Hi –
I’ve had two pc893pk routers in a row that generate a lot of heat. The mainshaft/collet and bit get so hot it’s hard to change bits. The first replacement I got I ran without a collet and it still got very hot so the problem seems to be with the motor. Has anyone else had this kind of trouble with this motor?
Mike
Replies
I'd give your nearest PC service center a call.
http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=257 My older 690 doesnt get hot like yours but it may be that the increased rpm (27,500) of the newer 690's may make them run hotter.
Edited 8/1/2004 6:55 pm ET by jc
Dear jc,
Even without the collet they get quite hot at the shaft tip, but have not had problem changing bits, since the collet ejects the bit automatically when loosened.
Found about this a while back, have ignored it, and so far so good.
Would say it's not a motor problem, but may relate to brushes, or bearing friction, even if minute.
If you look inside a typical any-brand router, running without a bit, at low lighting, there's a lot of sparking going on where brushes make contact at very high RPM's. Sometimes new brushes spark more than after they set with use. TOO much sparking means bad brushes or other problems.
Have not bothered to check the Bosch, but concur on your observation for P.C.
Another factor is that a typical router cooling fan can hardly be said to cool the collet, and beyond to the bit.
However, a bit cools much itself by its turning into fresh air and passes heat to the shavings and to the remaining stock.
So, when the router is used as called, the collet might actually be cooler than whith no bit and not cutting.
If you, or others find out more on the subject, please share.
Thanks.
-mbl-
I have an 890 that gets pretty hot after using for several minutes. I noticed this recently after plowing some dadoes/grooves in mdf. The collet was hot enough to be uncomfortable but not enough to burn you. Funny thing is that the cutter wasn't hot at all.
Thanks all.
I have a 690 I've used for five years and it never ever got hot like this. And since this motor is the successor to the 690 (and the power increase isn't much) I see no reason for it to get so hot (i.e., if they can build the 690 to run cool why can't they with this motor?).
What sort of bugs me is I get a different story depending on who I ask. I have the same heat problem as all of you but Pat Warner mailed me back and said his does NOT get hot (same motor, 89x). I emailed router workshop (I watched Rick hold a collet/bit for a relatively long time making me think they must not have been hot; I couldn't hold mine for that long) and they said return the motor.
I've talked to half a dozen people at PC (one at the factory) and most either have never heard of this problem (I find that hard to believe) or they say it was designed like this (something to do with different bearings than the 690 which I was told had an unacceptable warranty failure rate. I never heard 690 problems like that and I sure never had a bearing problem with mine after five years). I also emailed a couple ww mags and am waiting to hear back.
This is the second 89x I've had and can't figure out if I should return this for yet another replacement. But it seems that not every 89x motor gets hot - that means something's definitely wrong. Half the time I'm suspicious PC has some serious design flaw too expensive to fix (this heating may go all the way back to the beginning of production) and half the time I figure maybe they really did allow for this much heat.
But even that bugs me. Who would build a small router that gets so hot you need gloves to handle the collet? What about sustained heat leading to metal fatigue? What about bit slippage caused by heat differentials? I guess my biggest problem is really believing a small router like the 89x motor needs to generate so much heat.
I really (REALLY!) like this update to the 690. I like everything about it. So I'm very reluctant to dump this and buy another brand.
Mike
Mike,
That much heat cannot be acceptable. Whatever feature, bearings, brushes, etc. is not functioning properly. Is there any more vibration than you would expect? Does the shaft rotate as freely as your other routers? If the collet is hot but the cutter is not, then the heat is originating in the router and migrating to the collet. Not good. Equally not good is hearing different answers from PC. Worst case? Try to return it and then, if you really like the design, wait awhile to re-purchase after they have had time to solve their problem. You are certainly not the only guy unlucky enough to get their two bad ones.
Greg
There doesn't really seem to be anything out of the ordinary except for the heat. If the serial nums are straightforward then this heat situation goes (it seems) all the way back to the beginning of production. So PC either designed it this way (which I just can't believe), there's a never-ending QC problem, or there's a design flaw. It's not possible that a year or so into production I'm the only one complaining so PC must at least know about it. But considering both I've had are very recent units apparently they haven't done anything about it (if they even plan to).
I emailed some wood mags and a prominent one happened to be doing a combo review. They said they did not notice this heat problem but after getting my email they went back and took a closer look. And they found the same thing I (and others) have - the motor gets substantially hotter than any other in this class. So I'm very anxious to find out what they discover from PC since they stand a far better chance than I do of getting to the bottom of it...
Mike
Dear mdixon,
The PC-7518, as said before, does the same thing, even with no collet, just free-running, and that's an old time-proven design.
Recently did a cursory check on other routers here of other brands, and they do the same too.
The router motors are universal and use carbon brushes. There's friction there and sparking and heat generated there goes to the shaft. The tempreature raises but does not create a problem. It's innevitable to have heat there. The carbon brushes are constantly rubbing and sparking at 20000 RPM's, so where they touch is much hotter even.
