Replies

1. 
   doorboy | May 26, 2009 07:43pm | #1

   I have always used a 1/4" protrusion with chamfered edges. The Arts and Crafters usually pinned that also.
   Good luck.
1. 
   Woodk | May 26, 2009 08:58pm | #2

   thanks Door.  Yes, the tenons will be beveled/chamfered.  1/4" was my gut instinct too...thanks for clarifying. 

    

2. 
   Eef | May 27, 2009 01:05am | #3

   wood,

   1/4" has worked for me as well.  seems to look best.

   about 20 years ago i knew a man named tom gardner who made greene bros. and stickley reproductions.  there's alot of original furniture in these parts, made by those guys, and tom was often asked to repair various pieces.  once when visiting his shop he showed me a signed stickley footstool in need of some fixing. as is often the case when repairing furniture, a certain amount of dis-assembly is needed to get at and properly fix it.  he showed me a chamfered "through" tenon that, was in fact, applied on the surface.

   eef

   
   

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   Edited 5/26/2009 6:06 pm ET by Eef

1. 
   Woodk | May 27, 2009 05:48pm | #4

   thanks for the story. 

   Not surprising.  In my opinion and thru my 10+ years of building cabinets...through Tenons/mortises are one of the more time consuming/finicky things we do.  Mine typically out nice but not without alot of real concentrated effort. 

   But worth it in my opinion.  Right up there with dovetails in terms of craftsmanship. 

1. 
   Eef | May 27, 2009 07:48pm | #5

   "...not surprising..."

   yeah, maybe.  i think the stickley motto went something like, "integrity in joinery".  i will probably be resoundingly corrected for saying that, but, APPLIED tenons??

   eef

1. 
   Woodk | May 27, 2009 07:57pm | #6

   Eef, I only meant that I could certainly see a mass producer not doing through tenons due to the time it takes to fit them nicely...I guess if you were doing it every day, you could get your jigs setup to knock them out faster.  I only know that whenever I do them, I am messing w/ them for awhile to get them just right.  Even when using a Router to cut my mortises and a bearing guided bit...I still find myself fitting each one individually. 

   More than anything, it underlines my conclusion that it is pretty much impossible to make money at this unless you can command big, big dollars. 

2. 
   MikeHennessy | May 27, 2009 08:00pm | #7

   "he showed me a chamfered "through" tenon that, was in fact, applied on the surface."

   My understanding is that this was done when design/joint strength was required. For example, on some Morris chair designs, the front legs tenon through the arm. The "show" part of these tenons are typically applied, since the legs themselves are usually made up and not solid, and thus do not lend themselves to working the end into a tenon. Similarly, my understanding is that G&G furniture used applied elements, like faux splines on breadboard ends. I think this was done to keep the overall design of the piece consistent with the true visible joinery that was used elsewhere on the piece, and not to "fake" a joint.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.

1. 
   Eef | May 27, 2009 09:31pm | #8

   mike,

   that makes sense.  consistent design elements are very important.  it was, after all a mere footstool--with an applied tenon.  at the time,(20+years ago),  much of the ww world was new to me.  tom, the fellow who showed me the piece, was, (is, i hope...), a very accomplished ww'r.  his incredulity was enough to convince me that something was seriously awry.  do you know of, from your own or others experience, g&g or stickley works being repaired or disassembled? 

   eef

1. 
   MikeHennessy | May 27, 2009 10:19pm | #9

   I've never repaired an original, but I make a lot of A&C stuff, so I've done a lot of research.

   I was actually surprised to learn that a particular G&G sideboard that I was using as a design model had an ersatz spline -- I had figured a way to make it functional and conceal the seasonal movement of the top, but abandoned that scheme when I found the masters hadn't bothered.

   For example, many of the exposed "tenons" on this entertainment center, on the drawer pulls for example, are purely for show to contribute to the design.

   View Image

   While looking for info about the arm tenons on Morris chairs, I spotted the following in response to a request concerning the originality of a Young Morris chair:

   Hi,This is Michael Clark. My wife and I wrote the book on J M Young. From what I can tell from your picture everything appears to be ok on the chair for it to be a later four slat J M Young #186 morris chair. It does not appear to have a drop in spring cushion which most of the later ones have. That is not an absolute because the transitional ones did not. The fake through tenons are square and that looks correct. I would like to see the back so I would know if it had been replaced. J M Young's backs had steam bent slats that were horizontal down the back. I have seen some that have been replaced with the slats being straight. As noted above the corbels look correct. It should be pinned in the joints in the front for sure but I can not tell from the photo. So, it looks good from what I can tell from the photo. I have not idea what they go for these days.My best,Dr. Michael Clark

   There was probably a good structural reason not to use a through tenon on the footstool, but to avoid one would be visually out of keeping with other joints on the stool or other related pieces - so a "dummy" was used. While the A&C designers were big on the "authenticity" of visible joinery, they were not so stupid as to favor it above good craftsmanship. ;-)Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.

   
1. 
   Eef | May 28, 2009 01:16am | #10

   mike,

   thanks for the reply.  i am actually somewhat relieved with what you've researched and said.  i had not thought of the design needs being met this way, but, of course that would be the case.  somehow, i had simply filed the memory away and figured it to be a cost saving issue during the time of stickley.  i guess we in this "cheap it up and dummy it down" period of history could easily make such an assumption.

   i recall seeing your sideboard some time back in the gallery.  it is a very beautiful bit of work.

   eef