first of all, there is no one true Japan finish when it comes to American made goods.  In fact, it appears that after awhile the term came to mean a hard glossy finish in any color, not just black.

   The following is a recipe for a version of the finish I found in "Henley's Twentieth Century Home and Workshop Formulas, Recipes, & Processes" from the early 1900's:

   "Japan Black.- The following is a good japan black for metal surfaces: Take 12 ounces of amber and 2 ounces of asphaltum.  Fuse by heat, and add 1/2 pint of boiled oil and 2 ounces of rosin.  When cooling add 16 ounces of oil of turpentine."  There are no instructions for its use.

   Basically, a "Japan" finish is what we would today call a glossy black enamel.  If you want to refinish a plane, strip off the old finish with paint remover and use a primer and then black engine enamel to repaint it.  Engine enamels, in spray cans, are available in auto supply stores and they are tough, oil resistant, and formulated to go over cast iron.  If you are going to do any mechanical repairs on the plane, and/or true up the sole, I would do all of that first, then disassemble and strip the tool for repainting.

   Before painting, carefully mask off all surfaces, including the top edge of the body, with masking tape.  Usually two coats of black enamel over the primer will hide most of the roughness of the casting, but a third coat might be needed.  Strip off the masking tape an hour or so after the final coat, before the paint fully hardens, which would make the tape harder to remove.  Once the tape is off, be patient and let the paint fully harden for a week or two before reassembling the plane. 

   Any paint that creeped under the tape is best removed with a sharp razor blade.  If the primer, which is often gray, shows as a thin line along the edges of the finish, the gray can be hidden by going over the edge with the tip of a black marker.  

   For cleaning without repainting, try removing any dirt first with a water based cleaner, like Simple Green sprayed on a towel, and then naphtha or paint thinner.  If you have some spots that the water or naphtha don't clean up, try alcohol.  I've never seen a finish on a tool that was damaged by either naphtha or alcohol, but you might want to test each solvent on a small spot before wiping down the whole tool.  Don't use lacquer thinner or methyl ethyl ketone for cleaning, they will damage many old finishes. 

   If you want to brighten the old finish up after cleaning, wax it with furniture wax which can also be used on the bare iron surfaces to help deter rusting.  Areas of the finish that are dulled can sometimes be restored to a gloss by using auto polish, but stay away from any auto finishing material that contains silicone, since the silicone, even in minute quantities, will cause problems later in the shop with the finishing of both wood and metal. 

   If the plane has historic value, or is valuable to collectors, the best advice is usually to do nothing to the tool, the dirt and wear being a "patina" that can add considerably to the plane's value."

   John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine 

3. 
   rbarlow | Nov 24, 2006 05:32am | #18

   thank you john I will try this technique on a couple of the ones I plan to keep for myself  rb

4. 
   Samson | Nov 22, 2006 07:13pm | #15

   Alan, I'm amused by your aversion to any color other than black for the finish on planes.  Does this mean you find Record Blue, or Kunz Green, or some of those Miller's Falls red etc. untenable?  I'm guessing so, but am intrigued as to why.  Do you just think planes look classier in black? tradition?  you associate colors other than black with inferior quality? 

   FWIW I can imagine instances where if you had to refinish a plane anyway you might want to make it a color so as to distinguish it from others similar planes in the shop.  For example, what if you had two smoothers set up with differnt blade grinds (e.g., back bevel to achieve 50 degrees) or two jacks, one with a pronounced curved bevel and open mouth for hogging, etc.?  It might be helpful to have a stark contrast. 

   I have a 5 I cleaned-up at the start of my planing days a decade ago and after removing the little remaining jappaning painted it with high quality green enamel.  While it does not look "classic," it is far from ugly IMO.  

5. 
   alanplanesaw | Nov 22, 2006 11:02pm | #16

   Samson,

   I fully understand your point about other brands and their colors.  But we were talking Stanley.  Typical Stanley is black, as you know.

   And, no I wouldn't paint my plane a different color because of the angle, bevel, grind, or anything else.  I might mark it in some way in some manner not permanent.

   My point to rbarlow was if I am going to buy a Stanley that is cleaned up and fixed up, I want it to look somewhat original.  Not some odd color.  Besides, everyone knows a black color plane is better than a red, green, or blue plane.  :-)  (please read as tongue in cheek.)

   Happy Thanksgiving,

   Alan - planesaw

6. 
   rbarlow | Nov 24, 2006 05:28am | #17

   thank you all verymuch for your post's I guess I will just stick to black.  I have been using a high quality industrial oil based enamel (this paint is actually used on battle ships and in industrial applications) so that is what I will continue to do I painted different colors just as a personl pref when I open my drawer I know red is 4c and blue is 4 etc.  also I figured if someone saw a bailey forsale that wasn't black instead was red and very clean they would automatically know that this plane was not original (but you know what they say about assuming)  thank you everyone who contributed,  I think I will just continue to do as I was with glossy black paint (it's free) also this isn't really a business for me it's just a little hobby to help me get the planes that I don't have, and to give someone knew a chance to own a cheap plane that works as it should.  To date I have only resold 4 of the ones I refinished most of the time I don't want to part with it after it's all tuned up!    let the wood shaving fly ppl  I have to get back to work  (swing shift) sucks!