How about this reply from Jet CS dept.
Over in Sawmill Creek there is a member that bought a brand new big 1442vs Jet lathe. It had a grinding noise. Here is his post:
“I got ripped off by Jet! Bought a 1442vs lathe last week. I called them serveral times about a grinding sound when set at 450 rpm. They told me a bunch of non-sense then left me hanging. When I did a careful inspection I found pieces of the upper pulley. Called them one more time and told them what I found, they said that they will send someone to my house the next day to fix it. I waited 3 days, no one came, no calls. I called them again and asked them why haven’t anyone showed up. They said ” what do you mean, we don’t offer that kinda service” Now they say I have to bring it in to a service center. Okay… so I brought it in, 3 hrs later I got a call saying that it won’t be cover under warranty, I’d have to pay for it! When I asked why, I was told that it is was my fault. The repair guy thinks that I pushed the spindle lock button while the lathe was on! I told him I read the complete manual before operating it. And that I’m fully aware of what happens if I push the button while the lathe is running. He just said it’ll be roughly $140 to fix it! I’ve purchased several of their tools, but this will be the last!”
He bought it a his local Rockler store, paid cash for it. He took the whole big headstock back to Rockler and they told him that he broke it.
Another member sent Jet/WMH Tool company an email: Here is his post:
The electronic age is wonderful. Instant gripe/gratification. I also forwarded the link to this thread to WMH.
Pasted below is their response:
<<<“Mr. Fusco,
Thank you for your email. I am not familiar with the Sawmill Creek website, but our Technical Service Manager does monitor a few different woodworking forums; therefore, I contacted him for a statement about Mr. Tran’s post.
“Thanks for the head’s up. Sawmill Creek isn’t one of the forums that I keep an eye on. I regret that Mr. Tran has encountered a difficulty with his lathe; however, I do not read anything in his post that leads me to be able to attribute the failure to a manufacturing defect. Quite the contrary, two independent agencies have investigated his problem and they arrived at the same conclusion: someone engaged the spindle lock with the lathe running. I’m sorry that Mr. Tran felt that an internet forum was the appropriate place to ‘air his laundry’; however, I believe his anger is misplaced. He should be angry with whoever pushed the spring-loaded spindle lock button while his lathe was running. This has caused him a lot of trouble.
Be that as it may, should Mr. Tran contact JET Technical Service, we will be happy to offer him a price discount on the necessary repair parts that he needs to return his lathe to proper operating condition.
Please feel free to forward this to Mr. Tran, if you know him.”
Sincerely,
Aundrea Berkey
WMH Tool Group
Internet Customer Support
www.wmhtoolgroup.com >>>
Not really a satisfactory response IMHO
__________________
Frank G. Fusco
Just wanted to let you folks know what kind of customer service you might be in for. You can make your own conclusions.
——————–
Thanks, Mark
Edited 7/31/2006 11:33 pm ET by Mark Rios
Replies
"You can make your own conclusions." I conclude that it's pretty ridiculous to drag a post by someone else in a different forum over here to "alert" us to theoretically possible problems with a particular company.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 7/31/2006 11:57 pm by forestgirl
Well, you are certainly entitled to feel that way. I apologize if you were offended. We just have a difference of opinion.Thanks for your time.
I'm rather shocked that you don't have contact information for at least three higher-ups in customer service at WMH.
Are you holding out on us, or did you post it at SawMill Creek?
Mark,
Since I know nothing about the mechanics involved in this failure, perhaps you can enlighten me regarding whether this type of problem can occur without any action taken by the user? Does the manufacture routinely run every machine before it leaves the plant such that the problem could have occurred during the QA process? Is the user a first-time user or an experienced lathe operator? Is the spindle lock standard on all lathes or is it possible that the user was unfamiliar with its operation?
If you can't answer these questions then I agree with Forestgirl that is more than a little disingenuous to post someone else's issue and automatically painting the manufacture as the bad guy without providing all of the facts from which we can draw a reasonable and fair conclusion.
