Grizzly G0540 horizontal boring
Hi ALL,
Several weeks ago there was a thread about using the Grizzly G0540 horizontal boring machine as a mortiser. I have a rather large order for some custom windows coming up and this seemed like just the thing to tackle the joinery.
I finally got a chance to get it adjusted and make a few holes. The unit is quite heavy and very solid for a piece of machinery this inexpensive ( $ 375. plus $ 75. for shipping ). The X,Y table movement is nice and smooth with no play or slop ( well, none that I could detect ). I used a 5/8″ end mill and removed about 3/16″ or so in each pass in red oak with no problem. Deeper plunges, however, seemed to put a bit of a strain on the motor ( side loading ) causing excessive chatter. Shallow passes seem to be thew way to go.
One thing it can’t do is center a bit on 3/4″ material. The table won’t go high enough to do this. An auxiliary table would fix this plus, if properly designed, could help with registration of the work pieces. It could also use a locking device on the elevation control. Although it didn’t move during use,it would seem more secure if it had one.
All in all I think it will be a good addition to my small one man shop. How long will it last? At that price it doesn’t have to last long.
Paul
Replies
I have access to the Rojek mortiser and from the folks I've talked to with the G0540 I would say the Grizzly is just as good quality for the money compared to the $1,600 for the Rojek. Shallow passes is what I typically use on commercial mortisers as well. You will most likely have to loctite the chuck on as I beleive it's still on a Jacobs taper. Funny how Grizzly made it as a doweling machine and it's really pretty much the same design as a slot mortiser. For the money you can still upgrade parts of it and still be ahead.
Edited 6/1/2007 7:46 am ET by RickL
Paul: I have two questions if you don't mind. How is the drill chuck held on to the motor shaft? How do you remove it ?.The other question is how is the table elevated? I see the two verticle rods that it slides on.
The machine looks like it is doing a good job for you,nice finish on those mortices.I'am surprised that the end mill didn't work it self loose.As drill chucks are not good for taking side loads. Chris
That would depend on the chuck in the long run. 15 years ago a friend and I converted an old handmill into a slot mortiser and used a heavy duty chuck with a jacobs taper. We pinnied it to the shaft and it has been in heavy use for many years with never a problem with the chuck losing endmills.
From past conversations with G0540 users they had a Jacobs 33 taper on the spindle. Loctite took care of any lateral thrust problems of the chuck coming loose. For the money you can improve the quality of the G0540 and still come out way ahead cost wise compared to what else is available on the market.
You are right .its the tapers that generally come loose .that is why lathes and milling machs use draw bars.I have had end mills come loose a couple times when i tried to mill on a drill press ,a bad idea IMO.,as you said it could be the chuck..On the other hand i seem to forget to tighten all three locations on the chuck. Don't know if that helps, but i have heard it does.
As far as Locktite goes ,sure that wiil work might be a little tough getting off, of course ,heat will take it off too.If i were to buy one i would drill and tap through the chuck body ,so as to have a jack screw to get the chuck off if so desired .
For the money as you said ,its a good deal. Chris
Even more effective, and no more difficult, would be to drill a hole in the center of the chuck and bolt it onto the end of the motor's shaft which would have to be drilled and tapped. This would prevent the chuck from coming loose in the first place without resorting to Loctite.
John White
Good idea, John. I think that's how I'll handle the problem if my chuck comes loose.
Paul
It would have to be a reverse thread or it will come loose. Left hand taps and screws are availble from mcmaster.com
To validate my point look at any reversing hand drill.
Thanks Rick. If it comes to that I'll keep the reverse thread thing in mind.
Paul
Yeah John i agree , I was going to mention that but it seems every time i mention drilling and tappng on a wood working forumn people seem to feel, intimated ! So to keep things simple i didn't mention it. But I agree the right way would be to drill and tap the shaft.It could be done by hand but i would prefer to do it on a metal lathe.Also, I would use a left had tap just like a power drill. Which then brings up the question , where do; you find a left hand screw?Probably from that old power drill!
When ever i buy a new drill chuck or pick one up at a garage sale l drill the body through for a punch to knock out morse taper.They sell wedges for it as i'am sure you know but I prefer a punch
Which brings up one last question John, In your opinon , do you think the motor bearings will take the side thrust?On the other hand the bearings ought to be cheap enough even if it was an annual event. Chris
Typically there isn't much side thrust when you use a slot mortiser as you plunge in slightly and move the table side to side. Routers use standard bearings and they take a lot more side thrust than a slot mortiser.
http://www.mcmaster.com carries left hand taps and screws. A lathe isn't really necessary for something that simple
Bearings are cheap at http://www.bearingbrokersinc.com I pay about $1.60 for bearing for Unisaws there. I work on machiney for a living.
Good to know about McMaster having left hand scrs. didn't think of looking there.
I was mainly thinking of the long length from the motor bearing to the cutter in regards to bearing life.,much more than a router.
