I’m looking to buy a new table saw. My 1 1/2 hp Ridgid just doesn’t cut it, literally. I’ve been looking at the Grizzly, the price is reasonable and it’s about the right size, space is a problem. Most of the reviews I’ve read are good, however all but one of the reviews were for the 3 hp.
I figure for the extra $200 I can get the 5 hp and not have anymore stalls. So, does anyone own the Griz 5 hp, what do you think of it and how long have you had it?
Jim
Replies
If you get stalls with the 3 hp. you are using a feeder at a high production rate ripping heavy maple.
As I said, I have a 1 1/2 hp contractors saw. I am looking to buy a 3 hp or a 5 hp cabinet saw.
Yes, as I was trying to say, you will avoid stalling with the 3 hp. motor in all but the very most challenging situations. The 5 hp. is overkill outside of production, in my opinion.
Edited 5/9/2009 7:47 am ET by SteveSchoene
I have a 5hp cabinet saw and can tell you that it is overkill. 3hp is probably overkill as well!
Best,
John
I upgraded to a 5 HP from a 3 HP and the reason was two-fold. The 3 HP handled everything up to 2" with ease and most woods up to 10/4 (2 1/2") with the exception of a few dense species as it slowed down the rip process. But.. I do hire out occasionally to prep air dried stock in quantity (1000 to 4000 bd. ft.) and some of that is 12/4 (3").
So.. I had justification for the upgrade even though my personal furniture building can be handled easily with 3 HP as most stock I personally purchase is no more than 8/4 (2"). So reason #1.
Reason two is after shopping various 5 HP saws... I discovered the Steel City 5 HP is made in a different plant in Taiwan and not their production plant in China. The castings on their 5 HP single phase are larger than the older PM 66 and current Sawstops. And doing some homework.. I found the tolerances on the Steel City 5 HP were actually better than the old PM 66 and as good as the newer SS which has excellent tolerances.
So.. for around $200 more I got the 5 HP I personally need on occasion and got a saw more robust with tighter tolerances than any other 3 HP I compared to with the exception of the $4000 SS. Big difference between $1800 and $4000 + so....
In the case of the Grizzly.. I suspect the 3 HP and 5 HP are the same saw with the exception of the upgrade of HP. So.. your decision IMO should simply be based on do I want to spend an extra $200 and have something I probably don't need.. or spend the extra $200 and have it there just in case some point down the road an occasional need arises.
This is just the way I would view the decision. Good luck with whatever way you make the call. And keep in mind a 3 HP can runs off a 220 V line with 20 A breaker and the wire can be 12 gauge. A 5 HP needs a 30 A breaker and the wire has to be 10 gauge to accomodate the extra 10 Amps..
Hope this gives you some things to consider....
Sarge..
Edited 5/9/2009 10:49 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
"In the case of the Grizzly.. I suspect the 3 HP and 5 HP are the same saw with the exception of the upgrade of HP"Is there any particular reason for this thinking? Your own experience with the Steel City machines would suggest that a HP increase warrants a quality upgrade. Something that other manufacturers might also factor into their products.
In the majority of cases it is the same saw from going over these things for years. There is no major reason to have one saw designed and then beef it up or re-design just to put a 5 HP on it. An exception is the Sawstop which I suspect was beefed up to handle the major impact when one of those brake cartridge fires. That design handles both the 3 HP and 5 HP motor. With that said..the newer Professional saw SS is releasing is not as robust as the original design.. hence the price difference.
If you have seen the video of the brake tripping and the impact that ensues... you would understand the reason to have to beef it up. And one thing I question by lowering the trunnion sizes.. etc. on their newer but cheaper saw. Time will tell...
In the case of the Steel City their 3 HP is designed by them and made in their China Plant but.. they chose to go with someone else's design that was already being produced by a factory (Union One) in Taiwan. That saw happens to be a very robust design that was intended for Industrial use. The 3 HP saw Steel City produces would be plenty for a 5 HP motor but again.. they just chose another manufacturers design on this one as very few 5 HP's are sold compared to 3 HP that is the top seller. They get by with only have to concentrate on production 3 HP motors in lieu of having to worry about having two with the need for the 5 HP limited.
Could the Grizzly be made by a different manufacturer and be beefier? I suppose it could but I hardly doubt it. Why don't you call Grizzly tech and ask if you are curious. The Steel City is more of an exception under circumstances than a need to beef up for increased HP.