Doug
These questions have, in fact, been addressed in the original thread. It's now 5+ pages so posting the entire thread here would of course just be silly and probably make forrestgirl blow a gasket. :-) (just teasin').First off, my disappointment stems from the two retailers involved, namely Rockler and Jet/WMH Tool. Not that they didn't immediately jump into their personal cars, race over to the tool owners house and fix it personally (I know, I'm exaggerating here), but rather the immediate dismissal of the owner and, at least by implication, calling him a liar and an idiot for depressing the spindle lock. I did customer service for Ford Motor Co. for six years and this type of response jsut didn't seem, to me, to be a response that shows a concern for a customer or his/her feelings.He is an experienced turner, knowing about spindle locks and other aspects of lathe ooperation, care and maintenance. Apparently, from the statements of the many experienced (some expert?) turners that have posted responses, depressing the spindle lock and getting it to engage while the lathe is powered on and turning would be a pretty difficult thing to do. Also, it is the pulley that drives the belt that turns the spindle that has broken. The consensus is, to a person, that the belt would have to have broken or the spindle would have been damaged instead of the pulley and that the pulley is too far removed to have been affected.As a company, is it prudent to call a customer a liar. It seems to me to be much more prudent to replace a couple dollar part that to send a " We don't really care much about your situation which you probably caused anyway" letter.My intentions weren't to spark debate nor were they to offend and, again, I apologize if this has occured. My only thought was that a fellow woodworker was being treated, SEEMINGLY, unfairly and at the very least, not being given the benifit of the doubt. Isn't that what we all would like to have happen to us if we were to experience something similar? Isn't that what we EXPECT if a brand new tool that we spend alot of money on has something wrong with it?
Edited 8/1/2006 11:50 am ET by Mark Rios
Here is an update:A Mr. Scott Ekman from Rockler was made aware of this issue and thread. Here is his post to the thread in it's entirety:"Liem,I am the VP of Marketing at Rockler. I was just made aware of the difficult experience you are having with your new JET lathe. I'm very sorry for the way you have been treated. Rockler has a 90-day unconditional guarantee on all our products. If you are not fully satisfied with any of your purchases, you can bring it in for a full refund or exchange.I just got off the phone with our Houston store and they will be happy to exchange the lathe for you. They don’t currently have another one in stock, but will certainly order one if you stop in. Should you have any further issues, please let me know. Scott Ekman
VP of Marketing
Rockler Woodworking and Hardware
http://www.rockler.comTHIS is the way we all want to be treated when we spend our dollars. Rockler has come through and has apparently shown their true customer concerns philosphy. HATS OFF TO ROCKLER!!!!!!!Thanks to all of you for reading and for your candid responses. This seems to be an intelligent bunch of folks here in FWW Knots. Glad to have shared a thread.Thanks again.
While it is not possible to determine if the breakage was the fault of the operator, someone else, or defect, it is a class response from Rockler. I would definately call that good will.
"HATS OFF TO ROCKLER!!!!!!!"Not really. The VP just told him about a policy that all Rockler employees should have been fully aware of and the customer should never have had to wait a minute to be told about it. The lathe should never have been disassembled with the customer waiting to hear about whether it would be covered if it went back to Rockler first, not a Jet service center. If it went directly to the Jet center, there's no reason to expect that teh Rockler policy should have been offered.I just edited this to add the last two sentences above. This is another case of bad customer service on the 'clerk' level. In Milwaukee, there's one Rockler store. Too bad there isn't another one. If the Houston store is like the one here, I can understand why he had to wait for the 90 day full satisfaction info. OTOH, I have dealt with customers for a really long time and have had formal CS training. There are two sides to every story and it's still plausible to believe that the customer did something to cause the problem. There hasn't been any proof one way or another, so let's just say that it's possible. The customer was a beginner (new to woodworking) when he bought the lathe but he may have had metal lathe experience. Who knows- we haven't heard the whole story, by any means. I still think people who work in retail need more training before being unleashed on the buying public. Everyone will have a first customer but they should at least know the company policies or know how to find the answers to questions they can't answer immediately.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 8/2/2006 10:31 am by highfigh
"He is an experienced turner, knowing about spindle locks and other aspects of lathe ooperation"
I looked into it a little. His first post seems to be from April of this year where he says he is new to woodworking. It seems he became an expert in just a few months. In another post he asks for help because he can't seem to understand the directions on a new third party mitre guage he just purchased.
The story may be exactly as stated but I get the feeling that there may be a little more to it then his version leads us to believe.
