Grizzly GO604x Jointer or something else
I am planning on buying a 6″ jointer. I know many of you will say I should get an 8″ jointer but I can barely fit a 6″ in my garage.
I have looked at several Jet jointers but am leaning toward the Grizzly G0604x.
It got a great review in the current Wood magazine.
My questions are
1. How important is it that a jointer have the quick set knives. The 640x does not. But for only about $250 more you can add it.
2. Grizzly has the same jointer with the spiral head for about $200 more. Is the spiral head worth the extra $200. You don’t have to sharpen the blades nearly as often and it is easier replace the cutters than the blades or so I have read. But I also have heard that the cut is not as smooth.
The similar Jet’s are at least $100 more and do not have a mobile base. Are they worth the extra $100. But at least some of the Jets have the quick set knives.
I am planning on making the purchase pretty soon so it would be helpful if any of you could respond quickly, I would appreciate it.
Domer
Replies
I can only venture an opinion "if I were in your shoes" as I already have a regular (straight-blade) jointer, a Jet. The jointer works just great, but if I had a magic wand, I'd turn it into a spiral-cutterhead, LOL. Much better on figured woods, easier to change out cutters, less expensive in the long-run. IMHO, the spiral cutterhead is a better investment than quick-change straight knives.
Thanks, I have done more looking at different jointers and think I will buy the Grizzly. The choice now is knives or spiral head. I think the difference between the straight knife and spiral head is more like $250. I don't know if I would use the jointer enough to make it worth while. If I use the jointer for 10 years, that is only $25 per year. So that's not much.Thanks for the input.Domer
I went with the 8" and regular blades I figured that if I run into issues changing the blades out I would switch to a helix head later. Just my reasoning.RCapt. Rich Clark
--DUCT Tape is the "force"... It has a Light side and a Dark side and it binds the universe together
I have the Griz 10" with the Spiral Cutter (SC). Previously, I had a Jet 6" with regular High-Speed Steel (HSS) blades. I love the SC soooooo much, I just replaced my 12" HSS planer with a Griz 15" with a SC.
If you can justify the cost, you will never (I promise) be sorry that you got a SC jointer. The cut is soooooooooooooooo much better and the blades are almost indestructible. On the other hand, if you buy all your wood S2S or S4S, I don't think it would be worth the additional cost.
On this forum, there are two kinds of posts on this topic:
People asking "if" the technology is worth the additional costs
People that have them and love them
"I have the Griz 10" with the Spiral Cutter (SC). Previously, I had a Jet 6" with regular High-Speed Steel (HSS) blades. I love the SC soooooo much, I just replaced my 12" HSS planer with a Griz 15" with a SC."
Tbagn, do you have the G0480? Looks like a great jointer, it is on my short list. There is lots of debate over dovetail vs parallelagram tables but most do not think it is significant either way -- I hear the parallelagrams are easier to mfg as the infeed and outfeed tables can be individually ground?? Ed
I hate to tool gloat but I get a major tool purchase a year, if SHMBO is cool with it. We both have good jobs and no kids :0)
I purchased the the Griz 10" w/ the SC. http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/10-Spiral-Cutterhead-Jointer/G0480 in 2007.
I got a 3 HP SawStop in 2008!
This year, (last Tuesday) I got a 15" SC Planer, that I just noticed is $200.00 bucks cheaper than I paid last week! http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/Extreme-Series-15-Planer-w-Spiral-Cutterhead/G1021X2. I called griz as I made this post... they will call me back and let me know if/when they will refund me the difference. I will be sure to post back, either way.
Next year, I'm eyeing the Griz 3 HP Cyclone... but it may be an Onieda if they don't refund my $200 bucks :o)
The jointer was perfect, right out of the box. It is a big massive machine and I would recommend it to anyone. I posted a review on Amazon.com - you may find it helpful. I do not make a living at WW... but my machines do get a lot of use. My only complaint about the jointer was the fact that the bowed base prohibits the use if a mobile base. One day, on this forum, someone pointed out a company that makes affordable leveling casters. http://www.greatlakescaster.com/great_lakes_caster___swivel_caster_with_stabilizer_leg___175_stabilizing_casters_with_a_220lbs_capacity_in_motion_and_a_550lbs_capacity_when_the_stabilizer_leg_in_extended-LV-1710-NYP-S-M12.php I ordered and installed 4 of them - and they work great. This jointer is far to big and heavy to move around on a regular basis... but these will get the job done if you need to pull it off the wall to change a belt. A much simpler process than borrowing dad's engine hoist.
I'd also look at Griz's 12" with the SC. I think I would have purchased it, if it were available at the time. Not because of the parallegram tables, just would have taken the extra 2". Bones has the 12" with the 4 knife config and I know he loves it.
