The wee Colleen saw page 33 of the How to design furniture 2009 by FWW.
She liked the rounded, over sized finger joints, and started dropping hints.
Have any of you folks ever tried to make that type of joint? The finger joint seems straight forward. The rounding process and how proud?
Any and all comments are appreciated.
Replies
Not my work... picture 5 shows the goods.
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=47898.1
and www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Shoe,
The joint is straightforward - just finger joints with extended fingers.
How much to extend? The extension and the degree of rounding of its edges should be proportionate to the size of the fingers. Big fingers = more extension and greater radius of roundover. You want a pillowed look.
When I built some G&G drawers with finger joints they were 8 and 12mm in width in drawersides 10mm thick. The extension was around 2mm with a corresponding small roundover of the edges - just enough so that the roundover began immediately the finger emerged from its "housing".
Were you to make bigger fingers (eg at the corners of a chest-plinth) you would scale-up my drawer-sized finger extensions and roundover radii appropriately (i.e more of both).
To make the roundovers, I used a marking gauge to show the finger extension then rounded over the edges to the marks with a fine file followed by sandpaper, by eye. This tends to give a certain lack of uniformity, finger to finger; but I take this to be a good attribute (shows the hand of the maker) as long as the variations are not so large as to look like a cack-hand has bodged them.
When you glue them up, be careful not to get glue in the end grain. Unlike flush finger joints, you can't make the fingers over-long and then plane/scrape/sand them flush, thus automatically getting rid of any glue in the end grain that is pared off. The G&G fingers must start with the right extension and be rounded before you glue them up. It would ve very difficult to round-over still-square finger extensions, in situ, after glue-up.
Lataxe
Try Darrell Pearts’ book; ‘Green & Green, Design Elements for the Workshop’.
Well I picked up the book from the library at noon.
Darrell Pearts’ book; ‘Green & Green, Design Elements for the Workshop’.
4.00 pm done read it non stop except for the drive home. What a good way to burn away a grey cold day while fighting bronchitis.What a history and some serindipity spl. You can sure see the evolution of their work, and the Hall's seem less than suitably noted for there work. Perhaps 'Greene and Hall' should be more reflective of the style.
Darrell's idea's on design I play with, seeing how one's mind helps the design stand the test of time.One think I noticed was other's works influenced buy G&G. The works might be well exiquited but some are way over done, to much stuffed into one work. I would have a hard time living with some of those pieces.Anyway I have boggered and fettled the serving tray to the point of final sand and finish before assembly. I am stuck on how to finish the tray. Shellac would look nice but since serving Grog is going to happen. I tried BLO but it didn't give much color I was after.I am not a big stain guy, but red oak seems a little light to highlight the rounded edges.Thought about ebonizing the tray bottom?Thanks for the heads up on the book.
Shoe, cough, cough
Shoe,
That Darrell P book was inspiration to me too; and like you I found some of the G&G interpretations pictured at the end rather ..... not G&G, shall we say.
Mr Peart's stuff, however, is very attractive. He seems to have refined the style to introduce a certain lightness in its architecture without losing that G&G-ness. A pity, though, that he has become enamoured by that Krenov and so puts on the Krenov dowel-pull thangs, which step outside the G&G style somehow.
*****
Did you know that oil-based finishes casn be coloured with spirit-based dyes? Liberon, for example, sell such dyes in concentrated form so that you can make your own oil-dye. Just a little can add a subtle shade; the colours can also be mixed to your own unique requirement, although you need to ensure that enough is mixed up for the job, as its impossible to recreate the exact shade at a second mixing.
