Hi Folks,
I don’t recall a discussion about how to match boards in a panel glue-up before in here. As Mr. Hoadley states in one of his articles (one of my all time favorites) there are many descriptions offered for grain. Grain patterns to me equate to the term figure, but that might be a whole new discussion.
Obviously the look that you’re after has a direct influence on the orientation of boards in a panel. Does placement of the panel also have a bearing, i.e. on the ends of a cabinet where the grain runs horizontal vs on the front where it typically runs vertical?
In the case of panels I have often seen it suggested that one use straight grained material for the stiles & rails and figured wood for the panel. If I wanted to reverse that are there potential problems that could arise?
One concern I have is with regard to grain direction in terms of planing/scraping/sanding when dealing with multiple boards for a panel. For example, when dealing with cathedral grain, should all the cathedrals point in the same direction?
What about a board that has swirling rings that appear to go in two directions? Is it simply a matter of asthetics?
I apologize for not posting some pics of boards that I want to use. I will do that tonight.
Looking forward to your responses,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 5/5/2008 7:33 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Replies
Oh well Bob. here's something to get you started. Slainte.
7.6 Built Up Laminations.
Making furniture throws up all sorts of interesting construction quandaries for the furniture maker. For instance the dimensional changes and distortions that are sometimes barely noticeable or important in a single piece of wood can lead to unsatisfactory results when two or more pieces of wood are joined. Solid wood panels made of several pieces occasionally develop ridges at the glue lines. There is more than one cause of this, one of which is glue ‘creep’*. Although creep can be the cause another significant explanation is mis-matched end grain patterns in the arrangement of the boards- see figure 32 on the next page.
* Creep. Some glues remain slightly elastic even after their full cure. Polyvinyl acetate (PVA) glue is one of the classic ‘creepers’. Under stress the glue line gives and parts move out of alignment. For example, bent wood laminations glued with PVA tend to straighten out long after their removal from the bending form. Where the bend is slight and the stress on the glue line also similarly small the springback and long term creeping is often insignificant. Severe bends where stress occurs in both the glue line and laminations themselves show greater tendency to ‘springback’ or straighten. Another form of creep involves moisture cycling, again with PVA glue. In this second version both the wood and the glue in a joint swell as they take on moisture. The wood later shrinks as it dries but the glue doesn’t and sits above the joint line. Where this happens to a solid wood glued up table top the result is a line of small pimples along the glue line that is just perceptible to the finger tips although, quite often, the pimples are also visible. I’ve occasionally seen the ‘row of pimples’ fault where rather wet planks, 13% MC or so, were edge joined to make a panel which later shrank as the wood adapted to internal house conditions by drying to roughly 8% MC. Glues that never really cure hard and always remain a little elastic allow a little movement in the joint. PVA glues, being water based and affected by humidity sometimes allow adjacent planks to shift a little as the seasons change.
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Figure 32, above. At 1 three boards make up a panel. From left to right the three boards are radially cut at left, a mixture of rift cut and radially cut in the centre board, and tangentially cut at right. At 2 arrows indicate the main direction of the end grain movement along with the resultant size and end sections of the individual boards. The sketch rather over-emphasises the movement and shrinkage but the indicated steps between each plank do occur. Sometimes the steps barely register to the touch; at others they are clearly visible.
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Figure 33, above. Radially cut planks arranged in different ways along with the end result caused by differential shrinkage. At top the heart of one plank joins the bark edge of the next resulting in steps at the joint line. Below, alternating heart-to-heart and bark side to bark side edges reduces or eliminates the steps.
7.7 Panel Glue Ups
At some point almost every woodworker faces the need to make up wide panels out of narrow timber. There are several good reasons for edge joining narrow boards to make wide slabs.
• The selected timber is only available in narrow planks.
• The machinery available can only cope with modest sizes, assuming of course that stock is prepared with machinery rather than hand tools.
• It may be that cutting wide pieces into smaller sections and rearranging the order uses the grain more attractively.
• Edge joining narrow planks sometimes provides a means for controlling, predicting, and to some extent reducing the effects of warping.
• Preparing a long and/or wide board to a specified thickness might be impossible, ie, getting a warped piece flat where both sides are parallel leaves the material too thin for the job.
