I made a desk for a man out of kiln dried Walnut. I had been getting wood from a man for some time and never had a problem with any of it. I got an e-mail from the guy with the desk and he had noticed sawdust on the desk. On closer inspection there were small holes in the wood where the sawdust was. He said they looked like very small drilled holes. Could these be termites? How would I know what they are and how to detect them and how do I get rid of them?
Please help with anything you can suggest.
thanks
tony
Replies
Small holes and powder/sawdust
Tony,
They are more likely powderpost beetles. Termites prefer damp, dark places. It's possible that the wood was infected before you used it. They don't usually attack finished wood. The usual remedy is to cut away the infected part and discard it away from your wood supply, but you can't do that now. PP beetles are slow moving. They burrow into the edge and then tunnel parallel to the edge. One old trick that antiques appraisers use is to stick the straightened leg of a paper clip in some of the holes. If the paper clip only goes in a short distance, perhaps < 1/8", it is very likely PP beetles. The holes result from the mature beetle eating its way out. You could try injecting a poison (methanol, turps, mineral spirits, finishing liquid) into the holes, plug them with wax and return for inspection later. If you want to do this in your shop, be careful to do it where you can control them, e;g garage on a tarp without wood too close by.
Oz
The real question I would have is if it is you would you replace the desk for this gentleman? I would like to keep a good relationship with my clients and this could destroy that. Also if not dealt with will these things spread throughout his house? This is one of the things he is worried about. From what I can tell from his e-mails there is only one hole that has appeared so far. He has sprayed some bug killer into it and it has not come back but I don't know when he first noticed it.
Tony,
There are a number of insects that can cause the conditions you describe. If you go to this link http://www.livingwithbugs.com/PDFiles/wood_dam.pdf you can get a better idea of what you're dealing with. Good luck.
Jim
how long has he had the desk? . the pp may have also came from his enviroment
ron
He has had the desk since last September. The beatles just started showing up this weekend. What are the chances that they were already in the wood when it was delivered apposed to getting in at his place?
Powder post beetles
Tony,
News is not good. According to this website, it can be a long time. This is the end of my knowledge. Good luck.
Oz
http://pestcontrolcanada.com/powder_post_beetles.htm
Powder post beetles
Kiln drying would kill any wood boring insect in any stage (egg, larva, etc.). They could have infested any time after drying - at the lumber supplier, at Tony's place or even at the client's place if there are any internal parts that are not finished. It is important to examine the piece and determine where and how much damage. They are also partial to sap wood. Maybe the part can be replaced.
Tony, you've got 2 entirely different issues here. First, what's eating the wood and how did it get there. Second is customer relations.
It's my guess that you've got powderpost beetles, and it's quite possible that they infested the wood in the 6 months since it was delivered to the client. There are a number of chemical ways to treat them successfully - from dripping the insecticide Lindane into their holes up to professional fumigation with gas. It's one of those things that sooner or later happens to every woodworker.
From the customer's point of view, you should go get the desk and do whatever's necessary in your shop, not in his home. If parts need replacing, then just bite the bullet and do it. I would strongly suggest that you explain to the client that you are in no way assuming responsibility for the infestation, but that you will resolve the issue in any case. It's an impossible mission for anyone to prove where the beetles came from now; but as far as your client is concerned it doesn't matter. If you deal with this effectively you will have cemented the client's loyalty forever.
I have already picked up the desk and have told the client that it will be replaced. You are right, customer relations is second, My own integrity is first! I got the wood from a man that I have gotten wood from for years and he has always been reliable. The real problem is that the wood I got was from Michigan. He would sell me kiln dried walnut for 2.00 per foot and has for years. When I got back home I was short for the desk because of design changes from the client and got wood for the top from a local source. Therein lies the rest of the problem.
I need a couple more answers though. What are the chances that my shop was infected with them? I had a couple of small scraps left over and saved them with the rest of some oak that I have. How would I know if my shop got infected? What is the best way to treat the wood that I have if it is. I also picked up over 100 bd ft of curly maple from this guy for 1.50 per ft when I got the walnut. My delima gets worse at I think about it. Also my shop is in my garage and I have no place else to put the desk. Right now I have left it in my Van until I get some answers. Can I bring the desk into my shop and start treatment with some expectation that the bugs will not spread into the other wood. I could wrap it when I am not working on it.
I HATE BUGS!!
Tony
check the shop
If you can keep the desk in an improvised large plastic bag then you'll contain the problem. Powderpost beetles are relentless but rather slow-moving. They won't leave the desk while you blink.
Just look carefully through your own woodpile for telltale piles of fine dust. If you find an isolated piece with bugs, just take it out to the yard and burn it. If you've got bugs in many spots, then you need an exterminator to treat the building professionally. It involves sealing off the room and gassing it for 24 hours. Very dangerous to humans as well.
It's depressing but it's the kind of thing that happens from time to time to everyone. And again, you cannot rule out the very good possibility that the beetles arrived at the desk after it was delivered, and the problem didn't start from your supplier or your shop.
Thanks everybody for all your help! I did find one excerpt from Gene Wengert on Wood Web that I will post for everyones enjoyment.
Expecting God's Best,
Tony P'Simer
From Gene Wengert, forum technical advisor:
Let me correct some of the information provided: There are different types of powder post beetles. You are dealing with lyctid PPB. This insect prefers drier wood, down to 8% MC. Other PPBs like wetter wood. It is typical to get this beetle after kiln drying, not in green wood or in air dried wood.
The PPB in furniture cannot be controlled with chemicals, as the insect is deep within the wood and any chemicals stay at or near the surface.
It is difficult in a piece of furniture for them to leave the wood and for "Ma and Pa" to find each other, breed, find a grainy wood to lay eggs, etc. So, you do not have to worry much about spreading, but the home-owner may not accept this. Of more concern is the damage (strength loss) done to the wood.
All wood that is kiln dried above 130 F is free of PPB and their eggs. So, it is likely that the infection developed when your wood was exposed to other infected lumber after kiln drying. In fact, you do have a risk that it will show up elsewhere in the next year. Springtime is the most common time. Your lumber supplier is probably the source and you may wish to consider changing suppliers. If they have the infection, it will likely continue to show up in the future.
They will remain active for several years. They will not re-infect wood with a smooth finish (varnish, etc.) but can do a lot of damage in the pieces where they are present. It should be removed from the house as soon as possible. It needs to be replaced. Keep the infected pieces and furniture away from all other wood, especially unfinished wood or lumber. Heating the piece (or lumber) to 130 F for a day will kiln the insects and their eggs. It is not uncommon for insects to show up a year after infection.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled