Replies

1. 
   DougF | Jun 11, 2004 04:29pm | #1

   Bones,

   The difference is right or left tilting blade.  I think you will find that most woodworkers, when they have a choice, prefer left tilting blades since it tends to be safer and produce less blade burn when cutting with the blade in less than a 90 degree position.

   As you have proably noticed, there are versions where one of the differences is the fence.  I have not used the "precision" fence but my Griz came with the Shop Fox fence since it is a Beisemeyer "knock off".  I replaced it with my old Beisemeyer and install the Shop fox on the old saw.  I have used the Shop Fox with my old saw and it works well - not as good as the Beisemeyer - but it provides good service. 

   Doug 

1. 
   bones | Jun 11, 2004 04:48pm | #2

   Thanks. Boy, I can't belive I missed that. I looked and looked at the spec's and did not notice that. I would want the Left tilt (away from the fence) so that makes it easy.  I have a question on your bessy fence. Did it attach easily, or did you need to make modifications to make it fit the table?

1. 
   DougF | Jun 11, 2004 06:40pm | #3

   Bones,

   I had to drill and tap new mounting holes for the Biese front rail and wing support in the rear.  The metal is soft and it goes fairly fast once your get the rails claimped in the right position and make your center punch marks for drilling.  Tapping the mounting holes was my choice and if you use nuts and lock washers, that will speed up the process.  The only slight diffuclty is aligning the rear rails since they have to be split due to saw blade guard design.  The rear rails have nothing to do with the fence and are used to support the wings.  I think the whole process, inluding mounting the extra formica-surfaced extension wing, probably took an hour once I had disassembled the Biese from the old saw.   Setting up the Shop Fox fence would have proabbly taken 20 minutes so the extra time really isn't much of a factor. 

   Doug

2. 
   LeeEschen | Jun 12, 2004 11:58am | #12

   It's not included in the summer sale, but if you like the left tilt and have the space and the bucks, I would go for the 1023SLX, with the long rails and the extension table. This will let you rip to 54" to the right of the blade; very useful when working with sheet goods.

   --

   Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon;

   Gateway to the Oregon Caves

2. 
   BG | Jun 11, 2004 07:00pm | #4

   Bones,

   I think the bigger, more expensive, and not as good shop fox fense is on the 'Z'.  The Shop Fox classic is the Bies knock off and works well...the more expensive model has gotten some bad press.... 
3. 
   forestgirl | Jun 11, 2004 07:44pm | #5

   Bones, you don't have to get the 1023Z model to get a left tilt, and I suspect you'd be disappointed in that metal Shop Fox fence.  Click here to see the 1023SL -- left tilt, Beisemeyer clone (SF Classic) fence.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   bones | Jun 11, 2004 08:37pm | #6

   Thanks. I downloaded and printed the 1023SL manual and took a look at it. I would consider upgrading to the Bessy fence if the SF is not as accurate.  Do you have the 1023?

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 11, 2004 08:59pm | #7

   "Do you have the 1023?"  Nope.  I lust after it, I've seen it up close and in person (the Bellingham showroom is about 3 hours away), and I follow discussions about it to see what owners have to say, for that magical day when a new table saw is a possibility!

   Several Knotheads own the 1023 and have good things to say about its performance.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Jellyrug | Jun 11, 2004 10:34pm | #8

   Bones,

   This is me again, if we continue along this path, we will end up with identically equipped workshops. LoL.

   I bought the G1023SL, in December last year and have really enjoyed both the saw and the Shop Fox fence. I have put a lot of board feet through this machine and so far both the saw and the fence performed flawlessly. It is the most often used tool in my shop.

   I use a mid range carbide combination blade and have done a number of glue-ups directly from the saw, with no glue line visibility. 8/4 Hard Maple, like slicing through butter.

   The left tilt is nice, but I believe it is over rated on any table saw.  On a right tilt machine, all you have to do, is work on the other side of the blade. No biggie, provided you have good hand eye co-ordination..

   The disadvantages of my SL is that the maximum saw height is 3" compared to the 3 1/8" on the normal saw. More important, all Grizzly's accessories, such as the sliding table and the zero clearance inserts, are made for the normal right tilt saw.

   Willie

3. 
   BG | Jun 12, 2004 12:32am | #9

   Bones,

   I've got the 1023s which is right tilt and I enjoy it very much.  There are some advantages to the right tilt...but they are all personal.....handle on the left side....motor cover on right under extension....measuring tape stays accurate as you change blades or when dadoing, etc.

   If I did buy a left tilt....I would consider shifting the rails for the fense to the right about 10"....giving me a larger support surface to the right.  A tap comes with the TS 

   Edited 6/11/2004 5:33 pm ET by BG

1. 
   joelc | Jun 12, 2004 05:50am | #10

   Hey Bones,

   I had a good look at both saws when I was in Bellingham last month for the tent sale.  Here are a few of my observations:

   Although the G1023S and G1023SL are essentially the same saw (except for blade tilt) the G1023S is slightly better built.  You will notice that the motor in the G1023S is mounted on a solid, cast brace.  The motor on the G1023SL is mounted on a sheet steel plate.  Will this make a huge difference?  I really don't know.  In theory there would be more vibration, but in practice it may not make a difference.

   Though the Shop Fox fence on the G1023Z is said to be their more expensive and better fence, I'm not buying into it.  The example in the show room wasn't stable - there was quite a bit of play and it didn't seem to lock very well.  Sure, it may not have been mounted right, but it scared me off.  Two other things bothered me about the fence.  First, it was tedious to remove and put back on compared to the classic.  Secondly, the back rail would interfere with a table extension in the back.  The Shop Fox Classic had none of these limitations.  It seemed like a good, solid, simple fence in keeping with the traditional Biesmeyer.

   Personally, I'm pretty keen on the G1023SL, but I'm waiting to see what General comes up with in the next month.  I've heard they are releasing a new "lighter cabinet" saw similar to Delta.  The difference from what I understand is that it is a true cabinet saw and not a contractor saw re-packaged as a cabinet saw.  On the surface, the Grizzly seems like a good buy, but once you add in the upgrades such as longer rails, bigger table, the buck$ add up quickly. 

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 12, 2004 08:52am | #11

   "but once you add in the upgrades such as longer rails, bigger table, the buck$ add up quickly."   This is definitely true.  The 1023 is a heck of a buy, though, for those of us who don't need the long rails. 

   Thanks for the details on the difference between the 1023S and the 1023SL -- I haven't been up to Bellingham since the introduced the SL, so hadn't been aware of that difference.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   mike4244 | Jun 13, 2004 02:59am | #17

   Forest girl, you can get 38" of rip capacity with the standard shop fox rails, though you trade off no rip to the left. I moved the rails to the right of the blade so I get 38" rips. For most people this is wide enough. Had to drill and tap new holes, very easy ,Grizzly supplies the tap and drill with the saw. Cast iron drills easier than mild steel.In 42 years I do not recall ever ripping to the left of the blade , always to the right.

   mike

3. 
   Dustmight | Jun 12, 2004 02:08pm | #13

   Hi Joel - For me, the new saw from General is breaking news. (cool!) I learn alot here! Was it definitely General or was it General International?

4. 
   bones | Jun 12, 2004 05:36pm | #14

   Thanks for all the details. Looking at something in a picture is not the same as seeing it in person. I was playing around on the grizzly site and had put the SL in the shopping cart and added the options. It got expensive in a hurry. After adding up all the parts, it may be back to the used Unisaw.  It will still be a couple of months before I have the cash, so I have time to decide. The SLX looks like a cheaper option. If I get the sl and add the table option and the 7' rails & sf base, it takes it's price delivered to $1,404.00. The SLX same config is $1,331.00. Boy that's a lot of dough. The search goes on! Thanks again to everybody for the information. 

   Edited 6/12/2004 10:37 am ET by bones

5. 
   joelc | Jun 12, 2004 09:51pm | #15

   Scotty,

   It is a General International (sorry I wasn't clear about that). I haven't yet seen the saw, but in talking to a few people closer to the situation, I understand that General has put some effort into building a true cabinet saw for a serious hobbyist/light production.  That is, the trunion will be attached to the base and not the table.  The specs, to the best of my knowledge are:

   44" X 27" table, 50" Canadian made T-Fence system (much like the General), 2HP motor.  I suspect the motor is the same as on their contractor saw.

   Here in Vancouver, BC, they are pricing the saw at $1,100 Cdn or roughly $785 USD.  Overall, you would unquestionably be getting more saw with the Grizzly, but you would also pay an extra $400 - $500 for the equivalent fence. 

   Grizzly is priced such that they really get you on the upgrade from their 25" rails to their 52" rails.  That upgrade is worth $150! Yet, if you were to just buy the fence and rails separately, you would pay $225 for 25" and $275 for 52" - only a $50 upgrade!  It's almost worth buying a Grizzly saw at $895 (with 25" rails), buy a second 52" system for $275 and find a different home for the 25" system.  (Essentially you're getting a 25" Bies system for only $125). 

6. 
   BG | Jun 12, 2004 11:41pm | #16

   Bones,

   I paid the $795 (1023s)plus $55 shipping and $50 bucks for the Shop Fox base.  When it arrived it cost $100 to run the 220.  Now, to use it a good blade, dado set and finally Incra SE miter guage and that all adds up to about $1400....plus or minus $50.

   I had planned to add the longer rails at a later date...but in a year and a half I have had no need.  Quite frankly, if I wanted longer rails at this time I'd probably make them out of hard maple....all they do is sit there and provide support for the fense.