How you should arrange the planks is often a subject for heated debate. I use all the layouts illustrated in figures, 39, 40 and 41, and it depends on the circumstance. For instance, the most attractive grain might all be on the heart side of tangentially cut boards, and if I’m making a table top I will use the material this way, ie, figure 40. For a table top arranged thus I usually incorporate a heavy slot screwed bearer on the underside. Similarly, if it’s a cabinet side that is housed across the grain (dadoed in the US) to accept a shelf or similar I often choose the same arrangement because then, at worst ,I only have a wide cupped piece to flatten prior to running over it with the router. This is often preferable to dealing with a series of ripples. I tend to use the layout in Figure 39 most commonly when the strips are narrow, say 50 mm or less, or in cabinets where opposite cabinet sides are linked with tenoned or dovetailed rails.
It’s also a useful option to try and arrange all the grain so that it rises towards one end when viewing the panel from the narrow edge, although this is often not possible because the grain orientation varies so much. If successfully achieved, this results in reduced tear-out when planing the final glue up, whether by hand or machine, ie, you can plane in one direction without tearout. Sometimes sacrificing this consideration over appearance is a valid choice.
There is always the thorny issue of what to do with very wide planks. Should they be ripped into narrower strips and re-glued, or left as one whole wide piece? I’ve never found any hard and fast rules that suits every case. The nature of the job determines the decision. Take, for example, a very wide plank, say 20” (500 mm) wide with striking grain pattern and other figuring, perhaps kiln dried to 7% or 8%. If it’s remained stable and flat during storage since then in RH varying between about 40% and 60% there is no particular reason to think it will become unstable as a furniture part and put into service in a typical house. With suitable cross bracing and means to hold it flat in the structure a viable choice might be to keep it whole with no ripping into narrower planks and re-gluing. Without large machinery to do the flattening and squaring this decision could result in a lot of hand work with planes, but hand work is sometimes very much worth the effort.
Where I have to join up narrow planks to make up wider panels I tend to use random widths. I willingly glue up stuff 175 mm (7”) wide and wider if I am able to incorporate suitable bracing. However, if I decide that I want the boards to be around, for example, 80 mm (3-1/8”) wide each, I try to keep them all about 15 to 20 mm (5/8” to 7/8”) either side of this figure, i.e., 60-100 mm (2-3/8” to 3-7/8”.) This tactic prevents just one board standing out as markedly different from the rest, and I happen to like a little irregularity anyway.
There are times when I machine stuff all to exactly the same width. This applies particularly when making a cabinet in which the top does not overhang the side to disguise any offset join lines. Offset join lines that run around the side to the top, and back down the other side in a cabinet with mitred corners are usually visually disconcerting.
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Figure 39, above. Joining tangentially, or flat sawn planks with the end grain arranged as at 1 results in a washboard effect as at 2 which is an exaggerated approximation.
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Figure 40, above. Cupping of panel in one direction due to arranging the bark side of the growth rings all towards one face.
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Figure 41, above. Joining quarter sawn planks to make up a panel. Typical movement in quarter sawn stock where the material merely become a little thinner because of the even shrinkage experienced.
7.8 Edge Joinery.
When joining narrow boards to make up wider slabs the traditional approach is the plain edge or butt joint. This is a good place to start because it helps with understanding other methods. It isn’t really an easy joint to prepare, and like every joint, proper preparation means reduced risk of failure. The idea is to prepare two edges that abut perfectly all along the length so that no pressure is required to close a gap. In practice, this is difficult to achieve and most workers aim for a ‘sprung’ joint.
The sprung joint has an evenly graduating gap produced at the centre point of the joint line of the two boards. After preparation very gentle hand pressure should be enough to close up two adjacent boards. When cramping up several well prepared boards in one go it is sometimes possible to close up all the gaps with one centrally located cramp.
The sprung joint helps counteract the comparatively volatile width expansion and contraction of the last 50- 100 mm (2- 4”) of a plank’s length. The end grain of timber absorbs and gives up moisture the most rapidly. During glue up of the sprung joint, the ends are closed just a little tighter than the middle, and this helps to compensate for the disparate movement.
In addition to this, custom and practise show that where the two joined edges are convex at glue-up the joint usually fails fairly quickly. In this situation bringing the edges together requires firm clamping pressure at both ends to close the gap. The joint will close, but both ends of the joint are under tensile stress and want to open up. As soon as a slight opening begins at the very extremity of the joint it’s my experience that serious failure soon follows-- a gap anything up to a few inches long extending towards the middle of the length develops in just days. The worst case is complete failure of the joint.