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 5/9/2009 9:48 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
"And keep in mind a 3 HP can run off of a 220 volt line and a 20 amp breaker and the wire can be 12 gauge. A 5 HP needs a 30 amp breaker and the wire has to be 10 gauge to accommodate the extra 10 amps.
This is what I had thought but in the instructions for my MM16 band saw (not MM's instructions) which is 4.7 HP says "in most cases the saw will work just fine on a twenty amp circuit. I wired and fused mine for thirty amps. Probably the saw runs with such little stress that a higher amperage is not needed.
The info I quoted was from reading countless post concerning wire gauge.. amps.. etc. from electricians.. electrical engineers.. etc. I will say that they often dis-agree with themselves. My local electrician which I trust told me if the saw is pulling close to 20 Amps definitely to to a 30 Amp breaker and use 10 gauge which corresponds.
I have two 220 V lines in my shop. One with 20 A breaker for 3 HP and under.. one with 30 A breaker for my two 5 HP machines. But.. when I ran the lines.. I used 10 gauge in both cases to give me more versatility if I decided to make changes that would include 5 HP. So.. I paid a few dollars more for heavier 10 gauge but.. I can run either 20 A or 30 A on both those lines without going back to ground zero and starting from the box with the appropriate.
I think the key to you manual statement is... "in most cases". Call them and ask what most cases are and what they aren't since they left it for you to find out with that statement. And I personally think you were wise to run 10 gauge from the git-go just in case your situation fell out of the "in most cases" range.. whatever that is? ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Have a good day Tink...
Sarge..
What is happening in that case, though, is that the circuit breaker becomes the limiting factor. So you have, in effect, a 3HP saw.It's interesting that they would say that in the literature that comes with the product. In a roundabout way, they're saying that you just paid extra for something that you're very unlikely to ever need.-Steve
Sorry for the delay. The wife took me to Alaska for a ten day cruise to celebrate forty blissful years together. To clarify, it wasn't actually the company literature that recommended the 20 amp circuit, it was some experts that gave it. Actually, overall, the manual was much better than the one the company put out.
I bought my Grizzly 1023slx back in summer 2004. It's 3hp and I have run 10/4 and it has handled lt just fine. I've never even grunted the motor with my forrest blade. Ain't nothing wrong with a 5hp saw and if you have the power supply go for it, but 3hp will do an awful lot. If you get the 5hp do a review so we know how you like the new riving knife setup. Trust me after you upgrade you will just go wow. I went from a shopsmith to mine. Can't believe the difference. If the only reason is a concern over bogging down, put that 200 in a good blade. just my two cents worth.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=18897.1&redirCnt=1
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Thanks to everyone who offered their opinion. You were all very helpful. Helpful enough that I am going with the 3 hp, save the money and hopefully have fewer electrical hassles.Thanks again, Jim
Hay,
are you concerned with getting hurt from such a large motor?I have a 1.5 HP table saw and have upgraded every other major piece of equipment, but not upgraded the table saw; I was worried about getting hurt or perhaps killed, honestly, from kick back. I got hit once with kick back with a 1.5 HP machine. It hurt big time, very,very, very big time. Never forgot it.I am only guessing, but I think I could have been dead from the same experience with a 3 to 5 horsepower machine. Been working in the shop since 1965, what do you say?
TT
In my opinion, the HP is not a factor in getting more or less hurt. I had a kickback from a shopsmith that could have killed me had the piece not turned sideways before exiting the saw and striking my chest (felt like a baseball bat). So I was lucky and I learned and have operated in a safe manner ever since (20+) years ago. I upgraded to the 3hp and have been satisfied completely with the results. The 5hp will give you more power for the thick stuff and if it fits your budget and your power ability not a problem. But limbs are cut just as easily and kickbacks are just as likely with any horespower if safety is not observed.
I think safety has more to do with remianing in tact in the shop than HP of any tool. These are just my rules I go by. Some have more or Some may have less some may not beleive in any of them but for me:
Never work tired (that led to my kickback episode)
Do not disable safety devices (Like Molly Hatchet said Flirt'n with disaster)
Use a splitter (best kickback preventer I've seen)
Use hold down's ,featherboards, or push sticks
Do not stand directly behind the blade. (I stand to the side a bit)
Watch for signs of stress wood (requires special care)
Never work tired (sorry thought it was worth mentioning twice)
And as I said before thats just my two cents worth.