Most of the time we don't realize the phenomenom because we use wrenches and by the time we touch the collet, much cooling has taken place.
Let us know of any official reply, though.
Good luck.
-mbl-
I bought a 690 to use with a dovetail jig (didn't want the plunge), and it also got so hot that it was uncomfortable to hold. I took it back. My other routers do not get that hot.
It was also extremely difficult to change the bits - the instructions say put the bit in then put it in the base, but the Leigh jig requires the bit to go through the collar first, so that doesn't work.________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Friend,
The 690 used to be 1.5HP fixed speed, and the power now is increased to 1.75HP and they show a variable speed version.
They would have to do some change. Something like bigger brushes, or a different type, could trigger more friction. But the equipment must have passed their tests.
However, overlooks are possible. For instance, an increase in temperature rise can be taken care by improved insulation, or it might still be within its rating, but there is still a temperature tolerance treshold to human touch.
There probably isn't any standards to that effect there yet.
Best wishes.
-mbl-
Are your bits sharp? Is your feed rate too slow? Either can cause a router to get pretty warm. Another cause could be making very long runs (several feet).
I have the same setup as you, and mine get warm and the collet gets hot when used for a while. I never gave it much thought. I just use a rag on the bit to remove it. I just attributed it to the heat associated with friction of the bit on wood.
I had a terrible problem with a hot bit and template collar on a project this winter. I had about 20 handle cutouts to rout on some box sides, and the brass tightening ring for the collar got so hot that it would become loose after each cut. I think there was friction from the waste as well as from the bit contacting the wood. I had to wait for the setup to cool down for several minutes before I could get back to work.
After putting up with this for about 5 cutouts, I discovered that if I kept the router running and laid it on its side for a minute, it would cool itself enough to let me keep going. After that revelation, I never had the problem again.
I brought this thread to the attention of Tool Guy, and he's going to talk with his Porter Cable connection, see what he has to say. If I remember correctly, he thought maybe it was a "production run" problem, and that you got two routers from the same run.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks all for the info. I'm still getting the hang of this forum so I'm really trying to reply to this thread and not just forestgirl.
Regarding the 690, I've had mine for five years. My 690 doesn't even get warm, let alone as hot as the 890. And it is true the 690 box says "1.75HP" but you'll note PC has started using "peak" to qualify that. They were more honest with the older 690s simply stating 1.5HP. The two 690s (IME) have the same power.
But I would be curious to know when you got it. I called TN and the PC guy told me 690s were prone to warranty failures because they used bearings that let them run cool (so he says). So I wonder if that's why yours ran hot whereas mine never did? Maybe they introduced a bearing change on the 690 and have just carried the hotter-running setup over to the 890 when they began producing it?
Regarding the 7518, you gotta admit that's a pretty studly router. If any router has a reason to get hot it gets my vote. But this 890 is a "peak" 2.25HP router, probably really only a 30% power increase over the 690. Yet the heat isn't 30% greater - more like a 1000% greater. And the magazine I referred to told me they ran a Bosch, Makita and DeWalt same as the PC and all three were cool to the touch. I don't doubt what you say but it seems that at least the magazine determined the PC is significantly hotter than other like-class routers and enough so that they said they were going to look into it.
Any thing anyone finds out I hope you'll post because only the worst of news (like a design flaw they aren't going to fix) could make me return this outstanding upgrade to the venerable 690. But I _will_ return it if I have to (which is why I'm bugging everybody with questions - I think wearing gloves to change bits is ridiculous when B/M/D are able to make motors that don't require them)...
Mike
I know Tool Guy has been real, real busy, but I'm hoping he can get back to you on this problem. In the meantime, I can't remember, but did you call PC directly and talk to someone there??
With regard to the "To:" field when you reply in a thread -- the "To:" field, which is automatically filled in, has a drop-down arrow. If you click on that, you get an option to select "ALL" when you want to get to everyone who's posted in the thread.
Good luck! Be persistent!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
>> ... the "To:" field, which is automatically filled in, has a drop-down arrow.
It does if you're using Advanced View. If you're using Basic View it doesn't. You can change Views by clicking on My Forums and then Preferences.
The sparking and friction at the brushes don't really contribute much heat. Most of the heat is comming from the motor windings, and maybe a small amount from the bearings. The motor winding electrical losses create heat which is conducted to the motor armature, which in turn conducts the heat to the shaft. As long as the insulation on the windings and bearings are rated for the temperature rise, the heat in itself isn't necessarily a problem. If the motor starts to smell burned or you see smoke, you've got a serious problem, otherwise I think you just have an annoying one. If Delta/PC isn't worried, you shouldn't be either. After all, they're the ones that have to deal with warranty repairs & disgruntled customers if they have a high failure rate with these routers. My experiences with them lead me to believe they are pretty customer oriented.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled