I’m making kitchen cabinets of Ozark cherry and the wife has found a deep burgandy color she likes. My oil based stains don’t seem to make a deep enough color. I flood the surface, let it dry, then wipe it down. The cherry is real tight grain and after wiping the surface the color is not dark enough. I have been doing the final sanding with 220 grit paper.
I want the deep burgandy tint and I want the grain to show through. How do I do that?
Cabinets will be finished with lacquer. Which brings up another question about finishing. After staining, can I rub the cabinets down with an oil ( to get the deep luster), then topcoat with lacquer? How about wiping on a thinned varnish then overcoating with shellac before applying the lacquer?
I have finshed cabinets with poly but just don’t like it’s harsh appearence, even after buffing with steel wool and polishing. The only problem with lacquer is that with age and years of keeping the cabinets clean it tends to soften and wear off.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks, “Planewood by Mike_in_Katy” [email protected]
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
Replies
I'm sorry that you want a deep stain on cherry, it's such a nice wood left natural to darken over time. That gives a rich and subtle coloring that gets destroyed with heavy coloration.
If you want to get a really dark color on cherry you could use a water soluble aniline dye powder. The depth of color can be varied by changing the concentration of the dye mix. Dye obscures grain far less than dark pigmented stain.
Have you made the cabinets yet? If you haven't cut wood, then you might as well use soft maple and save a lot of money since you won't be seeing the cherry color under the dye. There is another advantage to the maple in that it won't darken over time so your cabinets will stay more of the original color.
You can get more durability than the lacquer and still have an attractive look if you try a non-poly varnish, such as Waterlox which can be used as a wiping varnish. It comes in a Satin sheen version.
Cost of the Cherry is not an issue. I cut down and quarter slabbed a tree about 4 years ago. It's been curing in my shed since then. I want the darkening with time. The cabinets are for my wife and she picked out the color. Thanks for replying.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
I would use the dye suggestion from a few of the replies above. My biggest concern is that if you don't dye all of the cabinets from the same batch of dye you will have to make sure that you record the actual recipe that you use.
I have created problems for myself by making a batch that wasn't perfect, adding some additional color, ending up with something I love, but having to experiment to get the next boxes to match exactly.
Have fun...
I with Steve on this one, the cherry is too nice of a wood to be stained or dyed a real dark color. As far as the finishing goes I have used wipe on poly by Minwax and it looks a lot better that the brush on poly from Minwax.
Just my opinion.
Greg
Plane,
What Steve said. A brown mahogany type color works for me. My only disagreement is the contention that cherry is somehow sacrosanct and should not be stained. I think it is a great candidate for stain. But then I like its blotchiness too, that others complain about- I call it "figure".
Ray
"But then I like its blotchiness too, that others complain about- I call it "figure"."
Hear, Hear!
Personally, I prefer cherry with only oil and garnet shellac. Darkens nicely all by itself over a period of several months.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
My only disagreement is the contention that cherry is somehow sacrosanct and should not be stained. I think it is a great candidate for stain.
AMEN! Finally an answer other than the standard " I don't like cherry stained so you shouldn't stain it."
Funny how when someone asks how to do something people try to talk him into doing something completely different.
Now, I like my cherry with little or no stain (maybe a little artificial aging to speed up the natural process) but I'll be damned if I will talk someone out of staining it if they so choose.
I also agree with the aniline dye suggestion. Thin it pretty good and do a few test runs. I used Solar Lux Medium Brown Mahogany under General Finishes Georgian Cherry Gel Stain on a set of cabinets and it looked very rich and elegant. I didn't post pictures here because I did not want to be stoned and crucified.
I would also skip the oil/shellac ideas and go straight for the pre-cat laquer. Sherwin Williams has this in 5 different sheens so you won't have that harsh gloss like you get from the poly. And it is plenty tough enough for cabinets - haven't had any "softening" problems you mentioned with it either.
Good luck,
Lee
The objection to staining cherry isn't really aesthetic, it is mostly economic. Why use an expensive wood, when the exact same effect, perhaps less a couple of pitch pockets, can be achieved as easily with a cheaper wood. It's cherry's color and photosensitivity that creates the premium price for it--but if you are going to stain it a dark burgundy color you are spending money on properties that won't be seen.
Steve,
The objection to staining cherry isn't really aesthetic, it is mostly economic.
I believe your reply was meant in this manner, trying to save the OP some money. However, as Ray said, most people tend to act like it is some sort of hideous act to put stain on cherry - any stain, even a light one. If someone posts a question on how to or what to use to stain cherry, then I don't understand why someone would go on and on about how you should not stain cherry because it is too beautiful, etc, etc. It's not just here at knots - I see the same thing on every single woodworking forum.
