Can someone enlighten me as to the difference in two products sold in bar form used as honing compound– (1) Flexcut Gold polishing compound, and (2) Micro Fine Honing Compound ?
I have used both in honing my carving gouges, by fastening a leather covered flat wooden block to my workbench surface and then applying one or the other to the leather by rubbing it in vigorously. I can’t tell a lot of difference, except that the Micro Fine (the green stuff) seems a little softer and is easier to rub in. Are they the same basic product in different colors? Which do you prefer? Thanks. Gary
Replies
This in respond to an old thread, but I too can't tell much difference. I bought, I think 3 colors and one was coarse, midium, and fine, but I grab any of them and it works. The yellow is finer grain I think. You might check out web, call them.
Oldtool,
I didn't recieve any replies from my message so I E mailed Woodcraft, which sells both compounds. Their answer was, that there was only slight difference between the two, but that the gold cuts slightly faster; the green was a little finer grit and provided more of a polish.
I think I prefer the Microfine (green); seems easier to rub in.
Anyway, thanks for the reply.
.
I've honed a few gouges and never used the compound. I use dry ceramics, both slips and flat, at the bench and an oil stone for more agressive work.
Lee
Lee,
I have an 8000 grit ceramic stone which I use occassionally, my most commonly used sharpening stone being a white hard Arkansas oil stone. The ceramic seems to take twice as long to produce a similar edge as the Arkansas, the only advantage I can see is that the ceramic is less messy (no oil needed). I have gotten into the habit of, every time I change tools, swiping the edge on the compounded leather, intending to provide more time between sharpening, and I think it does help some. But, even with the use of the honing compound, I still seem to be sharpening (and honing) much more than I should, compared to the time I spend actually carving.
Is there an estimate as to how many minutes an efficient carver should spend, per hour, on tool upkeep compared to actually carving the wood? Is it normal to keep carving until the tool becomes difficult to push thru the wood before resharpening, or better to resharpen when it shows even the slightest amount of dullness?
I have only been carving a couple of years, am self taught, don't carve for money, and my last several projects have been relief carving in mahogany. I also sharpen with no back bevel.
Lee, I was hoping to hear fom you on this topic; I appreciate any advice. Gary
5 Minutes an hour. Really. 5 minutes an hour or about 45 seconds per tool assuming no falls to the floor happened. If you're not putting a microbevel on both sides of your gouges you're cheating yourself and the tool. A microbevel speeds sharpening and forms a fulcrum that a carving tool needs to work properly. With the fulcrum against the worpiece you have control over the depth of cut and can make scooping cuts. Without a microbevel all you can do is pare, paring is slicing in a straight line. Away from the workpiece the fulcrum acts as a chipbreaker relieving pressure on the tool and stress on the wood tissue ahead of the cut.Sharpen with a microbevel, it's important. Imagine trying to scoop ice cream with a knife, you can't do it, all you can do is cut a straight line. A microbevel changes the angle of attack and makes it possible to scoop the ice cream because of the fulcrum.Lee
Lee,
Thanks for the reply. I will try the microbevels you mentioned. I tried that technique when I first began to carve, but apparently had the wrong angle or something because it didn't seem to make any difference, in the cutting or the durability of the edge. I gave it up because it just seemed to be an extra unnecessary step. I will dig out Chris Pye's book on sharpening and review the technique again.
Also thanks to Keith and Stein for the replies. Gary
Lee,
If you were to recommend one book or source on how to sharpen carving gouges, what would it be?If your method of sharpening them is different than that book, is there a description of the technique that you use.Thank you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
mel, Lee has written a lot on this forum, and over on woodcentral. Maybe you would like to go back and read some of those old threads. Here is a link from the archives here.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/main.asp?msg=31114&nav=messages&webtag=fw-knotsIF he doesn't respond, I know that he was having ####problem with his computer crashing for at least the last week.
