This forum, got me hooked on hand planes, major shift for a power tool junkie, thought I would say thanks to all those who helped with the paradigm shift. I have also tried all the sharpening methods discussed here.
Thought I would share my experience and learnings with this excercise, which included starting from scratch, getting all my planes, sharpening the irons and tuning them.
1.) Started with a new Stanley Bench #4, from Lowes at $29 and after endless tweaking, this one ended up in the trash can yesterday. The cap is now made from something finished with chrome and slips all over the place on the iron. The cap keyhole somehow deviated in tolerance, to the extent that it is almost impossible to hold the iron firmly in place. Finally, after getting this to work with some modification, the blade dug into some figure and the cast iron frog, broke in two pieces. That was it!!!
2.) Following the Lowes purchase, I acquired a few planes as given below:
Stanley Bailey #6, made in 1931 for $75 from ebay, needed cleaning, excellent condition.
Stanley Victor #5, made in 1952, $17 from ebay. This is basically the same as the Bailey, the only difference is the frog adjustment has no adjustment screw at the back, you have to position the frog by hand. No big deal. Excellent find has seen almost no use.
Stanley Victor #4, for $25 from ebay, same as above, except this one came in its original box.
Veritas #4 1/2, from Lee Valley, excellent value. Impressed with the set screws, to maintain blade alignment.
Lee Nielsen 62, which is their #5 low angle Jack. I purchased two blades here, one for end grain and one for smoothing.
I got all the Stanley planes to work perfectly, but must admit that the Veritas and LN planes are in a different league. When taking very thin shavings, they all perform the same, with the Veritas being the easiest to make depth adjustment changes, due to the blade alignment feature. When I take heavy cuts, the LN in smoothing blade mode is a long shot ahead of the rest. I tested on Walnut and Hard Maple, with a bit of figure.
3. Sharpening was the biggest learning for me………..
I tried “Scary Sharp”, with glass and 3M wet dry paper, diamond stones and water stones. After experimenting for a day, my preference by far is starting with a 350 grit diamond stone, moving to a 750 grit diamond, then a 1000 grit Japanese water stone, then a 6000 grit water stone and final touch up on a 8000 water stone. The results are unbelievable. I used a Veritas jig and guide, with excellent results.
Using abrasive papers are not for me. The most time consuming exercise in sharpening all these irons for the first time, was to get the back of the irons smooth and polished. The diamond stones cut by far the quickest and there is no concern about the stone loosing it’s flatness. The 1000 water stone, removes the scratches left by the diamond stone, much quicker than abrasive papers and the final polish on the finer water stones is quick. With my experience, if I had to flatten and polish the back of these irons with abrasive paper, it would have taken several sheets and a lot more time. I also don’t like the idea of a piece of glass in the shop.
Interesting, but the Lie Nielsen blade was a real challenge to get finely polished on the back of the blade. The A2 steel is supposedly the same as used by Veritas, but in polishing it took a lot longer to remove material.
I used the following sharpening angles, after doing a lot of research:
All the Stanleys and the Veritas were ground with a 30 degree bevel on a wet grinder and honed with a 1/16″ bevel at 2 degrees, total 32 degrees. The results are really good.
On the LN low Jack, I added a 2 degree hone to the 25 degree bevel, for end grain and the second blade I honed to an angle of 38 degrees, giving me a total pitch angle of 50 degrees. On the Hard Maple, when smoothing and taking bigger cuts this plane was superb, not sure if it’s the blade angle or the plane.
My next challenge is sharpening scrapers, and then, back to woodwork.
Replies
It's good to hear from another convert.
Which wet grinder do you use?
I you get the chance, check David Charlesworths DVD "Plane Sharpening". Available at Lie Nielsen.
Like you I tried several different sharpening methods and it was not until I tried Charlesworths method of sharpening that I got it absolutely perfect. for normal bench plane blades he only uses 2 waterstones - 1000 grit and 8000 grit (with a nagura). It takes no time and wear on the stones are at a minimum.
Ole
.... I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning....
if they serve you half as well as mine have over the years, you'll be just fine.. Sounds like you've had some fun already, and this is just the beginning of the ride too ;)
enjoy...
