Replies

1. 
   elmaduro | Nov 28, 2022 12:22am | #1

   I don't believe end-grain is affected by raised grain.

1. 
   stantheman | Nov 28, 2022 11:37am | #3

   Agree

2. 
   _mj_ | Nov 28, 2022 10:09am | #2

   I'll use a light brush of diluted glue on softwood glueups right before the glueup, not allowing it to set up before the clamps go on. I was taught that it is just to get something in there for the wood to suck in so the joint is not starved when the clamps go on. Hardwoods like maple I skip it, open pored like red oak or mahogany are case-by case.

   I have no studies to cite, but it's always worked for me.

1. 
   user-7089075 | Nov 29, 2022 12:04am | #5

   Just so I understand . You use ONLY diluted glue when putting mitered work together.

1. 
   _mj_ | Nov 29, 2022 06:21am | #6

   7089075, I use diluted glue to size the end grain, then full strength glue for glueup of the joint. The clamps are on before the size can dry.

3. 
   bilyo | Nov 28, 2022 12:33pm | #4

   Assuming the sizing pocess does nothing to roughen or interrupt the smoothness of the contact area of the joint, sizing might help a bit. However, if you are concerned about making the joint as strong as possible, the single best thing you can do with any miter or butt joint is to include splines or dowells to increase the glue surface area and add mechanical structure to the joint.

4. 
   dberk | Dec 06, 2022 11:32am | #7

   Might be a strange question, but ... I have always read that PVA glue does not stick well to itself. So, if a PVA joint fails you need to get back to bare wood before applying more PVA. I read it on the interweb so it must be true.

   So I can't help but wonder then how can "sizing" a joint possibly help? Isn't it (maybe in a small part because some/most of it soaks into the end grain), still conflicting advice because the approach basically involves using PVA to stick to PVA?

   I have never "sized" a joint so can speak to either side, just trying to sort out in my head which approach to follow.

1. 
   john_c2 | Dec 06, 2022 12:19pm | #8

   When sizing end grain, you aren't letting 8t dry. So it isn't the same as applying new glue to an old joint.

   Sizing is indeed allowing the end grain a minute or two to soak up some glue.

2. 
   stantheman | Dec 07, 2022 09:19am | #10

   The thing about not sticking to itself, is about trying to re-glue old joints where the new glue will not bond to the old dried glue. PVA has to adhere to wood, not to dried glue. Hence the guidance is to try and remove any old glue from the area to be re-glued. Some glues like epoxy will stick to old layers.

5. 
   jharveyb | Dec 06, 2022 07:44pm | #9

   What we are trying to avoid with sizing end grain is a joint where too much of the glue has wandered into the open end grain "tubes", leaving too little glue at the glue joint. If I want to glue end grain to end grain or other grain, I generally use epoxy, and I put it on the end grain first. Then after a few minutes, I add some more, and clamp it up. You can see that some has soaked into the end of the piece(s).

6. 
   dberk | Dec 08, 2022 01:09pm | #11

   so, re:epoxy. I make a lot of boxes with mitered (I guess technically beveled) joints, so maybe epoxy would be a stronger glue to use than hide glue?

   Not so funny story - my daughter asked me to make her a wine box for her wedding (at the last minute). I made it out of wenge with beveled joinery. I used hide glue. It was sitting on a table overnight waiting for the glue to cure (I was then going to add miter keys the next day to reinforce the joinery). I heard a large cracking sound, and went over to find the box had literally fallen apart into multiple pieces. I found out that hide glue does indeed stick to itself (I couldn't get the joints down to bare wood without screwing up the mitered joinery and making the box too small, and there was no time to start over). So, quick re-glue, add miter keys, add some glue blocks to inside corners, and off we went.