Wondering if there is a practical limit to the size of a surface that can be hammer veneered. Have never seen mention of how to tell when a surface has been “rubbed” with the veneer hammer for a long enough period, so I’m wondering wht to look for when I experiment. Is there a method whereby a larger veneer surface can be taped together but then glued to the substrate in stages using hide glue and veneer hammer, especially a larger or convex surface. Any reference to articles would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Replies
Don,
There is no limit to how large a surface can be hammer veneered. The largest I have done is about 27" by 70" with a single sheet of mahogany. Wider panels present more problems than longer ones, so your 12" piece will be quite easy.
I can't really figure out a good way to answer the "how long" question, other than to say you will know (how's that for descriptive).
Taping and hammer veneering really don't work together very well. Actually one of the advantages of hammer veneering is that projects requiring multiple sheets do not require taping, since the veneer is glued in place one sheet at a time.
Another advantage of hammer veneering is its adaptability to shaped surfaces. especially convex ones, which are hammered in exactly the same way as a flat panel.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Don
A couple of things you might want to consider when veneering large panels: practice and preparation.
Practice. See what makes it easiest for you and the veneer you are working with on a particular project. I find mahogany to be a dream wood for hammer veneering. Some of the other woods come up a bit higher on the headache list. I veneer hammer with hot hide glue with no urea on small jobs and I usually use urea in the glue when I need extra working time to spread the glue on large areas and work the veneer.
I had been using a 250 gram glue for years and didn't know it. It worked nicely but it got tacky very fast. Now I am trying the 192 for veneering and joinery and I am enjoying the slower grab. The 192gram is different than the 251. I still like the higher gram for rub joints. I know some others will say "snake oil" to me but putting some salt in the glue will slow down the rate it cools and dries. Check that out.
Just last week I did a 14"w x 38L mahogany crotch with the veneer hammer and Old Brown Glue from the bottle. I warmed the glue up to about 80 degrees in a warm water bath to get the viscosity nice and thin then warmed the ground(substrate) with a paint remover heat gun(my shop gets a bit cool). I tried to get the pine substrate warmed up so the glue doesn't gel up so fast. Using the OBG from Pat Edwards was a joy. I finished up with great results but I had a couple bubbles. As you probably know, the household clothes iron is the tool for touch up fixes.
I have been tossing around the idea of getting my own veneer vacuum system after using my friends system. He connects his system from Joe Woodworker to his compressor. It works like a dream. Unlike my friend I use hide glue -- he uses yellow, white and unibond glues. The last panels I did with the bag and curly maple with hide glue were absolutely perfect. Not a bubble on the large panel.
A veneer bag is an investment. I don't have any negative feedback on the veneer vacuum systems- they really impress me. If I was getting into veneering large panels, I would have one in my shop. On the other hand, if it was something I did occasionally or I did mostly small stuff- the veneer hammer and the basic skills required to veneer are certainly all you need.
Hammer veneer projects are not difficult but they are a skill set. You need to practice a bit before you begin your project. Its worth the time spent polishing your skills.
dan
Edited 3/15/2008 5:39 pm ET by danmart
Rob and Dan:Thanks for the feedback. I did find some info in Tage Frid's 2nd volume, and the Lincoln book on veneering; interestingly, both said after applying the hide glue heat a small area with an iron, hammer it flat, heat the next small area, ... They both said no pre-assembly of veneer - if seams needed, hammer the first down, overlap with the 2nd and hammer down, double cut the seam, heat if needed with an iron and lift off the remainder of the first sheet, iron and hammer, veneer nails to keep seam closed.I'll have to do some experimenting. Unfortunately, for this repair proposal everything has the veneer running across the boards rather than along. The flat I'll probably do with Unibond or Pro-Glue in the veneer press. Another local woodworker has several times veneered a curved surface with 5 min epoxy, working VERY quickly and using his hands as a veneer hammer. Another option would be to make a form that could stand up to the vacuum bag pressure and make new curved substrates, then veneer them in the vacuum bag. Before trying either of those, though, I'll probably try hide glue and see if I can figure out a way to "hammer" it flat on the convex shape (teardrop in cross-section, based on a 10" diameter circle).
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