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Figure 42, above. A sprung joint. The gap is somewhat exaggerated here for clarity. When joining boards up to about 800 mm (32”) long the ideal gap at the mid-point should be about the same thickness as perhaps a cigarette paper. Longer edge joints tolerate a slightly wider gap. The ideal gap is one that will close with little or no more pressure than you’d need to hold something like a downward facing telephone directory with fingers and thumb either side of the spine.
The sprung joint on the other hand is much more durable. When formed correctly both ends of the joint should remain tight. Even with the greater volatility of expansion and contraction at the ends of a plank a gap doesn’t form. I use a zip as an analogy to explain what goes on. Close a zip and lock the tab at the end and the zip stays closed. Pull up the zip and leave the tag unlocked and the zip gradually opens.
The basic sprung edge joint provides the largest possible matching long grain glue surfaces. If we accept the premise that the strongest glue joint between two pieces of timber is long grain to long grain, then anything that reduces the maximisation of such a joint in table tops, panels, etc. weakens it.
Adjoining boards in a table top can, and do, drift out of line in the thickness and form a step. Even the weight of a TV or computer monitor will do it with a foot placed next to a glue line and left in place for long enough. This is the case with PVA glue that creeps, see earlier discussion.
For the reason just described, and in many other situations, many woodworkers like to include an alignment aid or reinforcement of some kind into the basic sprung joint, eg, biscuits, dowels, loose tongue, finger joint, etc. They all reduce the strength of the plain edge joint, but compensate for this loss through increased glue line length and mechanical locking. The alignment aids and machined edge joints work best when the joined edges are as carefully and meticulously prepared as if doing a basic sprung edge joint.
There is a further wood movement factor to consider in edge joinery. Water based glues such as PVA, hide glue, urea formaldehyde, etc, all introduce water to the glue line. This water is very localised, but it does cause wood to swell creating a slight ridge at the line itself, perhaps no more than 6- 10 mm (1/4”- 3/8”) wide. If you glue up a panel with PVA glue at 9 am, take it out of the clamps at, say, 12 pm and immediately get to work preparing the panel for polishing, and actually follow up with polish you’re likely to encounter a problem. A week or two after polishing you’ll notice a slight furrow tracking every glue line.
If you’ve used a series of glued in biscuits to reinforce the joints you’ll see a slight furrow, and evenly spaced roughly elliptical shaped depressions that match the position of each biscuit. The chances are that you’ll get away with this error on vertical surfaces because there is often little or no light glancing off the surface. But you won’t with table tops, and the glossier the polish the more the furrows and depressions stand out. Biscuits are manufactured of compressed beech wood, and they work in part by swelling with the water introduced during the gluing up procedure. This makes them fit tightly in the slot and can exacerbate any swelling caused by water alone.
Sufficient time is needed between introducing moisture to the wood causing it to swell, and preparation of the surface for polishing. The wood around the joint line needs two or three days to lose the added moisture and shrink down to match the level of the rest of the surface. I like to leave edge joined panels at least three days to settle, and a week is better still.
I have only discussed biscuits in this section, but similar considerations are required when using other edge joint reinforcement or alignment aids, eg, dowels or loose tongues. Non water based glues such as epoxy resin or polyurethane types don’t cause the same problems, but these types aren’t always appropriate for the job.
Richard Jones Furniture
And here's something to help you decide which way to plane a tangentially cut board, or possibly which way to arrange a bunch of boards in a planked up panel. It's usually the case that you can't arrange all the boards so that planing in one direction eliminates all tear out, but you can try. Slainte.
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Richard Jones Furniture
Whew. That took more than one cup of coffee. I guess I didn't realize the complexity of which I asked.........
OK, suppose that I have several tangentially cut boards with cathedral figure/grain. My take is to usually arrange them for the best looking surface, admittedly a personal preference. It would seem to me that it looks better if the cathedrals are all pointing in the same direction aside from planing issues. In this case would alternating heart side vs bark side be wise?
What effect does the joinery have with respect to maintaining flatness of the panel? I'm talking about the joinery of the panel to other parts of the cabinet, not the joinery of the boards themselves. For example, an end of a solid wood cabinet that will be joined to the legs with tenons.
Also, I'm confused by a statement in your response about how a sprung joint provides the longest long grain to long grain surface. How can this be any longer than an unsprung joint? Or am I reading that wrong?
I sincerely hope I'm not confusing you with these questions. This damn woodworking is complex; maybe I should start making panels out of plastic and faux painting them to look like wood! :-)
Most appreciative for the educashun,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"would alternating heart side vs bark side be wise?"
Depends. Wash board effect versus a panel wide concavity/convexity. Which matters most to you?
"What effect does the joinery have with respect to maintaining flatness of the panel? I'm talking about the joinery of the panel to other parts of the cabinet, not the joinery of the boards themselves. For example, an end of a solid wood cabinet that will be joined to the legs with tenons."
I'm not sure I fully understand the question, but there's usually, but not always, additional structure that triangulates the panel to leg joints, eg, top and bottom panel and/or side panel, or rails between the legs to hold things tolerably square.
Having said that I've seen quite a few tables configured with a thickish top, no rails, and legs joined into each corner of the panel with finger joints, dowels, KD fittings, M&T's etc. Over time some of these legs became noticeably out of parallel, and some didn't. It depended on how the top bowed, cupped, twisted etc, and even perhaps how flat the floor is.
"confused by a statement in your response about how a sprung joint provides the longest long grain to long grain surface. How can this be any longer than an unsprung joint?"
It isn't, but the sprung joint just has a small gap at the centre of the join prior to assembly. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Hi Richard,
Thanks for the insights, most appreciated.
As to the joining question, what I was wondering is if the joints have or can have anything to do with helping to keep the end panels flat. If you take a look at Randall O'Donnells Curly Highboy the ends are joined with a series of tenons (3) into mortises on the QA post blocks. This construction, to me, is consistent with that of breadboard construction, yes?
Also, the advantages of a sprung joint has always seemed to be counter intuitive to me. Why use one? The goal of the exercise is to create an invisible glueline hopefully such that the result appears to be one solid piece/slab of wood, right? Granted, the concavity of the boards is very small but why would one go to the effort of making the boards concave in the first place?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, if you go to my original post and re-read it I think you'll find the reasoning behind using a sprung joint is discussed in some detail. Whether or not the reasoning is correct is a different matter, but I wrote it because it's very like what I was taught when I trained and, since then, I've found it also matches my hands-on experience.
As to your second question I don't have the time now to respond. I'll get back sometime later with that. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
Bob, now that I've had chance to look at your question properly I'm afraid I can't give you an answer. I have no idea what this Randall O'Donnell made Highboy looks like.
If there's a picture of it at the paid membership bit of the Taunton website I'm afraid I don't have access to it. I've never had a reason to go there, so I've never paid my money and signed up. I only look in here, and over at Breaktime once in a blue moon. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
Picture QA legs with a long post block (~ 20") that is 2" square that has 3 mortises to accept the sides/ends. The side/end panels are tenoned much the same as you would for breadboard ends, these tenons are inserted into the mortises on the post block and typically pinned with rivened oak pins.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Now that I have a mental picture of the construction, it does seem similar to what others have alluded to, that it's very similar to clamped ends (aka breadboards in American speak.) The effectiveness of clamped ends to keep wide panels flat is debatable, and it rather depends on the particular construction and dimensions of the parts.
However, in this case I imagine there are wide, solid wood panels fixed perpendicular to each other at the leg corners and you've essentially got a box. So it should hold together very well, especially if those wide panels are able to expand and contract across the width. It seems like the construction is sound and all the parts should hold together flat and square. But it is hard to say with certainty that that is the case without examining the piece, or at least looking over good and detailed images.
Your description seems to suggest good construction, and my instincts suggest this is the case. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Perhaps I should have posted this topic on two parts:
From an asthetics and/or looks perspective?
As to the layout of the boards, is the goal to create a panel that looks like it would/should if it were one board? Or, is it simply a matter of preference in terms of appearance?
From a joinery perspective? Here we go folks: Do I want to deal with a concave/convex surface across the panel or a washboard effect? Do I sacrifice the one board look for the sake of joinery? Is that a realistic deecision in the first place?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,I think the goal would be for the look to be one board if possible, if not then to make it clear to the observer that the choice of wood was a design decision rather than an expedient one.