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Hi Bones,
I have had a table saw since 1980 and got hit with kick back on a piece of pine - about a foot by six inches. Happened 3 years ago. WOOOOH that hurt. The saw is a 1.5 hp Craftsman.. here are the additional changes I made since then..........1. If the piece is "large" (I redefined that term down a lot) I use a straight edge and Electric rotary saw to cut first.
2. I use an electric jig saw more often to compliment point #1
3. I bought a re saw band saw and use this more often as there is no chance of kick back.Before I experienced kick back I went to the table saw first - for literally everything that I cut. i now use it about half the time.One other point I would make to readers.Don't make the mistake of thinking a 1.5 horse power table saw is underpowered to the point that you don't have to be worried or cant get hurt by kick back. You can, I was just "lucky" and I no loner trust my luck.
TT
Over the years I have gradually worked my way up from a couple of different Sears saws, a Delta contractor's saw, a Jet hybrid and finally to a Grizzly 3 hp. The Grizzly is a great saw! With the proper blade, I believe you will be thrilled with its performance. The blade adjustments (height and angle) are a vast improvement over the others I have owned.
I just wish I had purchased it several years ago!
Dan
Dan: I'm getting the G0690 next week. I would like to know which blade you upgraded to.Thanks for the info. I'm looking forward to my new saw.Jim
Jim,
I have one that I upgraded with the 5 HP motor and have had good luck with it. I have owned it for about 10 yrs.
I've had the 3hp Grizzly cabinet saw for 2-3 months now.
Trust me, you're not going to stall it!
Jason
James I have worked my way up from 1hsp to 3 then to 5 and I just love it. When cutting corian with a 3 piece build up, this saw purrs. It is a Jet 5 hsp single phase. I also cut 12/4 rock maple plus I only work with Hardwoods, so I have special blades. And I keep them sharp
Thanks for the feedback. I'm going with the 3 hp since unlike you my largest cuts are usually 8/4 or only slightly thicker. Hopefully I'm making the right decision. But as my other half says, "Once you buy it don't start saying you should have gotten something else because there won't be a something else." Ain't love grand.Thanks again, Jim
JasonI'm ordering the G0690 table saw next tuesday. I'm getting the smaller one due to lack of space. That extra two feet of extension on the 0691 doesn't sound like much but does take up quite a bit of space. Also the 0690 will be easier to move around. I originally thought about the Powermatic but a good portion of the price is going to a middleman dealer as well as shipping to the dealer and to me. I've heard good things about the Grizzly and at over $1,000 less I think it's a good choice. It sounds like you are enjoying yours so hopefully I won't have any regrets. If you don't like yours, please let me know before tuesday, May 19.Thanks, Jim
I have the 5hp 1023slx. I love the saw, and it never balks at anything I put trough it including hard maple.
I have the 5 hp Grizzly and it's been wonderful for me.. green maple used to be my major hurdle with my contractors saw.. A lot of time I would be sawing it and it would bind up the blade enough to burn the edge..
Not anymore..
It's also wonderfull when I ripped at an angle (say 45degrees) into really thick timbers. No way could I do a neat job of it with my contractor's saw. It was pass after pass and invariably the edge would wind up being a mess that required time on the jointer to straighten it back out.. Not anymore.. I recently ripped several 45 degree cuts in 10 foot long 4"x6" black walnut timbers and I made it in one pass!
Low horsepower table saws are fine if you never push your equipment and make little pieces all of the time with 1 inch thick or thinner wood. If on the other hand you intend to not limit your wood working the 5 hp can't hurt and might make a differance.
frenchy,
monday through friday i work with a 5hp tablesaw. on the weekends, in my home shop, it's my old g1023 3hp. the talk has been of kickback and power. i've been kicked WAY back by both saws, the pain and distress were very similar.
eef
Yeh Kick back is all about impact and momentum.. power doesn't enter into it..
The only place where 5 hp makes a differance is with tough work.. jobs that bog lesser horsepower motors down..
French;
Your saying...regarding kick back.........a 5 HP motor is less dangerous than a 1.5 Hp? I thought HP is like a bow and arrow - the more power the better chance of the wood passing right through you!!! Best,
TT
I presume the size of the arrow is what matters. Impaling yourself would be easier done with a smaller piece of wood. Either saw would suffice. A 2X4 tossed at you might break some ribs, but hopefully it wouldn't pierce you. It being a pounds per square inch issue. A nice shop apron with a chunk of corian in the chest pocket should protect your pumper.