This sounds like not just hearsay, but compound hearsay of the worst kind, i.e. gossip.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Edited 8/1/2006 5:31 pm by jazzdogg
Jazz, you've been around here for quite awhile, seen the conflagrations that erupt occasionally. Whadya think would happen if I had drug that mess over here? Sheesh. I'd catch all kinds of h*||. Knots must be a mess if we need threads from other forums to entertain ourselves.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Jamie,
As far as I'm concerned it amounts to little more than finger pointing and gossip; kid's stuff, really.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Well, here is a 1st-person account of an ungood experience with WMH: The feed belt of my brand new drum sander could not be made to track (still can't either). Within a few days the feed belt separated at its joint. I figured that was why it wouldn't track -- defective belt. Called WMH. After introductions & explanations, the first words from WMH were "that isn't covered by warranty." Somehow in the conversation it was suggested that I contact the seller. I contacted the seller who got me a new belt which won't track either, but at no cost to me. Personally, if an item has a warranty, I expect it to cover the whole machine, no parts excepted. If any part fails almost immediately, I expect the maker to pony up, not pass the buck. My reaction has been not to buy Powermatic when I upgraded my tablesaw, jointer, & drill press. That is partly because I have never been able to make the sander track with any of 5 belts as well my opinion of their apparent attitude about warranties. I have sold a few things by mail order. I always gave a money-back guarantee which I honored on the only occasion it was requested. I expect wealthy corporations & those who expect to be wealthy to honor their warranties as faithfully.Maybe someone shouldn't drag in complaints from other sources, but I am not really surprised at the story that was told. BTW, I am old. Seldom have I been stonewalled when I had a warranty claim. Once stonewalled, your error. Twice stonewalled, my error.BTW, I have designed a few mechanisms myself. IMHO, an expensive lathe should be designed such that the spindle lock CANNOT be engaged if the spindle is turning if damage will occur. It may not be impossible on my el cheapo lathe, but it is something the user would have to go to great lengths to accomplish since it is a removable part.I hope this doesn't offend you & FG too badly.Cadiddlehopper
Hi "Clem,"
I'm not offended in the least. Nor am I a fan of WMH - though I enjoy working on some of the old Powermatic tools.
Reading the posts here at Knots is a lot like people watching at an airport: I see a wide variety of folks, many of whom are quite interesting, some of whom are conspicuously intelligent, but there are a great many whose public behavior just baffles me.
I guess that's the best way I can describe my reaction to the initial post.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
"I hope this doesn't offend you & FG too badly." Here's something else I don't understand, the whole idea that I might be "offended" by any of this. Being offended takes a great deal of energy, IMHO, and I reserve that reaction to things like racist slurs, or patently sexist behaviors. The thought that I'd be "offended" by anything in this thread is pretty ridiculous.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"The thought that I'd be "offended" by anything in this thread is pretty ridiculous."
There's a hint folks. Try a bloody sight harder, ha, ha-- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Rat Poison Redux?
That didn't "offend" me either, Splintie.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Ah, so there's still some headroom yet...
Even if I knew you personally I doubt that I could judge your tolerance, or that of anyone else, for offense. IMHO, apologizing ahead of time seemed appropriate since you sounded (to me) a bit offended with Mark Rios.BTW, what does ROFL mean, please?Cadid
ROFL = roll on the floor laughing
Take care, Mike
Thanxx!!C.
Jamie,I don't want to discuss the ethics of dragging of a post from another forum but I am wondering if the good people at Rockler would have reacted the same way if said dragging didn't happen.
There is something to be said about the "power of the internet".C.
I agree!!!! This is there customer base...Citro Thank you for bring this to our attention. With that said, I had a problem with my 6" Jet Jointer out of the box. I service man was there in 2 day...New moter in a week. Wilkes in York PA that did the service. Top notch.
PS Forest I thought The main purpose of this forum was to help each other.... This kind of stuff is helpful. The hearsay part does concern me thought.
