Any ideas on how I can rescue this desk project? I used oak veneer plywood from Home Depot, but after staining with dark walnut Minwax gel stain I see tiny white flecks throughout most of the dark veins of the wood. These areas won’t stain no matter how long I leave the stain on. I think it is the glue from the veneering that squeezed through the veins in manufacturing, now visible because I oversanded. I have read about glazing and toning and shading, etc but have never done this. I was planning to use urethane for this fold-down desk, but would be willing to use anything that can hide this. Thanks.
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Replies
Rick,
If adhesive oozed up through the open grain oak, there is nothing you're going to be able to do to get it to stain. You didn't over-sand. Over-sanding would reveal bare substrate in wider areas than deep grain/pore lines.
The problem you describe is, unfortunately, a consequence of the manufacturing process - using extremely thin veneers, especially in open-grained species. And oak has huge pores.
Welcome to low-quality material.
Rich
Welcome to low-quality material..
I will not mention my local hardwood supplier. Nice folks and I would not suppose they rip me off on purpose Well, over the normal take for what I purchase. :>) I think they at least try to give you nice stuff.
I have purchased sheets of 4X8 figured woode that had the same problem..
I have no answer! Just telling you .. YOU ARE NOT ALONE!
Now if these suppliers would just start using hot hide glue to stick the veneer down, we would be home free.Yeah, I can see that happening.Rich
Sorry, but the very mention of Home Depot “hardwood” ply means trouble. You could paint it, but that is about all I can think of.
I don't know if it is possible but you might look into gluing a new layer of veneer over the top and staining again.
Chuck
There is a solution..... if you have the time. Very often when laying up my own veneered panels, there will be some glue bleed through that needs to be "fixed." You can quite easily "spot" any light area by using a variety of touch-up colors. I mostly use Transtint dye in shellac for touching up the things you describe. These are transparent colors so may or may not work for what you have. Next up on the difficult scale (its actually a big jump up) is to go to opaque colors. I have a selection of Mixol brand that will also mix into shellac. Using the opaque colors is harder because you are then painting... every mark becomes visable so you will be doing all your own graining, etc. If I were you, I'd start with the transparents.
If there are a lot of these spots, it will take a lot of patience. Use a very fine brush. I use a variety of sizes down to 5/0. The shellac is good because it dries so fast and it's compatible with most anything else. Use dewaxed shellac. The shellac also has the advantage of being easily cleaned off using alcohol... in case of error. (Could that happen?)
This retouching skill has a steep learning curve but is vital to furthering one's finishing education. When done well, with colors matching and not overdone, no one will ever find the spotted areas. After touching up, apply more top coats of your finish. Don't sand through all your painstaking work!
Sapwood, I'm not sure I have the patience for this as it involves some pretty sizable areas. I will file the technique away however, as it sounds useful. It brings up a question I have had however. Can you use de-waxed shellac to seal open pore wood, then after using an oil-based stain, can you cover it all with something more durable, like a urethane?
Edited 11/9/2008 10:45 am ET by Rickboat
"Can you use de-waxed shellac to seal open pore wood, then after using an oil-based stain, can you cover it all with something more durable, like a urethane? "I hope so because I did just that very thing on a table top I just made. A shellaced surface doesn't take up nearly the amount of stain as does raw wood, but it will accept enough to sort of tone it. That is exactly what I needed to do. Your problem seems to be more severe.
Fill the pores of the open grained oak with a grain filler, and tint it to match your stain with transtint dye.
This may or may not work, depending on your color choice, but it surely worth a go vs. what you presently are stuck with.
Jeff
Edited 11/8/2008 5:47 pm ET by JeffHeath
Sapwood gave you a way to go , but also you may want to think about doing a glazed finish , it will become as has been said less transparent and more opaque in order to cover the undesirable spots .This has been happening for years it is not only a particular source but every now and then the glue will calendar through the veneer .
dusty
Since you already have the problem there is not much to lose by trying the "glaze" process.
You did not say, but there may be enough 'void' at the white spots to trap some glaze. Be very careful when wiping off the excess after the 10-15 minute dry time so there is the opportunity for glaze to be trapped - and, hopefully, mask the white spots.
The glaze needs to be protected with a finish coat(s) of some sort. Good Luck
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Is there a specific glaze you might suggest? Does it go directly on the gelstain or do you use an initial topcoat and use the glaze between layers of topcoating?
I use "Nu-Glaze, Heavy bodied, pigmented glaze" from Liberon Supply. The stuff has lots of pigment that settles out, so you will have to stir thoroughly to get a smooth consistency. Apply it over a wash coat of sealer.I misspoke - it should "dry' 3-5 minutes before you wipe it off to the look you want. It then requires top coats to protect the glaze. Finally, if you wish, you can spray on a toner to get the final look you are after.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Rick,
As far as remedies are concerned you've already got some good advise, although it's obvious that there's no easy fix. In the future -
If you're planning to use a dark stain on a porous wood like oak, then the veneer should be glued using a colored adhesive in the first place. It is almost unavoidable that some adhesive will bleed through the pores, but if it is tinted to blend with the final finish it becomes unobtrusive. I know this precludes buying veneered sheets from HD, but it's the right way to go about it.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
You can use Behlen Pore-O-Pac to fill the pores. You can buy it already tinted to match your wood species or tint it yourself with artist's tints... then lightly sand and finish. Of course if you've sanded so much that the veneer glue in the pores is level with the wood surface, this won't work.
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