I have been taking my tools in to have them sharpened. I find that the quality of sharpening is not what I see on videos on this web site. I think that I would like to try my hand at it. I am confused about what direction to go. I currently have chisels and planes but may want to do some turning someday. I have been advised to several different methods from Norton combination stones to Shapton stones to sandpaper and stones to a Tormek machine. Please help me find an economical way to get into sharpening but also a way that I wont say down the road I wish I just would have bought….whatever. I have been buying Lie Nielsen planes and have just ordered their bench chisels. Do you advise the use of a sharpening jig? How does the Tormek rate comparred to different stones and how do you change the grit from fine to coarse on the Tormek…..Please help and thank you…Mike
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Replies
I own a Tormek and love it. I use it to sharpen all my plane blades and chisels. I get great results with it and the stone dresser that changes the stone's grit from fine to coarse actually works. I can slice a piece of paper with my chisels like a samuri sword. The only real downfall of the machine is that I'm unable to get a slight camber to the edges of my plane blades so the corners don't dig into the workpiece. I think some people refer to it as a "plane shelf" or something like that.
mike
Is it easy to polish the back of your chisel on the Tormek?
Edited 8/1/2007 2:31 pm ET by MP72
yeah it's not too hard. you just hold it on the side of the stone for a minute or two. Depending on what tolerance of flatness you want your chisel to be, you may want to invest in a good bench stone but the Tormek works fine for me.
Mike,
Not to steer you away from the Tormek, but just to let you know of some other options:
Plate glass and honing paper (microfine sandpaper) - Very economical. I get my paper from Lee Valley. Some people hone free-hand, others use a jig to hold the blade at a fixed angle. I use a jig. I find this way suits me best, as I can glue a different grit onto seperate pieces of glass and go through all the grits in succession.
Japanese water stones would be the next step up (expense-wise). Woodcraft has a big selection of Norton double sided (different grit each side) stones on sale this month. These put a great edge on tools, but need to be flattened periodically (not very hard to do)
Another preferred method is diamond stones, with or without a jig to hold the blades. I think a DMT double sided diamond hone is about $110 for the largest size, with a different grit on each side. Properly cared for, this should last a lifetime (or at least many years)
I would personally try one of the other methods before dropping the money on the Tormek. Not that I don't think it's worth it, I would just rather spend my money on tools than sharpening supplies. Later on if you get into turning, the Tormek might be an upgrade worth looking at. But for plane blades and chisels, the other methods will get you by just fine.
My $.02
Lee
Before anyone tries to talk you in to hundreds of dollars in jigs... Google "Scary Sharp" and give it a try. This is by far the cheapest way to get in to sharpening.
I use a combo of the tormek and water stones... but sandpaper is way cheaper and it is a great place to start the learning process. You can get us to 2000 grit at your local auto parts store.
Cheers!
Sharpening fo rthe most part is personal, comparable to a religion. The Torkmek is a fine tool, and it has it's fans. But it is expenisive, and in my opinion unecessary.
I think the sandpaper method is probably the most economical, and will give you the best insight into sharpening. You can always upgrade to another method, and not feel bad about your $20 investment.
I use water stones, but really only because I'm biased against sandpaper (It's just not very elegant!). I do use the LV MKII jig.
Hi Mike,
I like the control that the Scary Sharp (sandpaper on glass) method gives me. I don't have to worry about overheating the iron and I can control the mess. As another suggests, it's kind of a personal choice.
A few plates of glass, a flat surface, spary adhesive for the sanpaper grits, and you're there. I lay out the plates on my outfeed table starting with coarse and work my way up. Put the finer grits on the other side, flip the glass plates, and work on up.
Touch them up with a little valve grinding compound on glass and I'm done.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
MP72,
I have it, and use it, all -- from the Tormek (expensive) to "Scarey Sharp" (cheap, but highly effective).
IMHO, based on sharpening a lot of cutting edges is:
1. The Tormek is great, but expensive. I use it most frequently when I am taking an old chisel, plane or such that has been abused, chipped, or needs to have serious work to restore the cutting angle, square the cutting edge, or some other serious remove-a-lot-of-metal-fast task.
2. If the angle is proper; square, or almost; then Scarey Sharp method works fantastically. I use a piece of scrap, thick glass I got cheap at a local glass shop. You can even use Scarey Sharp if you are starting with a problematic cutting edge, but it will simply take longer.