From an esthetic point of view, I would try to keep both upper case and lower base sides matching and both sides the same. I wouldn't mix and match the patterns. If you felt you really like the mix though, I would consider the swirl to the middle flanked by cathedrals.
For all cathedral sides, if it could be done in say, 3 flitch matched boards, I would adjust the central (cathedral) point toward the center and trim of right and left point respectively and adjust them down to blend in an upward thrust toward the central cathedral. Simpler and probably just as attractive is to have all three points arrive at the same point in the panel. (Kind of like 3 "Jetsons rockets" going off all at once:-)
The swirl grain is again problematic and you would have to arrive at the best esthetic. You might consider a fine veneer over matching stock so as to keep the bottom ends of the lower case sides "toolable". Keeping in mind, that what you do for one, you do for all panels. Front drawers also if you have enough wood. It might be interesting to reserve the swirls for the drawers and go for cathedrals the upper and lower case sides.
Given the tenon situation, I don't think a sprung joint would be of a defined benefit to you. Really good edge flatness will be fine. It is a breadboard scenario. As long as you center pin true (perhaps offset) and elongated the other pin receiving holes, you should be OK. Given good prep and panel glue up, and very tight tenons, there is no reason to believe that you would have either cupping or washing. Keep in mind that once glued up the panel will only expand/contract as a unit and at the width of the panels (lower) minimal.
Actually you could offset all pins and still elongate the north and south pins vertically.It wouldn't effect panel flatness at all.
This also a classic case of "beware glue creep". You may want to consider hide or plastic resin instead of TB 1,2, or 3.All IMHO.John
Thanks John, lots of good info.,
My imediate project leads me to believe that the case ends will be cathedrals running horizontally and the front of swirling grain. That way it will give the impression of all the Jetsons lifting off simultaneously with the exhaust swirl in the middle-front!
Just kidding. Good ideas and practices for all.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Kidding or not, it might look really cool. Fine woodworking needs a touch of whimsy. It makes your work unique. Have it all take place on the front with the swirls at bottom. Total lift off.
Cape KiddervilleRegards
I wasn't exactly kidding about it. Last night I went up to the woodshed and pulled out all the boards I will be using and laid them out on the TS/outfeed table. Spent some time rearranging them for the ends and front.
I tried your suggestion and liked what I saw and I agree with you but perhaps in a slightly different context, whimsy certainly did play a part. Also It's not likely that one will see all parts of a piece at the same time anyway.
I do like the looks of the swirling grain on the top as well. I have several wide boards with this grain/figure in them. Just have to cut off some sapwood.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Keep in mind that you will have the grain running horizontally in the lowboy section, and vertically in the upper section.
Myself, I would match cathedrals and try to keep the boards the same side of the tree out, but would let a better match of grain visually overrule that. You said your boards were about 11 inches wide, so its only the one glue line. A sprung joint is only a couple thousandths of an inch per side - a single stop cut with a smoothing plane on each matching edge is all. Pupose of the sprung joint is to keep the ends of the board forced together as the wood moves.
I would also point the cathedrals back on the lowboy, and up on the top case, this will enforce the visual depth and height.
But the bottom line is take *your* boards, lay them out, maybe use some mineral spirits to pop the grain out, and arrange them to suit *you*!
There is no wrong way.
Mike
Richard & All,
A saying that helps me remember which way to plane a board is "Pith With". When planing the pith side of a board, plane the direction the grain points. You do the opposite on the other side.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chis,
Now hold on a second here.
The pith is in the center so are you talking about a board that is sawn whereby it splits the pith and it doesn't extend thru the board to the other side? Also I'm under the impression that the pith is normally removed as being undesireable, eh?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Chris is talking about the pith side of the board; that is, the side of the board that faces the pith, the side of the board that is more "interior" to the tree.
-Steve
Bob,
You're correct. I guess I wasn't clear enough. What I meant to say is that when planing the side of the board which is CLOSER to the pith, you should follow the direction of the grain.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Morning Bob ,
Richard gave an excellent answer and data for your question , I think as was said depending on your application and desired look you can follow most of the rules most of the time but sometimes you need to place the boards together the way they look the best .
I surface my panels after glue up sometimes by planing so making sure the direction is running all the same is important even if you have to flip a board , after final surfacing the panel will be flat .