I remember the hole in the wall 25 feet behind the table saw in high school shop class. The teacher refused to fix it. He'd point at the yellow hazard tape on the floor and say don't stand there when you are using the table saw. Then he'd point at the wall and say unless you want to look like that wall.
Kenshep:I got a chuckle from your reply "I presume the size of the arrow is what matters."
If someone could tell me the HP would not be an issue I think I would trade up. I got such a wack with kick back on a small table saw that I really got concerned, actually frightened of a larger machine.. To off set my situation I bought a 21" 3 HP, 220 vlt Grizley band saw. Which I love.But going back to that horse power thing I would trade up If I knew it was safe. Bad memories stick around...........TT
Kenshep,
Ya, I got hit and took steps for it not to happen again.
What I did was :
1. buy a 21" band saw, and started cutting stuff down, way down before it got to the table saw.2. any questions see point # 1Does it take longer to do what I need to do? No - not a bit , I just work differently. That kick back sucker hurt!TT
The amount of energy imparted to a piece of kicked-back piece of wood is limited by the velocity of the saw's blade, which is more or less the same for all saws, regardless of horsepower. The power of the saw will determine whether or not the saw can reach that velocity limit, but for most kickback situations, even a relatively low-powered saw has more than enough power.
Imagine cutting a sheet of styrofoam insulation. The saw may very well kick it back at you, but you won't be hurt, because the saw can only make it move so fast, and the fact that it weighs so little means that the amount of energy in the kicked-back piece is small.
The same is true for typical pieces of lumber; the saw can only give it so much energy.
The only time you'll see a difference is with a large, heavy piece of wood. A higher-powered saw might be able to kick it back, whereas a lower-powered saw would just stall out.
-Steve
"The amount of energy imparted to a piece of kicked-back piece of wood is limited by the velocity of the saw's blade"
You are so right! Key lesson from high school physics that I use often. F=MA
It's all inerta and leverage with regard to kick back.. the blades are traveling at the same speed no matter if it's 1 hp or 5
Where the horspower enters the equation is when under heavy loads..
Frenchy,
Thanks very much for that answer, it make total seance. Thats a point that FWW should cover.A 1.5, 3 and 5HP machine are all traveling at the same speed and the kick back would be the same. I always thought a 3HP machine would kick back twice as hard as a 1.5 HP machine......hmmmmm -now where did I put that Grizzly Catalog......TT
One caviot that I should have mentioned but didn't want to because of the confusion it might impart.
My 5 HP is a 12 inch blade rather than a 10 inch blade so the tip speed is faster even when the shaft is turning the same RPM.
I agree with the others. A blade is spinning at around 4000 rpm so a low powered saw can launch a small piece the same speed as a larger horse-power. The difference is mainly in larger pieces where the low horse-power might stall out.. the larger horse-power has more torque and will continue to spin. I have had 1 1/2 HP.. 3 HP and now have 5 HP. I just have to be aware on larger pieces of stock the saw isn't as prone to stall. The good news to me is the larger HP is not as prone to stall and is less effected in denser.. thicker.. squirrely grained or knots where a smaller saw might stall.
Sarge..
Sarge,
You and Frenchie opened my eyes. I held that belief of smaller Hp saws were safer saws until I read this thread. Never thought about the constant speed the blade turns and the possibility that a higher HP might actually be safer because it doesn't bog down. Thanks!TT
Your welcome TT... even though some other than Frenchy and I chimed the same basic idea across. I do believe I had had more kickback occur on a smaller HP than the 3 HP and 5 HP combined but I have only had the 5 HP for about 9 months...
Sarge..
Sarge,
What type of machine do you own?
TT
Steel City 5 HP... no riving knife as that is not important to me personally.
Sarge..
No riving knife? Because we know that you like to live dangerously!Just kidding of course. I think that it's your posts that have made me work safer. But my next saw (looking to be a grizzly slider) will definitely have an RK.
As you know.. I use a splitter and a host of other safety goodies so the riving knife is not necessarily my first priority. About the only thing it would afford me is the fact that the blade is closer to the knife when it is in the low position. But.. always using a shield over my blade.. I simply run it almost as high as it will go.