3. You can polish the back of chisel to the point that it reflects as clear as a mirror using the Scarey Sharp method. Much, much, much better than the side of the Tormek wheel.
Knowing what I know now, I am not sure I would buy a Tormek for flat cutting surfaces like planes and chisels. For curved edges like lathe tools -- I almost couldn't imagine doing it without a Tormek. (Now, I can imagine a good turner would write how easy it is to do with something much cheaper, but ....)
I have, and have used, waterstones. I will continue to use the ones I have until they wear out. But, once I learned Scarey Sharp I almost don't have a need for the waterstones.
Just my experience.
Alan - planesaw
Hi Mike
You are wanting to start at an advanced level with the planes and sharpening system you mention. Generally a novice is better started on more basic equipment as a learning experience, one that prepares a woodworker for the future.
The LN planes will be great. Buy a cheap vintage Stanley to play with. This will improve your setting up with the LNs.
The Tormek can be great down the track, but I would get down to basics first before using one (if I EVER used one - I prefer Shapton waterstones and diamond paste, but there are SO MANY ways to skin a cat).
I wrote the following piece for a forum, but recognise that it needs a bit more before I post it as an article. Still, you and others wil hopefully find it useful... the aim here is CHEAP and SIMPLE! ...................
I had a visitor today in the form of Mike, a primary school teacher, who was setting up a woodworking program for his kids at school. What is exemplary, he is doing this on his own initiative and out of his own pocket. Several Perth members of the Ubeaut woodworking forum had donated planes. When I heard of Mike’s wonderful effort I felt that the least I could do would be to hone the blades, tune the planes and ready them for use.
Of course, little did I know that this involved 8 of the most abused and rejected planes – four #4s and four block planes – all cruddy and warped. But thanks to the miracle of electricity and a large belt sander, all soles were flattened, all blades and chip breakers derusted, blades ground and honed to razor edges, and planes tuned to take fine shavings. And in just 3 hours!
I anticipated that Mike would need some strategy to maintain the sharp edges. So I came up with “The 10 cent Sharpening System”, which actually cost me nothing since I just used a few scraps lying around. I consider that this is really quite a serious sharpening system and others might enjoy using it since it is very compact and works very well. Mike timed me taking a blade with a rough primary bevel to a razor edge in under 30 seconds.
None of this system is original. Just my adaptation in this package, which I consider perfect for thin Stanley blades.
At this price we are talking Scary Sharp, that is, the use of wet-and-dry sandpaper as the sharpening medium. I only used only one grit – 600 – but I later made provision for lower grits as well. In addition to the 600 grit W&D, I used .5 micron Veritas green rouge.
For a honing guide, the best at the price (5 cents) is the jig designed by Brent Beach. No, just kidding. This is a cracker of a jig at any price as used in this type of system.
Here is Brent’s jig.
Where Brent uses a glass substratum, I built Mike's from an offcut of MDF. The honing guide was just a block of Tasmanian Oak. I am not sure of Brent’s dimensions here, but I suspect that the one I built is lower (I used the same height as a Eclipse guide). The advantage is that the set up is more compact. The disadvantage is that the backbevel angle is 10 degrees, so micro backbevels need to be done as per David Charlesworth’s “Ruler Trick”.
So what is the system?
There are three parts: the honing guide, the honing board, and the guide angle set.
The honing guide
My Brent Beach copy:
View Image
The honing board
What we have here is 600 grit W&D contact glued to the MDF. Later I realized that a better system would be to simply have two clamps (using bolts and butterfly nuts) so that sandpaper strips could be changed out.
The far end is a section with Veritas green rouge – just “scribble” this on the MDF.
In between the two, the MDF surface is given a coat of wax to reduce friction.
View Image
The Guide angle set
There are two elements here.
Firstly, the depth of projection is set for 25- and 30 degrees. This also automatically squares the blade in the guide.
View Image
Secondly, here I have drawn in lines for microbevels – just shorten the projection to these lines. Later (again!) I realized that a better system would be to just use a shim (one for each reduction) placed against the fence to set the depth.
View Image
Method
Most know this process well.
1. Grind a primary bevel (I used 120 grit on a belt sander in this project).
2. Hone a secondary bevel on the 600 grit.
3. Hone this further on the green rouge.
4. Use the Ruler Trick to remove the wire edge (a particular boon on non-flat backs of blades).
5. Items 2-4 took about 30 seconds.
In summary, this system is optimized for thin Stanley blades. There are many ways to skin a cat – but none cheaper or simpler for this purpose.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Tools & Reviews at http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/index.asp
Hi Derek,Very good system for beginers, love it.I use a mix of diamond and japanees water stones.Greetings Bernhard.
MIke,
I have found the best way to get sharpening done.
For all time, woodworkers have taken on assistants and apprentices. MOst of us who are only hobbyists can only afford to have a few shop assistants. I recommend that you hire one assistant to take care of sharpening chores. Since this is kinda boring, he or she will probably quit after a few years, unless the pay is really good. So you'll have to find a replacement every three years or so.
If you are more affluent, as are many of the people on Knots, you can have someone from Lie Nielsen fly in every few weeks to touch up your chisels and planes. But that is more expensive than just getting a part time assistant.
Indeed with enough assistants, you can get down to the designing and managing, and let the peons do the work. I believe that is what "ultimate woodworking" is all about. I expect to see "ultimate woodworking" take over on TV as the next popular sport. It is a combination of "ultimate fighting" and "Iron Chef". IT will be more popular and exciting than the current reality shows such.
If you don't find the ideas in my email to be useful, and I doubt that you will, then pay attention to Derek Cohen. He knows what he is talking about. Of course, on Knots, one gets lots of different pieces of advice, and for the newbie, it is hard to tell which is the one which contains real wisdom. After a while, it will be easy. For now, you can learn to distinguish between BS and wisdom by reading Derek's response and mine. If you can't tell which one is wisdom and which is BS, you should not be involved in woodwork, because it is too dangerous.
Wait a second. A thought just occurred to me. This is the third time this year that this has happened. I remember a person once said:
"Cocaine is God's way of letting you know that you have too much money."
In woodworking, this statement becomes:
"Lie Nielsen tools are God's way of letting you know that you have too much money."
Actually, I don't believe that. I believe that their tools are of the highest quality. However, generally a beginning violinist doesnt buy a Stradivarius. One waits until one has taken lessons for over a month before spending $10M on a fiddle. I am glad that you have the wisdom and money to buy LN, but I recommend that you practice sharpening on some old chisels and plane blades that you buy at garage sales.
By the way, in the future, when you see messages like mine, don't take the time to read them. Read Derek's instead.
Nice to meet you.
Don't take sharpening too seriously. If it becomes a religion, you have missed the point. The point in woodwork is to build furniture, not to send money to Norton, Shapton and DMT
Enjoy.
Mel
PS if you find that after buying lots of expensive tools, that you have money left over, please send it to me in an unmarked envelope.
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hilarious. Great advice, all. I would like to offer an opposing viewpoint on this last point.
I am also trying to build my skills and toolset. I have made my share of mistakes, damaged tools, ruined some wood, all on my way to better knowledge and understanding.
Despite the fact that I am still climbing the learning curve, I've decided that I need to change my strategy regarding tool quality and expense. The reasons for this are many. The biggest for me are these:
Isn't it better to have a few great tools than a bunch of mediocre ones?
As a hobbyist, I find it very hard to justify replacing a tool that works, however poorly, with one that performs the same function, however well. For example, I have a cheap, barely functional table saw. But whenever I run up on my next $500-1000, it won't be to replace it; it gets the basics done. Instead I am going for a good band saw.
Then there is the whole enjoyment/motivation or should I say frustration/demotivation factor. If you add up all the frustration I had trying to get my cheap Stanley block plane to cut effectively. Compare that to the sheer joy I got from the first time I used my LN, it more than offset the cost differential.
And how much better were my cuts when I replaced my cheapo crap fence with a Biesemeyer? It literally blew my mind that I could set my fence to 8 7/8" and my cut would come out 8 7/8"!! Same when I replaced my cheap jigsaw with the latest Bosch. My cuts were easily 5 times faster. Again, it blew my mind.
I guess all this is to say, practice and experience certainly mean more to the quality of your output, particularly at the higher levels. But quality tools have had a truly transformative effect on my interest, speed, accuracy, and the sheer joy I get from woodwork.
I can't run out and buy a shopful of the best tools money can buy, in fact, I will have to wait a month or so before I buy my next tool, but I will definitely look for quality.
At least that's where I am today.
I really appreciate all the advice that I have been getting and if anyone else has more to offer please continue to chime in. I have been doing woodworking for many years and I love to be able to come to others for their advice.I am a complete newbie at sharpening. Sometimes in the Woodcrafts and Rocklers it becomes confusing about the direction that I want to head. I always try to buy the best tools that I can afford but they have to be good tools not just expensive tools. The reason that the Tormek came about because in order to buy the Shapton stones and their lapping plate I was looking at more than the Tormek. I also wanted you guys to know what hardness I was looking at sharpening and most of my tools are L-N. I would never practice on those and will instead be practicing on my set of Marples. I love my Marples I just like using L-N when I can. I certainly don't mind messing up my Marples but would be a little upset if I messed up my L-N.
Mel I just wanted you to know that I thought about asking my assistant about doing the sharpening but as my wife doesn't know about all my L-N she might get upset about having to sharpen them all. Then I thought she might use her newly learned sharpening skills on me so I quickly scratched that off the list. I called Mr. Lie Nielsen and so far he has not returned my call. I must not be important to him. Thanks for the laughs Mel.
I am interested in scary sharp and would like to know is 2000 grit the stopping point. I also would like to know that if I used scary sharp up to 2000 and then used an 8000 Shapton would it get better or will it be just fine at 2000 grit sand paper?
Derek thanks for all the effort....MikeEdited 8/2/2007 12:59 pm ET by MP72
Edited 8/2/2007 8:39 pm ET by MP72
MP,
<< The reason that the Tormek came about because in order to buy the Shapton stones and their lapping plate I was looking at more than the Tormek.>>
No need to buy Shapton's lapping plate, even if you decide to buy Shapton's stones. Any flat surface with some abrasiveness will flatten your stone: the next lower grit stone, 220 grit sand paper on a piece of MDF/glass, even a cinder block or your drive way. (Of course, more subtle -- say, another water stone -- removes less stone material in flattening it than, say the cinder block, but both work; absolutely no need to spend dineros grandes on any brand of lapping plate, unless you want to.) A perfectly usable water flattening stone can be purchased for about $17 +/- from Japan Woodworker, and will last for years.
Norton's water stones are very good quality, and are generally harder than most of their competitors' stones, so they will dish more slowly. King, as another example, also makes high quality water stones for substantially less $$ than Shapton or Norton, but they are softer and dish a bit quicker. Reality is that water stones are fairly high maintenance, but will do a superb job of sharpening.
Other sharpening methods work equally well; the important thing is the edge, not how you got it. Sharpening doesn't have to be expensive and doesn't require a bunch of gadgets. As Bob Smalser suggested above, learn how to freehand sharpen. The learning curve is maybe a bit steeper at the front end, but once you have learned, you can spend your money on wood instead of sharpening gadgets.... Soooo....my advice to you also would be to pick a method and get good at it; it will serve you well for the rest of your woodworking career.
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"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."
-- A.C. Clarke
MP72,
I love these discussions because I'm still evolving on this sharpening thing and they help a lot. Firstly, I'm a visual learner and David Charlesworth's DVDs were an incredible learning experience. Second, the little system I've put together gets everything very sharp the first time but the primary purpose of the design is to facilitate the re-honing while working with as little fuss as possible.
I use a combination of sandpaper, shaptons and green rouge. Most of Derek's ideas I've used (thanks Derek) and I'm trying to move toward Bob Smalser..do it by hand. A few months ago I had a gift certificate so I treated myself to the MKII.
Basically, I differentiate chisels from plane blades in the sense that I want the plane blades to be perfect, I'm less concerned with chisel perfection.
The system consists of a bench hook with a 1/4" thick, 12x12 piece of granite on top and next to the granite a carved out rectangle to accommodate the shaptons, such that, the shapton is flush with the granite. The process begins with 220, 600 W&D on the granite...a few drops of water hold paper in place. I then move to the 1000, 5000 shaptons and finish up with green rouge on 1/4" hard board. I believe the rouge is equal to the 8000 shapton. On plane blades I'll do a micro bevel at 35 degree and the ruler trick. Chisels get no micro.
All this is done while in the MKII holder. I then remove the holder and lightly strop on leather. Re-honing, I start with the 1000 shapton and move upward...takes about a minute. I keep a bottle of water nearby because it takes only a few drops on the sandpaper or shaptons to keep things cutting and clean. Every once and a while I put pencil marks on the shapton and rub it on the 220 paper till marks are gone.