Keith,
Thanks for the tip. I'll do that. I did read about his computer problems. I appreciate your suggestion.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Well, through the diligence of guys that understand what goes on behind the curtain around here I'm back and with a brand new shiny computer.Books- "Manual of Traditional Woodcarving" by Hasluck and "Woodcarving: The Beginner's Guide" by Wheeler and Hayward. Nora Hall teaches sharpening this way so she might have a video out on the topic.I'll be honest with you, though, and it's not my ego talking. I explain the reasons for micro bevels far better than these listed above. They tell you what to do, I explain why. I teach micro bevels in seminars and demonstrations and it's a simple process in person and the light bulbs go on in nearly every head. It's tough through text but I've made some honest efforts here. Perhaps a clever person can navigate the archives and find some of those old threads, I'll try when time allows.If ever you're near Yellowstone Park look me up, it's a fifteen minute lesson in person.Lee
Lee,
Congratulations on your new computer!
I will get the Wheeler and Hayward book, and I will look up Nora Hall to see if she has any videos, and I will search your past messages for info on microbevels. That should do it.I will be at Big Sky, Montana, about an hour from Bozeman next March. Is that anywhere near you?Thank you very much.
Mel Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
We are 45 minutes from Bozeman, the other way. It would be about 1 3/4 hours from Big Sky.Lee
Here's a copy and paste from on old thread; I was using the term microbezel back then, microbevel is my term de jour now but they are the same thing.A microbezel has two functions whether it's a carving tool or a bench chisel. The point where the microbezel and primary grind converge is called the fulcrum.When the tool is used with the microbezel facing away from the workpiece it acts as a chipbreaker. As a chip is removed it follows the line of the microbezel and curls away from the rest of the tool. This motion generally results in the underside of the chip breaking so it's not exerting much pressure on the tissue in front of the cutting edge, you're less likely to splinter the wood. Getting the chip away from the chisel body also makes the chisel work with less resistance since the pinching motion of the cut is reduced and the chip is clear of the blade.When the microbezel is against the workpiece such as when you're cleaning out a dado or groove, or when you're cleaning out the hole for an inlay you need the microbezel and fulcrum so you can control your depth of cut. During cuts like this the chisel is riding on the fulcrum and you are able to control the depth of cut by raising or lowering the handle. Without a microbezel you don't have a fulcrum and you can't control the depth.You can get any chisel or carving tool very sharp without a microbezel but it's action will be no different than that of a knife and that's the same action as whittling.
Lee,
Excellent. Thank you very much. You are a gentleman and a scholar. I appreciate it. I will give "microbezeling" a shot.
Thank you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
desertmeister, Never apply different honing media on the same strop/applicator. You must use dedicated applicaters.
That's why there are various colors. Also, after using your bench hone/strop, lightly scrape any build up of 'detritus'? and cover the block with a tight fitting lid Steinmetz.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder
Edited 8/9/2006 12:35 pm ET by Steinmetz
One of my best friends back in the early seventies grew up in the electroplating business. they use lots of every color. He gave me a brick of a white compound that I have finally used up, but His depth of knowledge of these matters was far greater than mine, and I thought it worked great for however many years that brick lasted. I have bought some since that was softer and more greasy that I didn't like too well.
On one of my grinding stations, I have a MDF wheel which has an edge shaped somewhat elliptical, or like the nose of a bullet. I keep it charged with the white compound. Of course I work from the back of the grinder on the side of the wheel with the edge turned AWAY from the rotation.
You don't need any fixtures, just bring the tool up so that the heel of the bevel touches first, then rock over onto the bevel, then up about another 5ยบ to get the micro-bezel as Lee describes. It only takes a light touch for a few seconds. I use the shaped edge to get inside the flutes.
Disclaimer: I know MDF was not made for this purpose, but if you scuff it with a coarse paper, it will really hold the compound well, and is hard enough that it doesn't round the edge over like something as soft as leather would tend to do, whether you wanted that or not. After more than 20 years, it is still as good as ever.
Many of you have a lathes that doesn't see much use. You can leave a peice of MDF set up on an extra face-plate for touching up those blades in just seconds.
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