Even on non through cuts I made a very short splitter that sits 1/4" above the insert. Any cut shallower.. I cannot use it. I chose the saw I did because it is extremely well engineered and as robust as the SS original saw. It is also as tight in tolerances as that SS.. has cast iron tables that are as flat and ground to a mirror finish. Then top was not Blanchard ground leaving the swirly marks you see on most.
And it cost me $1800 but it really didn't cost me anything. I worked about 100 hours at the International WW Fair for Steel City helping assemble machines B-4 the show and during the show demo'ed machines for them. Take away $60 in parking and $60 in gas to get to the show for those 10 days and I got paid $16.80 an hour but I traded the entire 100 hours to take the saw home. Figure their true cost and I probably got paid around $12 and hour.
So.. if that saw came with a riving knife which it doesn't... I would have a riving knife which I did have on another saw before most knew what a riving knife was. RV's are a great design but alone not the holy grail of safety. Far more goes into safety than having a RV on a TS.
BTW.. that Grizzly slider you speak of is a pretty good saw IMO as I went over it at IWF last August...
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 6/5/2009 6:37 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/5/2009 6:38 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Though the choice has been made, I thought I'd chime in, in hopes it would be of some value to others trying to decide on their next toy, uh, I mean tool.
I’ve owned five saws over the years. Two of them Unisaws (the first a right tilt, the second, a left). I still have my second Unisaw, and have a Bosch for portable work. My first was a horse and a half Delta Contractor's saw (with a pretend fence, which was only a step or two above Craftsman's offerings).
Both Unisaws use a three horse and I've never been wanting for power. With the three horse units, I noted slower going, but that was just a day in the life and I've never had a stall.
I ran a five horse for about a year, working for someone else, and consider its as being necessary only because the saw ran a lot. However, even then, it was probably overkill, since we were cutting 2x's in 2x2's and paneling for truck campers. To give it credit due, it tossed boards through metal covered (nearly finished) campers and converted 4x8 sheets of paneling into kites at least once a month. My three horse could probably accomplish that, but not as efficiently.
Even my little Bosch hasn't stalled, but could, if I hated it and wanted to redesign the motor by means generating significant amounts of internal heat resultant of pushing it.
In many ways, I am more comfortable on my Unisaw than the Bosch. Among the reasons is the fence stability. The Unisaw's [Unifence] is less likely to move out of position and pinch the wood. Too, I added a removable splitter, an over arm [Excalibur] guard and I have feed wheels. These things significantly cut back on the possibility of kickback. Finally, I have nice big tables to feed into and through.
I’ve learned that tuning the blade and fence is well worth the time (I just have to do it more often on the smaller saw). Not only does that diminish pinching from an out of square fence, it, essentially reduces blade size (picture using a miniature dado to cut lumber or ply). Obviously, a sharp blade doesn’t require as much effort to get the job done. Neither does a [mostly] friction free table. As previously and repeatedly suggested, I work from the side, which has, repeatedly, proven a wise habit in light of how many times I’ve launched product (I often cut pieces as small as 1/8x1/8).
When you compare the quality of my Bosch to my cabinet saw, and frequent occasions when I purposely sacrificing push block aside, it’s no wonder the Bosch has eaten more push boards out of kick back situations than has the three horse Unisaw. Of course, as noted, I need only let the three horse wander significantly out of tolerance to change that.
Regardless of which saw I use, I use push blocks religiously (push sticks seem an exercise in total insanity to me), even when I could get away with pushing through by hand (I have back trouble - there’s a big yellow streak running up it). Sometimes I go through a couple or more a day, but they hold the wood down, push it through and keep my hands well away from the danger zone just fine. Obviously, cutting 1x8" strip make invaluable the use push blocks over push sticks.
Jim,
This past summer, I upgraded from my 1.5 HP Delta contractor's saw to the G0623X 5HP Griz Slider. I don't know which Griz you're looking at but this saw and it's new little brother the G0700 is built only as a 5HP machine. So I don't think the comment about the 5HP version being the same as the 3HP version applies to these machines.
I really like the extra power of the machine, it's clearly noticeable, and noticeably more fun when ripping thick stock like 2-3/4" thick cherry. One thing that I did notice though is that my Forrest WW2 seemed to burn wood more often. For the thicker stock I now use a 24T Systimatic ripping blade and cut 1/16th over and make a couple of passes on the jointer to smooth the edges.
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