Grizzly makes a good machine - I'll let you know about their Customer Service.
"The only complaint I have is that the bowed base prohibits the use of a mobile base."
Why does the bowed base prohibit the use of a mobile base? I have a PM 882 jointer that has a bowed base and was planning on putting it on a mobile base. Is there a reason why I can't?
On the Griz, the front bowes out about 2". This would prevent it from fitting on the ShopFox mobile base, and I have three of them.
Heavy Duty casters appear to work fine.
I just went out to measure and my PM bows out 1.5 inches. I can't imagine what would make the difference but I have a 1300# ShopFox on my want list in the Grizzly catalogue. I know it won't be long enough and if it won't be wide enough I can fix both problems by extending the frame with some old bed frames.
Length and width was not the problem as you can buy extensions or simply some steel tubes and tap them. My problem with the jointer is where the feet would sit, relative to the support stands, on the mobile base. The footprint wouldn't allow for full support. I did not want to take any chances with a machine that weighs in just under 1/2 a ton. Though, as I think about it, I could have bolted some steel or wood to the base of the jointer - thus raising the bowed front above the mobile base frame...
Something simple, like a pallet jack or engine hoist, would give you the clearance necessary to bolt something on. or, you could simply buy four $15 dollar casters :0)
If your ends come within two inches of the side, I doubt if you would have a problem with weight distribution but if I had to bet the farm on it...... I had thought of just using castors but wasn't sure if I wanted to raise the height that much. It is possible that would be an advantage but I have to make the decision before I can find out. Isn't that true of all aspects of woodworking?
Edited 2/17/2009 12:36 am ET by Tinkerer3
I would suggest the spiral heads......unless you really enjoy fiddling with finicky mechanical adjustments. I really hate changing knives & setting knives, and sharpening knives, etc. All of those tasks go away with the spiral head & in addition, the spiral head will give you cleaner cuts on any grain reversals you may run into in your lumber.
"I don't know if I would use the jointer enough to make it worth while." If you're buying lumber and building things, you'll be using the jointer! Face jointing, in addition to edge jointing. I didn't want to bring the "doom and gloom" comments about what a pain it is to install and set jointer knives, but people have done it for me (above), LOL. The mere thought of being able to refresh an edge in a minute or two by turning a tiny cutter, or dropping in a new one, is enough to make me drool.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
IF money was no object, we'd all have LARGE,well equipt shops, with all the best tools money could buy!!! but alas, money IS the main deterrent( or determining factor I should say) in tool purchases. having the spirals are probably the way of the future in jointers and planers. and they'd be worth every dime, IF you plan to use them as much as a pro cabinet shop would. like all "used" tools, you'd be hard pressed to recoup the difference, should you have to/want to sell the machine in the fututre. it must pay for itself, or it's a bad investment( unless you have oddles of cash at your disposal). I, personally, have no need for a head that costs more than my entire used machine cost me( and it's old arn...8" Rockwell). it's used less than the table saw, but more than drum sander. so I buy according to "use" or "need". as for replacing knives, time's all you'd be saving. no more than you (or I) use the jointer, they last a LOOOONG time before needing replaced/resharpened. many here may put theirs through a tougher regimen, then they'd qualify for an "upgrade". I don't, nor does it sound like you do. I "do" have kids(grown but ever needy) and so money dictates ALL in my hobby.
I purchased a G0452Z 6" spiral cutter and absolutely love it. Easy to use and adjust and it's very quiet. I work late at night most of the time and never worry about waking the neighbors. It cuts very smoothly. I haven't tried any figured wood yet but poplar, maple, etc., has been no problem. Spend the bucks - you won't regret it. I used the Microsoft Cash Back and with lift gate delivery (the driver used his pallet jack to put it in my garage) I had $540 total. This was at the end of last year before the latest price increase.
Eddie
Domer,
The Grizzly is an excellent machine. I would strongly recommend it over Jet models.
A quick-change cutter head makes a world of difference in using a joimer. In fact, it's equivalent to really learning how to sharpen/hone a plane iron. Once you know how, you have no hesitation to do so, and reap the benefit of having a sharp iron all the time.
Try changing standard joiner knives a few times and you will do anything to delay the inevitable. Usually far beyond the point where the knives are useful. With quick-change heads, there's no such hesitation. (And you are always using new, sharp edges)
Almost any standard head can be fitted with quick change inserts. Grizzly calls theirs "Dispoz-A-Blade." They have to be adjusted ONCE as you would standard knives, then it's quick change from that time on.
