I’m making some exterior doors in VG fir, and am wondering if my 40mm deep tenons are going to be strong enough. Should I also screw them? I am using Lepage outdoor wood glue.
Two are French doors with leaded glass panels, and the other is a front door with a Floating Mahogany panel, and then on top of that another rail, then a small leaded glass panel. I know it won’t hurt, but I hate the look of those screw plugs.
Replies
Uncle Chicken
If you are worried about strength and holding power, you may want to consider splitting the tenons and cutting an angle in your mortises. You could then insert wedges in the slots before assembly and drive everything home, expanding the tenons and giving you the effect and holding power of a blind dovetail. I am assuming that your rails limit the tenons to 40 mm. You could also use the same technique and have through tenons, with the wedges and tenons visible. This would add strength but directly influence the design.
I am sure there will be a wave of suggestions on this one. Good luck, JL
Have you ever used the technique you are describing. This sounds like a great idea, but I wonder if it works. I have never heard of that before. I may do some experimenting with it. Thanks for the new idea.
miller
Yes I have and it works fine, either as a blind wedged tenon or as a through tenon. Alas, it is not my idea, though I am happy to introduce it to you. It has been around much longer than I have. :-) JL
I was familiar with the through wedge tenon I have used that technique myself. The blind wedge tenon was new to me. Thank you for the info.
miller
No reason to thank me, but you are welcome.
If you have done the through wedged tenon, then you will have no trouble doing a blind one. It is basically the same technique, with obvoius modifications. JL
what a very nice name, the last one is'nt George is it {sorry}but Roots go deep. Now to the heart of the matter my old foreman would polish his size 10's on you know where if I made a door that size with stub tennons. double tenons bottom, middle and single tenon at the top rail this would be haunched. hope this makes sense good-luck what ever method you use never stop-tenon~~ing
Unclechicken,
You could try drawboring. It's a simple, almost forgotten technique. If you can't find anything on it, let me know, and I'll copy what I have from Woodworking Magazine, and e-mail or snail-mail it to you.
Watch out for Colonel Sanders!
Steve
There are two secrets to keeping one's wife happy.
1. Let her think she's having her own way.
2. Let her have her own way. President Lyndon Baines Johnson
If your rails are limiting the tenon to 40mm, then the best you can do is wegde them. Otherwise, make them deeper than 40mm. Why not?
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
That may be enough IF there is enough height / width to the bottom rail, so long as your joints are good and tight, and the door is not too wide. I am not familiar with the glue that you mentioned, and your profile doesn't even reveal what planet you are on.
As far as blind wedging on large doors, I don't think I would have the nerve to try that. My luck would be that it would bind itself tight before ever bottoming out.
If your bottom rail is tall enough in height, I think you are better off breaking it up into 2 - 4 tenon rather than just one long one.
I am with Ring though wondering why you don't cut them deeper?
You didn't say how big these doors are, but I will say if you are making 3' wide full stained glass doors, that is a lot of dead weight hanging out there on your joinery. You really don't want to face having to fix these doors if the joints fail.
If the reason you can only be 40 mm deep, is because that is how long your router bit is, you have ask the wrong question. It should have been where do I find a longer bit, or how do others do this deeper with this set-up?
Keith
If you draw it out full size, and respect your drawing, you will succeed in doing wedged tenons the very first time. Just be sure to leave a little room between the end of the tenon and the bottom of the mortise...also insure that the wedge is not too long at the point (you don't even need a point).
As far as Uncle Chicken's origins are concerned, with a name like that, he gets a pass in my book, and doesn't need to tell anyone where he is from. :-) JL
OK, let me clarify a bit. I make these doors 1 3/4 thick, with a 3/4 x 3/4 dado running the entire width of the stiles made with my 8" dado blade. Then for the top and bottom rails, I raise the blade to it's full depth (40 mm). So these aren't 'fully enclosed ' tenons, but slip tenons, I guess you could call it. So wedged tenons aren't an option. Although, that is something to look into for later doors. I'm experimenting here. The French doors are 34" x 80", and the Front door is 32 x 80. So not huge. And I think I'm going to have lot's of explaining to do with my name...
My niece calls me this; She's 3 and has called me this since she could talk. I don't know why. I don't think I look like a chicken. But it is cute. I get some weird looks, though. I hope for her sake she stops it before she's 18...
Uncle Chicken
Business first and then a note about the name.
40mm is slightly over 1.57 inches. That is a pretty deep tenon and if, as was previously stated, your machining is not sloppy (my short form of the previous post), it should work just fine. I have never used the glue you mention but I have used the Lepage interior glue, and their epoxy...they performed very well. I am partial to a urea based glue for exterior applications, but this is a personal quirk since I know that there are many very fine waterproof glues on the market today.
You have a great name and it comes from the best of sources. If I was you I would hope she never stopped calling you that. If nothing else, it starts up conversations. JL
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