Over the past several months I've been sharpening my tools using a east/west motion as opposed to the traditional north/south motion. It seems to be a bit easier for me to shift to freehand sharpening with this motion...will see. Good luck with your pursuit.
You go east/west while clamped in the MKII?
Gettin Ther,
Yes, while in the MKII holder I work the length of the cutting edge on the paper/stone/hardboard. I noticed that when I received my LN the blade had been sharpened that way...along the length of the edge, so I continued to do so. I believe it's easier to control the slope, easier to insure squareness of the blade to the sharpening surface and, most important, negates any negative effects of an uneven stone surface. The technique is more applicable to the plane blade and wider chisels.
I noticed that when I received my LN the blade had been sharpened that way...along the length of the edge, so I continued to do so.
If you are sliding the LV Guide sideways (for side sharpening), and the wheel is on the sharpening media (e.g. sandpaper), you will wear away the wheel since its movement is restricted. Is that what you are doing?
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek,
I keep the wheel of the mkII on the bare granite...when using sandpaper and shaptons.
Edited 8/7/2007 4:37 pm ET by BG
I again want to thank everyone for their help. I decided to go with the scary sharp method. I did buy a Veritas MK.11 and the granite plate from Woodcraft( on sale for $20). I used paper all the way to 2000 grit. I am happy as heck with the results. I dont fear the idea of sharpening any more.
I will buy the Shapton 5000 and 8000 stones next week. I just want to make sure about lapping the stones. It sounds like I can I can just use my Granite as the surface to do this and that sound great to me. I like the idea of spending less money on stuff that I dont need. Should I do the lapping with 220 grit sandpaper or does it make sense to do it with 600 or 800 grit so as not to ware the stone out faster. I hope that doesnt sound stupid. I am sure you dont want to go to high.
I used just the pull stroke when sharpening but is it Ok to use the push stroke also(would save a little time). I will eventually learn the free hand method because I believe that it would go faster and a litle more easy.I thank you all. Mike
220 wet/dry on a flat surface works well for flattening stones - any finer is just exercise (imho) :0)
Push, pull, zig-zag, etc will all get you there. I suggest a pull stroke when you get to the last grit... only because there is a small risk that you could dig in to the stone (on a push stroke) and damage the edge.
Have fun and enjoy the learning process. Your tools are sharp when you see blood and you don't know where it came from.
Derek and other ScarySharpeners,
Great info, Derek. Two follow-ups/clarifications:
Number of bevelsI noticed Brent Beach (FWW #184, Sharpen with Sandpaper) recommends a 25 degree primary bevel, then a succession of 3 microbevels at 30, 31, and 32 degrees. It appears that your Guide Angle Set allows for all of these angles but your method calls for fewer. Could you clarify, what angles do you recommend in each step (1-3 of your method above)?
Ruler TrickDo you do the ruler trick on the 600 grit or the green rouge?
Thin v. Thick
" . . . this system is optimized for thin Stanley blades"
What would you change for thicker blades? Would you recommend this same progression for chisels?
Thanks again for your helpful advice.
Danny
Hi Danny
I must emphasise that their is no single way to do anything. Especially in sharpening, there are many ways to skin the cat. What drives me in this endeavour is to get honing out of the way as fast as possible. It is one of my least favourite activities. My interest in it is really to find the best way to avoid it!
One rule that I will offer categorically is that the back of the blade and the final bevel must be honed to the same level. For example, if you hone the last microbevel at 2000 grit W&D (or 8000 grit waterstone), then the back of the blade must be treated the same way. You are only as sharp/smooth as your coarsest grit.
With regard the Ruler Trick, I tend to avoid its use - but this is because of the way I prefer to hone blades, not because it is a poor technique. It is a great idea in the appropriate context.
My preference is not to do Scary Sharp but use waterstones (Shaptons 1000, 5000 and 8000). I also prefer to hone freehand, not with a guide, because I am a lazy bugger. But, because I want to freehand blades (where I can - there are exceptions), my strategy is to hollow grind blades (where I can) so that I can rest the bevel face on the two sides of the hollow. A microbevel is created from the hollow grind process.
Because I am freehanding blades, I am able to re-fresh edges on a couple of strops as I work. This works better if I do not have a micro-backbevel, hence I avoid the Ruler Trick. I fear that trying to refresh the micro-backbevel freehand will just dub the edge.