I have used (true) spiral (helix) heads. They do not improve cutting action on difficult woods. They cut down the noise a bit. That's all. The Grizzly heads are not true spiral heads. They are indexed inserts that allow quick blade "changes" by rotating the inserts. I think it's better to get quick-change knives.
You will never regret getting some kind of quick-change setup.
Rich
Edited 2/14/2009 9:43 pm ET by Rich14
The terminology on these cutterheads can get confusing. There was a really good article awhile back that explained the different types of heads/cutters, which mag I don't remember. But I found a good post at North Carolina Woodworker forum that was succint. Do these definitions match what you're thinking?
It would seem to me that even if the Grizzly's (#3) cut the same as a straight blade, the ease of refreshing cutting edges is well worth the extra $$. I see the inserts are $2.50 ea, (pack of 10, $24.95). Any idea how long they last? forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
fg,"It would seem to me that even if the Grizzly's (#3) cut the same as a straight blade, the ease of refreshing cutting edges is well worth the extra $$. I see the inserts are $2.50 ea, (pack of 10, $24.95). Any idea how long they last?"No.I feel quick change knives (the width of the cutter head, not small rotating units) are better.My first experience with quick change knives was on an inexpensive Ryobi "lunch box" planer. What a revelation!My Hammer joiner/planer has knives I can change in a minute, perfectly aligned. It requires loosening and tightening cap screws. Minimax has an even slicker Tersa cutter head in which the knives just slide in and out.Rich
Hey FG, I noticed that you have a cool "staff" icon! Congrats.
I own two griz machines.
One, a jointer, has the #3 cutterhead you mentioned. I've abused them for two years and I have yet to rotate a single blade. Based on my previous experience with a 6" Jet, I'd estimate that I would have performed 5 or 6 blade changes by now.
One other thing to note, the cutting angle on this type of cutter produces a much cleaner cut vs. the regular HSS blades. I'm not sure what the exact blade angle is... but it is much better than even new HSS blades at reducing tear out. Heck, I've even jointed end-grain cutting boards (hard maple and purple heart) without problem... as long as you allow for a quarter-inch or so.
The second, a new Griz 15" planer, has a Byrd Shelix (or equivalent). I just purchased it and I have only had a chance to run a small cherry board through... but it appears to a fine job. I still need to adjust the feed rollers - once completed, I have some wicked quilted maple that I'll test run. I purchased the planer because I got tired of being able to joint material that my 12 1/2" Delta would chew up. This always resulted spending a ton of time using my performax 16/32, just to mill my material.
Thanks, Tbagn. I have to confess, I'm a little confused about the the #3 style. The segments are "spirally mounted" but edges are "parallel to the axis". Theoretically, this means the cutting action is straight, just like the old-fashioned straight blades in my Jet. But you and others report a cleaner cut in tearout-prone stock.
I'd happily put them on my Christmas list just for the ease of changing cutters though.
I finally found this thread, which was my inquiry into the spiral/helical realm. It appears the magazine article I'm remembering was an early 2006 Wood issue, it examined the surfaces left by various styles of cutters. I'll see if I can find it.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 2/17/2009 11:49 am by forestgirl
I have a couple of comments on the #3 cutter:
They have a different cutting angle, which reduces tearout. I think the same thing can be accomplished by having straight jointer blades back-beveled..?
Recently, I made some xmas gifts that used some small strips of quilted maple. I would S2S my stock on the jointer (still get a little bit of tearout) but my Delta 22-560 would tear-up the other face - even with new blades. As a result, I would have to dimension my stock on my Performax 16/32, which took forever.
The cutting action is more like a paring cut vs. the chopping cut made by straight blades.
The blades, this far, are un-phased by glue, knots or staples. Try that with a straight knife
As for the "tracks", yes, that is true. However, I can only see them if I drag chalk across the face of the jointed board... and I have good light and 34 year old eyes - that is how small there are!
"...34 year old eyes " Oh, come on now! You haven't even hit the Big Four-Oh, LOL!
This cutting-angle thing sounds like a topic for some serious discussion. There are definitely two camps here. Tracks would be no biggie to me, gotta sand the stuff anyway (even if you don't plane it).
A new jointer is waaayyyy far down my list of wants, but if the time comes, I'd definitely consider something besides straight blades. More likely that the planer'd need to be replaced at some point.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Well, after all that discussion, I found a nearly new Jet on craigslist for $400 so I bought it.I haven't used it yet, but hope to this weekend.Hope I didn't make a mistake.Domer
Don't you just love Craigslist! I try to check almost every day. Jet 6"? my dad has one, it is a good machine. You'll be happy.
It is the JJ-6csx. It got good reviews on line. I hope I have time this weekend to try it out. He said he only used it three times and except for the dust, it does look new. The guy has a Woodmaster 25" Planer for $1,500. If I had room, I would own it. It is a nice piece of equipment at a great price. But my wife has a quaint idea that cars belong in the garage so I think doing without the planer is better than getting a divorce. Oh well. Domer
lol, darn cars ruin everything!
It's essentially the same machine as the Grizzly G0654. It's a good basic machine that will perform very well if adjusted properly. I used the Grizzly 6" machine for several years and have only praise for it. I don't which Taiwanese factory actually makes this machine, but it's very robust for its size.You could have gotten the Grizzly, new, for the same price, including the integrated mobile base, and for $35 more, essentially the same machine with a bigger fence and other bells and whistles.My recommendation to get a knife quick change add-on stands. I have many years experience changing joiner knives and can do it almost without thinking. But having used machines with quick-change heads, I would never go back.Rich
Grizzly stopped making the G0604 and went to the 604x. At least that is what Grizzly told me. The only difference between the two is the 604x has a 1.5 hp motor vs 1.0 on the 604.If I am unhappy with the Jet, I should be able to sell it for what I bought it for. There were three or four other people interested in it.Domer
When Grizzly adds an "X" to a model, they don't "stop making" anything. They just add some bells and whistles to the existing model. In a 6" joiner, the 0604X really adds nothing that can't be accomplished with the 0654 or 0452. The extra money is a silly outlay for a 6" machine. Those last two are the same chassis as your machine. The only reason you'll really have to spend more money is to get a larger machine. The one you bought will do everything a 6" machine can do. (Except change knives quickly and easily. Did I mention you should get quick-change inserts?)Rich
I don't have a jointer yet. I have very limited space. I was convinced I wanted the 8". Until I started working with a tape measure in my little shop. What I really wanted was the Inca which is short in length and wide. Went out of business they tell me. ; ( I started thinking about sawing off the ends of the tables on the 8" Griz so I could have the width and fit it between my big old welding machine and the nice big cabinet makers bench I shoe horned into the shop. Aaaaraahhhhg !
No I am not kidding. And yes I could do a professional job of it. Scary and stupid isn't it ?
Who knows maybe one of the combo jointer planers is in my future they tend to be shorter and wider. With the weird economy and having spent the money on my Mac Air lap top at the last minute (my dream machine I had to pounce. My first lap top. Waited a decade for the world to catch up to my vision. When the lid/screen was raised and that key board lit up they had me ! Love at first sight. And six months later? Well lets just say it has been a great honey moon and money well spent ) who knows when I will actually be able to take the jointer plunge. Like the Griz 8" but for now . . .
Hellllooo hand planes . . .
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
roc,My 12" joiner/planer is only 56" inches long. Very small foot print. great for a small shop. As I posted in another thread, there is no truth that shorter joiner beds limit the length of boards that can be straightened. Longer beds make handling longer lumber easier, but that's all.I don't know anything about the current Grizzly joiner/planers (10" & 12") of the same over-all "Euro" design, but they are space-saving. From what I can glean from the catalog they don't have quick-change knives and I can't tell if Grizzly offers their "Dispoz-A-Blade" retro fit for these.Rich
Edited 2/15/2009 8:10 am ET by Rich14
>Hammer joiner/planer has knives I can change in a minute, perfectly aligned<Sounds like you read my mind. I always think : I will save time planing but how much time will I spend ( and money ) replacing blades or sharpening. I am just gun shy because the woods I have been working are very hard and tend to eat sharp blades.I will be going back to the friendlier walnut etc. soon so probably a mute point. I have read that the DeWalt bench top planer is a fantastic machine but the blades can be fifty dollars a set to change out. So I even held off getting one of those. Resharpening with this DeWalt ( ? not an option ? ) . I am probably over thinking it.Way back I was convinced I wanted a euro style joiner planer and then started to hear that one either has the joiner fettled perfect or the planer but to have both just right can get tricky. I have, in the last few months had people here tell me this is not a problem.There must be a trade off/down side to combining the two in one machine. Expense for one for sure.Thanks for the positive word on the short and wide dude.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 2/15/2009 1:24 pm by roc
I want a spiral head jointer..
I lust after one.
I have a Grizzly and it's fine but setting blades is a pain.. plus it's noisy.. The spiral head jointers I've seen and used are wonders of quiet compared to the straight cut jointers..
I bought the gizmo's and gadgets to make setting blades easier and they do but still not as fast as you can switch the cutters in a spiral head cutter.. Plus if you nick a cutter all you do is rotate it. you don't have to replace all the blades..
Spiral head is the way to go..
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