Why use an expensive wood, when the exact same effect, perhaps less a couple of pitch pockets, can be achieved as easily with a cheaper wood.
I disagree, depending on how dark you go. I have yet to see anyone replicate the beautiful grain in cherry with maple, alder, poplar, birch, etc. Close, but no cigar. Now, if we are talking about so dark that you can't even tell if there's wood underneath the finish, then yes, by all means go with a cheaper wood.
Lee
Edited 10/25/2008 8:30 pm by mapleman
Well said, Lee.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks all! Not doing planes handles or restoration any more. Business was to successful! I started developing heel spurs and back problems from all the standing time so decided to call it quits. Was spending 12 hrs per day at it and I just got burned out. Took me two months to catch up with the orders after I had stopped taking more. Have sold all my rosewood and given most of those tools to my son.
I found a perfect match for the wife's color. I took a tube of Burnt Umber oil paint and mixed some with lacquer thinner. Brushed it on and let it thoroughly dry then buffed the residue off. Did this twice. Nice dark cinnamon spice color. The lacquer thinner carries the pigments deeper into the wood.
I've decided on a dewaxed shellac sealer and Deft brand brushing lacquer for the finish. Except I spray it on. I have lots of experience with that. By the time the finish starts wearing I doubt we will still be here.
You Cherry lovers should see the Cherry bedroom suit I made. I painted it with black oil based asphaltum paint then wiped it off before it dried. Finished it using the above and it turned out to be my best work yet. The grain of the Cherry shows through in an allmost irredescent manner after 6 coats of lacquer. From a distance it looks almost black or a real dark brown. Up close the grain becomes visible.
I mentioned in an above note that the Cherry had come off my own land and I slabbed it out myself.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
You Cherry lovers should see the Cherry bedroom suit I made. I painted it with black oil based asphaltum paint then wiped it off before it dried. Finished it using the above and it turned out to be my best work yet. The grain of the Cherry shows through in an allmost irredescent manner after 6 coats of lacquer. From a distance it looks almost black or a real dark brown. Up close the grain becomes visible.
OH MAN! You may as well have slapped the Pope with that statement!
Seriously, it sounds quite nice. I may have to give that a try sometime. Best of luck with your project, and let's see some pictures when you're done.
Lee
I sure hope we get to see some pictures (and you're right, get that finish on quickly, before she changes her mind!). Hope you stop by occasionally. Now that you're not slaving away over those plane handles, you can do some stuff for fun.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Just another country heard from here about putting dark stain on any wood used in a kitchen...
I once lived in a house that had black plastic laminate countertops. And although I was a bachelor at the time, I was a neat bachelor (and still am a - relatively - neat husband). Still, an hour after I had cleaned the kitchen and wiped down the countertops, dust motes would start making it look as though I hadn't done any housekeeping in a month.
Ditto with the dark wood cabinets in that house. Every water spot or fleck of flying food would show up as - well, filth. It was difficult to keep things from looking like a pigsty. And these were cabinets made of oak. My suspicion is that a smoother-surface wood, like cherry or maple, stained dark, would not exhibit the minor fleck-concealing qualities inherent in the larger-pored oak.
So, although dark kitchen cabinets can look great, be prepared to work a little harder to keep them looking clean. And a chip or wear along an edge will reveal a lighter shade underneath the damage...
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Been a while Mike. Good to see you back online. Still rebuilding planes or just enjoying life? Jimmy
Plane, good to "see" you again! Given the resistance you're meeting here, might I suggest you cruise over to Jeff Jewitt's site Homestead Finishing and query him about a dye process. He's good about responding to questions in his forum, and you can get the dye you need there. I've only done the dye thing once, to even out some walnut, but it was a rewarding experience, and quite simple.
I guess I forget to mentioned that the wife changed her mind to the cinnamon spice! I think i need to hurry up and get the color on!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
You probably already have more information than you want, but I would stain the cherry with M. L. Campbell's Woodsong cherry stain. It has a really good dark cherry color. I usually spray it on, let it set a few minutes and then wipe it lightly with lacquer thinner.
Their top coats are also really good. I'd recommend their satin MagnaLac. Its easy to spray and is very durable. (Check out M.L. Campbell's site for more info.) I don't work for them but after finishing furniture for over thirty years I haven't found anything better!
furndr
Try sanding to 150 for color penetration. The finer you sand the less penetration. do test piece. I use tints to even the color of a piece that I know will be uneven and that the customer may question. I use the least amount of tint to even the color. I use all oil based finishes.
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