There are times when I use a honing guide to create and maintain a flat bevel face, such as with skew blades or shoulder plane blades. There are times when I use the Ruler Trick, such as when the backs of blades are out of flat.
When I do use a microbevel, more typically with high angle bevel up planes, it is enough to create the primary bevel on a coarse grit (say 240 grit W&D or 1200 waterstone, or 120 grit on a belt sander), then add a microbevel at the desired angle with an intermediary grit (say 600 W&D) to flatten off the coarse serrations. It depends on the coarseness of the primary bevel, but if this is about 240 grit W&D taken to the edge, then we are only talking of a microbevel about .5mm wide, and this can be easily polished on green rouge (.5 microns = 2500 W&D or about 9000 grit waterstone). And it only takes a few strokes on each medium to do this - therefore more microbevels are unnecesssary to get to the final grit. Remember, the final edge must involve two sides of identical grit. If both are high grits, then where they meet will have very fine serrations (= sharp/smooth). It is not the size of this bevel that counts, rather its smoothness.
Regards from Perth
Derek
GT,
I read Derek's response to you. Derek seems only interested in getting his tools sharp enough cut well. He has not yet come to the real understanding of what EXTREME SHARPENING is all about -- that is - sharpening for its own sake. Remember that woodworking is only an excuse to get into the field of sharpening. Now Brent Beach -- he understands the need to sharpen for its own sake. But he does not go far enough. he only uses three microbevels. I figured that if three is good, then six must be better. If you take that a step farther, then maybe 12 would be even better. IF you keep adding more and more microbevels, you have achieved a perfectly rounded edge. Now this is useless for woodworking, and it would take years to do a single plane blade right, but think of the satisfaction when you finished. Forget about woodwork. Let's ask Knots to add another entire website devoted to extreme sharpening. We don't need practical people like Derek hanging around. Maybe we can get sponsorship from Shapton. Now that their 32,000 ceramic/waterstone is out, it is only a matter of time before the 64,000 comes out.Indeed for those who really want to use tens or hundreds of microbevels, or for those who want to take to the extreme,and just round the edge (I call this "super-dubbing"), we should be able to adapt a CNC machine for use as a honing jig. There is a way to take EXTREME SHARPENING even further. I have seen absolutely no chatter about putting microbevels on serrated knives. Now that would take a keen eye, a steady hand, and a sick mind. Enjoy.
Mel
PS - all seriousness aside, woodworkers have done wonderful work with tools honed with a #### stone and a Translucent White (or Black) Hard Arkansas. You really don't have to worry about them dishing, unless you sharpen for hours a day (which is highly unlikely). If you really want to go just a tad farther, then go from the Hard Arkansas to a leather strop with green compound. My ideas on sharpening (which are based on far less experience and expertise than Derek's) are found in the sharpening section of
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
The only place I disagree with them is that they use a leather strop with no honing compound.
Using a leather strop can do more damage than good. If the leather is too soft, or if you lift up the blade, you will dub the good that you did on the Hard Arkansas stone. Pardon the weak attempt at humor in my response. The goal of sharpening, is as Derek points out, to get back to woodworking as soon as possible, and with as little fuss as possible. The fine Shapton ceramic/waterstones are much less "fussy" than the older waterstones. You only need to spritz them, and not keep them soaked. Also they don't feel as "soft" as waterstones, and they don't need as much flattening. So IMHO, they are a big step forward. But I am a throwback to earlier times. I like the feel of a White translucent Hard Arkansas oilstone. It hones a bit more slowly but that reduces risk, and in my life, one minute here or there is not a big thing. There are a number of good woodworkers who have been using diamondstones for a long time. Diamonds are forever. You don't have to flatten them. I have heard of one wearing out, but it was used in a community workshop. DMT has a new "extra extra fine" diamond stone which I want to try, because I used a friend's "extra fine", and I didn't find that fine enough. It would be nice to have stones that didn't need flattening and only used water. If I had to make a prediction, I would say that in 10 years, diamondstones will be the most used approach.Learn to not use a jig, except as Derek says, for a change in the primary bevel.Make yourself a nice leather hone. Use thin hard leather and put it on MDF, and put some green compound on it. I recommend the smooth side up. The compound is a half a micron, and that is pretty good!!!Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Derek and Mel,
Thanks so much for your advice. Mel, your humor is always appreciated.