I like to try to glue my panels up to look like they grew that way in as natural way as possible , I love it when people ask where the seams are , my answer is if you can't see them I'll not show you .
dusty
Thanks dusty,
The application I'm talking about is QA firniture and I'm building it much the same way as Randall O'Donnells Curly Highboy base cabinet (FWW #117), just different proportions. Not raised panels.
If I orient the cathedrals in the same direction then it ends up looking like bookmatched boards, not the way it grew. If I alternate the cathedrals it makes for a an interesting pattern, again not the way it grew, i.e. natural as you said.
What about using boards of varying widths? What about boards with varying grain/figure patterns? Say I have two boards with cathedral grain, another with a swirling pattern - not cathedral? Is this situation a matter of personal taste; I suspect the answer is yes.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob ,
Maybe you could select the boards to be free of cathedrals , seems in a refined piece such as this traditionally matching grains not all different colored boards was common . Are you using curly Maple ?
Varying widths can work say 3 boards , 2 ends the same .
It is personal taste if you build for your self , perhaps not when for a client.
as my old German buddy say's "selection of the grain makes the craftsman"
dusty , so that's what those fine legs were for , no turning back now
dusty,
Are you using curly Maple ? Nope, have some special cherry.
Hmmmmmm, I have several boards (some 11+" wide) that have what I'd call a swirling grain/figure, not curly (dang) that have the swirling rings you might see as a result of a knot/branch in them. These swirls appear every so often down the length of the board. I was thinking of using these for the doors on the front.
Like you said it seems at this level it is a matter of ones personal taste notwithstanding Richards points of joinery. I guess I need to look at this both ways.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
There is one important point about selecting stock for a glue up that I don't think has been mentioned, and that is the reflectivity of the wood. Wood is much like carpet, in that it will appear to change color slightly or the intensity of the figure will change, depending on the direction from which it is viewed. This is especially important with lumber displaying a curly pattern. The link below shows this to good effect.
http://americanfederalperiod.com/relectivity.html
Rob Millard
Ahh, that chatoyance bugger!? There are so many factors/influences that enter into this kind of discussion and I am hoping that we get a chance to present most of them.
Another question that comes to mind: Does grain orientation have an effect on the quality/longevity of an edge joint? What I mean is a joint where the grain of two boards are running in opposite directions?
Example: I have two boards that have cathedral grain/figure. I decide that I want the boards oriented such that the cathedrals point in opposite directions the resulting long grain edges running nearly diagonal along the edge. When the two boards are glued together the grain(s) on each edge would result in a criss-cross pattern.
Jeeeesh, it seems like the questions seem to be getting more complex than the answers for cryin out loud!
:-)
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 5/6/2008 10:34 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Jeeeesh, it seems like the questions seem to be getting more complex than the answers for cryin out loud!
YEP.. Like askin / tellin' ' the little Lady you want to go out to the Pub fer' a beer. And it all begins...
Ya Rob. Especially the quartersawn stuff.
Dang BOB... It all boils down if it looks good to you and the receiver! What else matters?
Bob,
On rethinking it, I would suggest tight pinning the top tenon only and leave everything to expand south so it wouldn't interfere with the upper caseworks. Elongating the pin holes on the southern two tenons. This would also mean leaving a little extra space on the both the upper and lower sides of each of the remaining two lower leg mortises. Of course there is the problem of expansion down into the upper inside of the legs - the kneeblocks. Unless you left them open on the bottom. The kneeblocks being merely a "U" shape (inverted) block attached to the legs but looking solid from the side and ends.
I still think the best tightness in this scenario will be to draw pin the mortises. May not even need glue!
Regards
John
John,
Your suggestion mirrors mine with regard to expansion. It seemed like I had two issues; movement of the panels vs the top and the knee blocks. If I pin the top MT and let the bottom expand/contract then gluing the knee blocks to the post block should work.
On the bottom two MTs I would leave 1/8" to 3/16" expansion room for these MTs. Perhaps pin them as well but elongate the holes on the panels.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Great minds think alike!Of course my gray cells are spilling all over the floor at an alarming rate.RegardsJohn
Quick!
Put your earplugs in!
GD&R
Mike
Mike,I would but the ear plug foam is so old, it's falling on the floor at an equally alarming rate. It's gray also. Maybe it's not my gray cells, just ear plug foam.John
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