Meanwhile I hope you get over your disease quickly. Don't forget to hang a warning bell around your neck; and have a small boy run in front of you, as you go about, shouting, "Unclean"! Or is it just man-flu? :-)
Lataxe
Yesterday being the 40th anniversary of Montey Python's some one walked by "saying bring out your dead" But the wee Colleen was to ill to drag said body out of the house. Some ugly bug is roaring around. It was my reward for standing in a 5 foot mud hole, in the rain, tying rebar for a week. Work, Work Work, Gentlemen we must protect our phoney Balonie jobs ( Mel Brooks)Thank you for your finish ideas there is a lack of supply of any Liberion, transtint, etc around these parts. Mr Jones said he used tea for a stain and I may try a sample, now is it Orange Peako, Or Earl Grey? such choices?Your earlier advise about not getting glue on the end grain is leading me to pre-finish. I went to the local auto body shop and got some nice sandpaper for those end grain fingers. I contact cemented some of that non clog paper to some old t-shirt material and it works well for getting all those curvy bits.Hope to post pics soon!
Shoe , As the other dusty guy mentioned Darell Peart , google him and go to his website he shows the works in progress ,,how it is done as well , very attractive and a fun way to go . I like the dark square plugs .
dusty
I checked out his site. Nice work indeed.
I went to the library and have that book headed my way via inter library loan.Thanks all. Next thought in traditional A&C if a fumed finish is done what finish goes over?
Shoe Man , Glad you liked that site I do as well .
To my knowledge the fuming is part of the coloring process not top coats , so perhaps a conversion varnish or post catalyzed top coat or whatever you choose . I do believe you need a film finish over the fuming as opposed to an oil finish over fuming.
regards from Orygun dusty
As others have mentioned, Darrell's book is great. Darrell is a terrific guy and wonderful teacher. If you have a chance to take a class with him, don't hesitate.
Another good resource for information on G&G construction is Bob Lang's "Shop Drawings for Greene and Greene Furniture." You can get it from Bob's website - http://craftsmanplans.com/GreeneAndGreene.htm
There are numerous books about the Greenes' and looking at pictures of the furniture will really help you figure out the style.
As to dealing with the round over on the finger joint, I use the 1/8 rule I learned from Darrell. Each adjacent surface is 1/8" proud of its neighbor and rounded over by 1/8". Those 1/8" round over bits burn like crazy. For small surfaces, I prefer rounding over with a float and files -- it's easier than trying to balance a router and not burn your cut.
Having told you that I usually follow the 1/8 rule, I sometimes find that a bit prouder finger looks better. If you start looking around, you'll find that different makers use different sizes. Even the Greenes' work doesn't seem to be consistent. Ultimately, I think you have to experiment and see what looks best to your eye (and the wee Colleen's too).
I've seen some people round over every edge of the finger joint. I don't like the resulting look and don't round over those parts of the joint that fit tightly adjacent to another part. Hard to describe, but easy to see if you play with a couple of mock ups.
You're right that making the finger joint itself is pretty straightforward - just choose your favorite method and start cutting. If I'm making a bunch of joints all the same size, I usually make a router template. If I'm just making a couple, I hand cut them. Whatever you do, make some practice joints in scrap material. I found it really easy to mess up the first few I made.
Stew
Thank you for your reply. While waiting for Pearts book to arrive, I milled up a chunk of oak.I am going to make a serving tray as a first kick at the cat. I got the fingers cut and did a dry fit to mark out the edges to get rounded. Then looked at the magazine to see which surfaces got the round over treatment.Then all evening, a brain worm, router, files, which edge to start with, avoiding tear out, repeat x 3. Can't get to it till Sunday.I will check the link. In the meantime I got some vinegar and rusting nails cooking for ebonizing the pegs.
Shoe , A buddy of mine just did a G & G finger joint job and he used his dado blade on the TS to cut the notches , when you do the round over he said it wiped clean any chip or tearout .
dusty
Sounds like you're having fun. Trays make a great project for working out the joints.If you haven't done so, check out the "A Gentleman's Writing Desk" in the Knots gallery for an example of some beautifully done G&G work.Stew
FWIW - there is a group dedicated to G+G @ Yahoo - that is their only topic. There is a wide range of users, from beginners to the top-shelf furniture makers and house restorers in Pasadena. Seems like a very friendly group.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Greene-style-furniture/messages
The roundig proses and how proud wil be found in Darrel Peart's book
I found a video of a router technuece in you tube. David O Wade is responsable for this video. A very accurate and easy way of doing it.
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