Danny
Very Funny!I esp. like the part about multiple micro-bevels eventually leading to a round edge.peace, mark
"My ideas on sharpening (which are based on far less experience and expertise than Derek's) are found in the sharpening section of
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
The only place I disagree with them is that they use a leather strop with no honing compound.
Using a leather strop can do more damage than good. If the leather is too soft, or if you lift up the blade, you will dub the good that you did on the Hard Arkansas stone."I would agree - but the solution is to use a proper strop and develop good technique so that you don't lift up the blade. Both tasks are easy to accomplish and will result in a sharper blade than one fresh from a finishing stone.Joel
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
Joel
Good to hear from you. I tell a lot of people about your website, and about your section on sharpening. It is a great explanation, and it contains no BS.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Thanks,
joelJoel
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
I will second the honing section of the museum in http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com . I had the great good fortune to take classes for a while with Maurice Fraser, the author of that piece. A wonderful teacher, he had his class, many of them absolute beginners (ie. some had never seen a chisel) capable of reaching a "shaving sharp" edge in the first lesson of his course. The second class session began instruction on cutting dovetails by hand.
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A 45-year collection of oil stones. Coarse and medium carborundum, soft, medium, hard and black novaculite (Arkansas) stones, and various medium and fine carborundum, India and novaculite carving slips.
The two thinner novaculite stones have been in my family since the 1930's, and need flattening once or twice a generation. They do just as good a job as water stones, but remain flat significantly longer, and the harder novaculite stones never need flattening at all.
They are expensive. Today Hall's Proedge, a knifemaker supplier, makes some of the best.
I strongly recommend learning to sharpen sans jigs, power sharpeners and other training wheels. If you can't see the flat you made on a cutting edge bevel, then adjust your hold for the next strokes to bring that flat closer to what you intend, how do you ever expect to develop the same control over cutting tools on wood? Freehand sharpening is part of and directly related to your hand tool skills, and doing it the way your Grandfather did may not be fashionable, but it's important.
Here's how I do it under Basic Sharpening:
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl#smalser
“When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work as our descendants will thank us for; and let us think...that a time is to come when those (heirlooms) will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, ‘See! This our father did for us.’ “ --John Ruskin.
Edited 8/16/2007 4:01 pm by BobSmalser
One additional option you might want to consider is the "WorkSharp" unit available from Rockler. - $200.00.
I bought one and got excelent results - front and back of chisels and plane irons. It is a dry system and produces preselected blade angles.
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
If you intend to stay in this game, think ahead 30 years.
Begin with Derek's elementary sandpaper and shop-made jig method, as making things for yourself instead of buying is always the best practice.
Then as you progress, gradually wean yourself of the jigs and learn to freehand. There's no need for an expensive machine to sharpen with once you gain that skill, you can sharpen any tool any where in a fraction of the time it takes to set up a machine, and holding a consistant angle and seeing and correcting are fundamental hand tool skills applicable to anything you do in woodworking. If you can't see the flat you made with the stone on a cutting edge and correct it on the next pass, then how do you ever expect to master paring using a chisel, adze or slick?
Sandpaper is expensive if you're talking about doing this for a lifetime, so gradually buy yourself some stones as you progress. Water stones cut fast but hollow easily and eventually wear out. Novaculite stones are more expensive, don't cut quite as fast, but remain flat longer and last for generations.
There's an article or two here I wrote on freehand sharpening, free for your personal use:
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl#smalser
“When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work as our descendants will thank us for; and let us think...that a time is to come when those (heirlooms) will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, ‘See! This our father did for us.’ “ --John Ruskin.
Edited 8/2/2007 11:06 am by BobSmalser
I must confess, I did not read all of the posts here, but I did skim over them. So this might have already been covered.
One very important thing to remember is unless your blade is chipped or damaged, you don't need to go back to a stone or Tormek or other machine to get that fine edge back. I have a hard felt wheel on a grinder that I charge with polishing compound, and I regularly touch up all my blades with this. It keeps all the edges razor sharp, and I have not Put a blade or iron on a stone in quite some time.
Check out woodcraft to pick up a felt wheel. I prefer the hard variety. Some like the medium version, others the soft. But keeping your blades polished on a felt wheel is so easy you cannot go wrong considering the minimal cost of the purchase.
I carry a high-carbon steel pocket knife, and it is as sharp as any razor blade you will ever find. I keep that edge with a felt wheel. Give it a try, you'll be shocked and amazed.
Jeff
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