But above is really a non issue wlith the cost of bearlings that cheap.Unisaw bearings $1.60? Boy i'll have to check out that link Thanks Chris
Ok...got too carried away with commercial slot mortisers which have reverse to use the special commercial mortise bits which will run in either direction so it is an issue on those machines. I do find the endmills are better and a right hand screw will only tighen more with standard rotation
Chris,
Personally, I wouldn't go through the extra trouble of tapping a left hand thread into the shaft.
A properly seated Jacobs taper won't rotate. As long as the screw keeps the chuck seated, rotation backing out the screw isn't a problem. The reversible portable drills have the chucks threaded on so the chucks will rotate if reversed. However I would apply a light grade of Loctite to the screw to prevent it from loosening from vibration.
The bearings will probably hold up well. As someone noted the load isn't that great if you cut the mortise in stages and ordinary motor bearings are designed to take a moderate side load such as that from a belt and pulley. If they did fail, they are a easily replaced and could be upgraded to a better quality bearing which would extend their life.
Someone mentioned how it would be best to remove the motor's shaft and do the drilling and tapping on a metal lathe. It appears to me that you could take a lathe tailstock and clamp it to the boring machines table to do the job quite nicely with good control.
John W.
Edited 6/5/2007 9:40 am ET by JohnWW
Like your idea about using a lathe talil stock, thats being very resourceful !A nd if the tail stock was too high it could always be lald over on its side and bolted to a right angle plate or what ever. Yeah you are right about the left hand thread , it's unnesssary. Don't know what i was thinking.
According to the pics people are getting a pretty good finish. Iam a little suprised with that much shaft ,chuck ,cutter length sticking out.
Great tip John Chris
Hi Chris,
Rick talked about the chuck being attached to the motor shaft with a Jacobs taper. The motor shaft is maybe tapered to mate with the chuck? Kind of like the spur drive on a lathe only in reverse? Just guessing. If it comes off I'll know. The table is raised and lowered using the black hand wheel in front.
Paul
Thanks for the reply. Yes they are both ground , so that their tapers are the same. If does come off use alcohal to clean both tapers . chris
All that and happiness for $375+, yet we get folk sinking gold into a Festool Domino? A world gone mad.
I think the "problem" is being overcomplicated. When the chuck became loose soon after I started using my G0540, I gave it a good whack with a wooden mallet. That was two years ago and it hasn't come loose since. Art
The best approach of all.
John W.
Would it make sense to remove the motor and replace it with an inexpensive router? I know we are disposing of the motor, but my understanding was that this thing as purchased turns too slowly to use router bits - which is why you are using end mills - correct?
Is it even possible to remove the motor?
The question would then be why would you use router bits when end mills do such a better job?
...
The question would then be why would you use router bits when end mills do such a better job?
Because I have the router bits..... and an old router...... so it seemed like I could achieve the same results without additional expense.
Edited 6/6/2007 2:08 pm ET by Womble
Really good end mills are under $10 each, and once you use them, you'll forget about standard router bits for mortising.
I've just read RickL's and Napie's comments.
Wow! $5 for an end mill.
THe OP pictures did show beautiful clean mortises.
So, why are we using routers and $30 carbide bits for mortising? Coz we already have them I suppose.
I looked at this unit several years ago but thought it was too good to be true - for $350. Perhaps I should re-examine this tool.
Edited 6/6/2007 2:40 pm ET by Womble
$5 endmills are HSS and imports. You wouldn't want to run HSS at 20,000 rpm. Carbide are not really necessary for mortising. Cost about $5 to sharpen so it's a throwaway.
Commercial slot mortisers typically run at 3,600 rpm and the toolings is designed for this rpm. The endmill works better in my experience than mortising bits and two flute high speed steel endmills are cheap and last a long time. Hundreds of holes and $5 for a 1/2 endmill. It's actually more verstile at that speed than with a router. One can also dowel with the machine and you certainly can't run a drill bit at 20,000 rpm and not burn it up.
If anything putting a jack shaft and pillow blocks with the motor located below would be an improvement in my opinion. I'd use a step pulley to get some lower speeds and get it to run at 5,000 rpm at the top speed. The dowel drilling is a handy feature along with mortising and with a price of less than 1/2 of the Domino they should be selling this left and right.
Thanks for the update, I think I'll be placing my order this week.
Your welcom. So far, it seems like a very good value.
Paul
colebearanimals,
Just wanted you to know that I found this thread to be very informative. I have a confession that I'm embarrassed, but not too proud to make. Having been a weekend woodworker for almost 20 years, I've never done a mortise and tenon joint until this week. I've been using screws, dowels, biscuits, tongue and dado and any other form of joinery to avoid the mortise and tenon. My though was, could I actually be called a woodworker if I haven't mastered or at least made a M and T joint? I did them all on my table saw, with a tenoning jig and miter gauge. I marked them out precisely and executed the cuts carefully with patience. I cleaned them up with a chisel and I'm proud to say they came out very nicely. Having done this, I'm not so sure that I want to use this joint very often as it did take a long time, and it seems like there's just to many ways one can screw up this joint if one is not extremely patient and careful and has all machinery and jigs dialed into to almost absolute perfection. Having done this once, would it be OK for me to move on to loose tenons now? This set up your using seems to be a quicker and more precise way of making mortises than drilling them out with a drill bit and cleaning them up with a chisel and less expensive than the much touted Festool Domino. Thanks for sharing. I may just put in my order soon.