Rich
The thing that gets me with the whole post is the one side of the story. I worked with the public a long time, and more times than you might imagine there would be a person that brings a something in and says it broke on its own, and really they did break it by the very means that this company says their product broke, and only after some very pointed questions did you finally get the truth out of them that 'they might have accidently' done something. I agree that if by accident you can cause that kind of damage the thing should be dealt with, but for sure not by falsifying the problem or how it happened. Tell me you broke it and I'd be more inclined to 'do something' about it. Lie to me and I'll balk every time. The thing is Rockler did the right thing, and the customer could have also done that on his own. I agree withe FG on one thing, I don't need to be alerted about someone's dissatisfaction of a product this way. If you didn't personally have an issue with the company then IMHO you didn't need to run them through the mud on hearsay.
I read the original post three or four times and the one line that jumps out at me is "the guy paid cash" for the lathe. Is it any possiblility he bought the floor model at a discount and someone broke the spindle while the lathe was sitting in the store? If that's the case, it should be buyer beware when you purchase floor models without trying them out first.
Tell me and I'll forget, show me and I'll remember, but let me try and I will understand.
The fact that the guy paid cash shouldn't matter at all. Maybe he doesn't/can't use credit cards or checks. Who cares how he paid? It should be "buyer beware" but the dealer should make sure the goods are sellable. Also, customers should be honest about what happened when something breaks or stops working in any way. In my long history in retail, my observation is that many aren't honest about this kind of thing. They waste time and resources in finding the cause of their problems. We can't be sure how the lathe broke and we haven't heard everything, so it's pretty pointless to take sides here. I have had bad experiences at all of the woodworking tool stores here in Milwaukee but I'm not going to discount the possibility that the customer caused the breakage.
To All-Most floor models haven't been used, ever. Some stores do demos with floor model machines, some don't. They should still come with the original factory warranty, unless specifically stated. As I said before, if the customer went to the Jet factory service center instead of going back to Rockler, then it's Jet who made the decision to charge him for the broken part(s) and Rockler's 90 day total satisfaction clause doesn't even enter the picture until he complained to them about the lathe's problem. Maybe he should have tried it out but as a beginner to turning, he may not have known what to look for. It's also Rockler's responsibility to make sure the machines they sell are in goor working condition unless sold on an "as is" basis. Rockler is getting kudos for covering something that they may have anyway, if the customer had gone to them first, assuming the clerk knew about it. The VP followed company policy. Kind of like getting a reward just for going to work or school, whether being productive, or not.Again, there are two sides to every story and we heard the customer's version, possibly highly biased in his favor and even then, it's second or third hand. We don't know the whole story and unless the buyer comes here and tells it factually with no embellishments or omissions, we'll never be totally up on it.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"The fact that the guy paid cash shouldn't matter at all." Amen
"We can't be sure how the lathe broke and we haven't heard everything, so it's pretty pointless to take sides here." Amen
"Again, there are two sides to every story and we heard the customer's version, possibly highly biased in his favor and even then, it's second or third hand." Amen
"unless the buyer comes here and tells it factually with no embellishments or omissions, we'll never be totally up on it." Welllllll, not really, because we'll still only have one side of the story, but it would be an improvement. ;-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I sure agree with you on this one!! I used to work in a lawn and garden store and we had floor models that we demonstrated some. When the selling season was done, we would sell those at a discounted price. They were advertised as floor models or demo's but they all carried full factory warranties, no matter if they paid cash, or financed, or check or however. That shouldn't matter ever. If it broke, we fixed it so long as it was a manufacturer concern or something that was the result of demonstration wear and tear. And as stated before, we will never ever know the full story on this one.
"because we'll still only have one side of the story,"That's the reason I included 'factually' in my post. Any time there's a dispute, I like to get people to stop yelling, crying or whatever and give me facts and I tell them that there's no point in going any further unless I get facts, not emotion. I try to get them to write things down, too. Harder to whine or yell on paper and it actually makes them modify the original story once they see that it's not the way things happened.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Unless they tell us factually....
But even then, we really don't know, because how do we know whether it is factual or not?
Sounds like we need to invite God to participate, doesn't it? LOL! The whole thing just cracks me up (old expression for "makes me ROFL").forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
A fact is a fact. Anything else can't be called that. If the details are relayed form the perspective of one person or another, it's not a fact, it's that person's version. I mean in the sense of what happened, not what the two sides perceived.How about if I call it 'what really happened'? Is that better? This is like Bill Clinton debating the definition of the word 'is'.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
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