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Glad to see that you are heading in the right direction. O.R. Hammer gives some very good advice and I would second it only I would recommend Rob Cosmans set of 4 video's at Lie-Nielsen website. He uses David Charlesworths sharpening techniques as well but fine tunes them a bit. I learned hands on from Rob and I can litterally sharpen a plane blade in about 2 minutes. I am not fast at all. I have watched Rob numerous times try and set his own new fastest record of sharpening a brand new plane blade and I think his best time is somewhere around 40 seconds. Yes it is that easy just buy the video's. If you are doubtfull then ask yourself if Lie-Nielsen would sell junk. Rob is the Canadian distributor for L-N and could teach us all a thing or two. Hope you buy them. Peter.
Scrapers are WAY easier than plane irons. Welcome to a new obsession. I also own the #62. I agree that it's a wonderful plane.
Charlie
Boy, talk about timing. I'm getting ready to jump into the plane game. I am going to start two LN's (I have till Friday to get the birthday 10% discount). The first will be the #7 jointer and the second, I am still deciding. The sharpening is something I am still deciding on. I went by the woodcraft here in Roanoke, and talked with a guy that was very helpful. He teaches a class on sharpening and using hand planes. He recommended the veritas jig. I like the setting for the micro bevel. He spent about an hour explaining and demonstrating his technique in the store's class room. He uses various methods. He uses a slab of granite and the jig with wet/dry sand paper to get it started and finishes with a water stone. I will need to make sharpening as idiot proof as possible. Thanks for sharing the sharpening experience.
Buy the L-N video by the British guy on plane sharpening. Excellent and simple.
The micro-bevel setting on the Veritas isn't all that special. Using the other kind of honing jig, just glue or screw two little pieces of wood to either your bench or a separate piece of plywood that you clamp to your bench and use them to set the blade in the jig. Make one piece of wood a bit farther from the edge of the bench than the other. Use that one to set the distance for your "basic" bevel, and use the one closer to the edge to set the distance for your microbevel. Perfectly simple and repeatable - much better than one of those impossible little angle measuring gizmos. Works like a charm.
Thanks for the input. Do you have a picture of your jig? I'm have trouble visualizing from your description? I will take a look at the video.
Sorry I wasn't clear.
1. Put the plane blade in your honing jig. Fix the angle you want to use for your main bevel using an angle jig or whatever. Clamp the blade in the jig.
2. Press the jig against the edge of your bench so the plane blade (still clamped in the jig) is resting on the bench. Mark a line on your bench at the edge of the blade.
3. Screw or glue a little piece of wood on the bench, along the line you just marked.
From now on, you can set the blade in the jig by just butting it up against that piece of wood, without fussing with measuring angles. And if you screw or glue a second piece of wood just a bit closer to the edge of the bench than the first, you can use that one for the micro bevel angle.
If you don't want to put the pieces of wood on your bench, put them on a separate piece of plywood that you can then clamp to your bench when you need it.
Hello all,
I have to admit, I loved the idea of the Scary Sharp system, and so many people wrote about it that I tried it for a while. While I'm sure others have had great experiences, mine was frustrating. The biggest problem I had was not cutting through, wrinkling or otherwise moving the finer-grit SC paper on my surface, which is a 18"x18" piece of Corian (had a hard time finding float glass).
That said, I've had tremendous results with Japanes wetstones (OK, they're from Norton, not japan, but what the hey...). I use a 220 for aggressive material removal/back flattening when needed, then use a combo 1000/6000 to get my interim and final polish. Passes the fingernail and armhair test every time. Of course, once the back's flattened and the bevel's properly honed, all I ever really need to use are the 1000 and 6000 grits as I find my tool dulling.
I use the Veritas honing jig (not the angle jig - for that I just scratched in some angles, from 20* to 40* in 5* increments, on a block of wood, and use that to check my angles). But I like the jig, and don't feel I get nearly the same consistency in the bevel w/o it. I also like the micro-bevel feature, and I'm at the point when I only make a jig when I have to (of course, I have to a lot). But with the Veritas jig, it's quick and easy, just a quarter turn of the dial.
I've found, and others on the forum have said this, that the micro-bevel is good for chopping chisels, as opposed to paring chisels, which do seem more efficient without it. But I've not heard of putting a secondary bevel on a plane iron. Since planing seems a lot like horizontal paring to me, is it really necessary?
As for the gentleman who only uses 1000 and 6000 (or was it 8000?) grit stones, I just don't understand how the back gets flattened and the bevel gets properly honed, unless it comes perfect from the manufacturer.
As for scrapers, I know you guys will tear me apart on this one, but I love, love love my Veritas variable burnisher. It spread the edge at 0* and rolls a perfect burr at any angle from 0* to 15*. Mine are usually 6*-7*. As with the honing jig, I don't feel I have the same control over the angle using a handheld burnisher as I do with the Veritas.
Finally, before I go out and spend a boatload of cash on a bunch of videos from Lee Valley, can anyone tell me what's so special about the Charlesworth (sp?) method and how different it is from the one I use?
Hope you haven't fallen asleep reading this...
Regards,
Mitch
Hello mvac. I use the David Charlesworth sharpening technique, and it is the only way that I sharpen now. I learned it about 1 year ago and can't believe what a difference it is. His videos are available at the Lie-Nielsen web site not Lee Valley. His technique is different because he uses a back bevel on his plane irons [never chisels] that drastically reduces sharpening times. The primary bevel on the front side is refreshed using a 1000 grit stone and then the micro bevel is formed on a 8000 grit stone. The back side [the flat side] is not held flat on the stone rather it is elevated on a 6" ruler to create a slight back bevel. This is a very small bevel created on the 8000 grit stone. Two flat edges both polished to 8000 grit in about 1 or 2 minutes, that is it. Personally I would purchase the Rob Cosman videos at the LN website. Rob uses the Charlesworth techniques but speeds them up a little further. I would purchase the 4 piece video set, you will learn a lot. Peter
Hi Peter,
What method do you use for your chisels? And do you put a micro bevel on all of them?
Also I noticed that L-N has videos from Charlesworth himself. I guess you think the Cosman videos are more easily understood?
Mitch
Hi Mitch. I re-establish the edge on a chisel with a 1000 grit stone. I then raise the angle and hone a mico bevel at 8000 grit. I then flatten the back with the 8000. The chisel is then sharp. I only have 2 sets of chisels, a bevel edge set and a mortise set. I put micro bevels on both sets. I learned personally from Rob Cosman and I think that he explains himself very clearly and easily teaches others to achieve the same results. Rob has a 4 video set that teaches sharpening, how to use hand planes, dovetailing, advanced dovetailing, and taking a board from a rough state to perfectly square and flat on all 6 sides. THey are a wealth of information. Peter.
As Mike said, the Ruler Trick -
November '04 Popular Woodworking, pg. 82: "The Ruler Trick," by - guess who - David Charlesworth. 5 pages, 15 pictures, and text that seems pretty straightforward. Not that I wouldn't be willing to pay $20 + shipping for the Cosman video, but this may be sufficient for me. And, when I go to the L-N site, I find myself strangely tempted to buy the 4-DVD Cosman set at a non-trivial $75!
So, I'm gonna try to walk before I run.
Thanks for the explanation - it triggered where I'd seen something like that recently.
All the best,
Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Edited 1/26/2005 9:53 am ET by mvac
Finally, before I go out and spend a boatload of cash on a bunch of videos from Lee Valley, can anyone tell me what's so special about the Charlesworth (sp?) method and how different it is from the one I use?
Mitch..
In short... the "ruler trick"... gotta be seen to be believed..
the video (or DVD) goes through this and a bunch of other sharpening techniques.. it's well worth it... think about it.. would a tight azz'd Scot BS ya..?? ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
"would a tight azz'd Scot BS ya..?? ;)"
Mike,
I think the real question is whether a tight azz'd Scot wouldn't BS me...
That said, you had me at the brogue.
Mitch
Did someone say Robbie Burns day????????????
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