Danny
Edited 6/7/2007 1:24 am ET by brownman
Edited 6/7/2007 1:25 am ET by brownman
Edited 6/7/2007 1:26 am ET by brownman
Edited 6/11/2007 1:26 am ET by brownman
Edited 6/11/2007 1:27 am ET by brownman
The biggest tool mistake I ever made was selling my Robland Jointer/planer/morticer combo. I have missed that boring machine ever since. Once you use loose tenons, you’ll wonder how you ever got along without them. I have place my order for this machine, as I see it the table alone is worth the price.
Hi Danny,
Floating tenons are generally a littler faster. I use both in my shop depending on the specific project. I'm using the horizontal approach because this project requires rather long rails that would make tablesaw or router cut joinery too difficult. A router and simple jig is a good way to cut mortises also. And sure, try some loose tenons. Even if you end up not using them much it will help hone your woodworking skills.
Paul
All,
The bit shown in in the pictures in my original post is a 5/8" TiN coated endmill from Grizzly........ $ 7.95 ! Hard to beat.
Paul
Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between a loose tenon and a floating tenon. Aren't we talking about the same thing here?
I could have used this spindle boring machine on the project I'm doing right now ,as it involves tenoning the ends of some 75" long boards. Actually, I'm not sure how I'm going to do this. Have any ideas? I've already cut square mortises. I think I'm just going to clamp the two boards together with some support boards to the sides and cut the tenons by hand with the router and a straight edge.If you can think of any easier way let me know.
Danny
Edited 6/8/2007 2:53 am ET by brownman
I'd use the slot mortiser to make mortises in the rails and stiles and use loose tenons to put it together. I've used this method with pieces 120" long. I'm not a traditionalist so whatever works best is fair game. Loose and floating tenon are the same.
Thanks Rick,
I'd love to get a slot mortiser right now, but money is a little tight as I just purchased a sliding table saw. For this project, I'm just going to have to use the router to cut my tenons,as my sliding table saw doesn't arrive until late July. I could have used that to cut the tenons on these long boards, with a dado blade, as it has a 102" fence.
Danny
Danny,
Why don't you just use loose, floating tenons ( same thing ) on your project? Since you already have square mortises just make square edged loose tenons.
Paul
That might work , but it's a knock down design so I think it would be more stable with a fixed tenon.
Edited 6/9/2007 1:06 am ET by brownman
If you glue a floating tenon into one of the two pieces you'll have the equivalent of a fixed tenon.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
Yes, and that would be easier if I had the horizontal boring machine! With these long pieces it's hard to know the easiest or best way to execute a tenon. I suppose I could use a forstner bit and drill out the ends free hand,square it up with a chisel and then glue in the tenons, rather than trying to clamp the rails together and route off to create the tenons. So far this sounds like the easiest way to do this? What think ye?
Danny
The loose tenon approach only works well if you have a machine for accurately making the slots. Trying to create an accurate slot in end grain by drilling out freehand and then cleaning up the slots with a chisel will be considerably more difficult than making solid tenons on the ends of the stock.
John W.
John,
You said in a post awhile back (I think?) that FWW might do a tool review on this. Any progress or news whether you are going to?
Jeff
Thanks for your expert input. I'll go with the router to mill the tenons .
Danny
my experience with the G0540
I'd stay away from this machine. Have had nothing but bad experiences with it. I can't even in good conscience resell it to anyone. Here are the problems:
1. As the original poster noted, there's a major design flaw with the table not able to raise high enough to the center of the chuck. On my machine it only comes as high as 1.5" below the center of the chuck so you'll need to make a jig close to 1.5" thick if you make mortises with narrow walls. I complained to Grizzly about this and they sent me a 2" granite surface plate for free to sit on the table. In retrospect I should have returned the machine to them but I didn't realize there were other problems...
2. Even if the table could raise high enough, you'd still need something on the cast table because it's not at all flat. When I place a straight edge on the middle of the table there's a 1/16" gap on either side.
3. The XY table is not well secured to the base. The bolts are flimsy which creates a lot of vibration. Because of this I'm not able to use larger sized mortising bits. There's just too much chatter. Even taking very light passes, bits grab and pulled. And I've tried 2 and 4 fluted end mills and it's the same thing. It's okay with @ 5/16 or smaller diameter, but anything bigger and it becomes a problem.
4. The chuck itself is not very beefy, so this may also contribute to the chatter probem.
Again, strongly urge anyone to stay away. I liked the $525 price with delivery, especially since it includes an XY table, but now I realize it's not worth it. If you're starting out and need to stay within that price point, try making your own machine, or see if you can find an Inca tablesaw with the built in moritser. In my area you can find them for $350-550, and your getting a better mortiser with an XY table, and a small table saw.
PMF
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