I’m a machinist by trade, and highly prized among guys (and gals) in my line of work are vintage Gerstner toolboxes, usually with 7 or 8 small drawers for holding mics, gages, setup blocks and the like, and a deep top compartment sized, I believe, for your copy of Machinery’s Handbook and maybe a small grinding vise and an angle plate. I was looking at one that belongs to my mentor in the trade and thouht that, while they’re really too pretty to actually drag into our grimy machine shop, I’d like to have one for the home shop I’m putting together. On closer inspection, however, I realized that, from a woodworking standpoint, these boxes are actually nothing special at all. The carcase and the drawers are all rabbet jointed (for crying out loud), and I also had the thought that while it might detract from the vintage “feel” of a wood toolbox, some bearing slides for the drawers would be appropriate given the weight they need to bear.
So I’ve set to work designing my own, with a dovetailed carcase and drawers, and my question is this: I’m a fan of exposed joinery, and on several projects in he past, like the sofa table I made for my mom, I’ve used through dovetails on the drawers instead of the traditional half blinds. But given that I definitely intend to use through doves on the carcase of this toolbox, do you guys think having them on the drawers as well would be “too much”, make the design too cluttered? I’m having a tough time picturing how it would look in my head, maybe I should stick to half blinds after all?
TIA,
John
Replies
John,
Did you see the article/video on Gerstner in Popular Woodworking a few issues back? Nicely done piece.
RE: dovetails. Half-blinds are a bit more trouble, but are what you would expect on the type of chest you are building.
Best!
-Jerry
My vintage Gerstner tool box has those locking-butt-rabbet joints on the drawer fronts. It has seen a lot of use from my father it's original owner and now me. The drawers aren't close to being loose. But since you want to cut a bunch of tiny dovetails, I'm going to say do the half-blind ones, at least for the drawer fronts. The appearance of the chest will be closer to the original and look less fussy.
Are you aware that the drawer bottoms are metal? This was done, I assume, to keep them thin and still strong.
I love the mirror on the inside of the lid. Is that to spruce oneself up at the end of the day, or to aid in the removal of a wayward metal shard in the eye?
Interesting sapwood, what I've read about Gerstners is that the joinery design improves the farther back in time you go. My mentor got his in the early seventies. He never mentioned though, whether he bought it new or used.
A joint like you describe could be a very viable alternative. I'm picturing a rabbet with kind of an L-shaped spline on the end of the drawer side to slide into a "keyway" in the corner of the rabbet on the drawer front. Is that about right? Pretty clever and simple, I could grind a form tool to cut that joint in about 5 minutes. thanks for the info.
Missed that article, Nazard. Maybe they've still got something on the website I could check out.
Thanks guys,
John
BTW sapwood, the mirror on the inside of the lid is so that, from a few feet away, it looks like you have twice as many tools as you really do. Also I was aware of the metal drawer bottoms, but unsure about the liner material. Looks like rabbit felt, I've heard guys swear up and down it's wool. I would think the lanolin in wool would play hell on metal tools, but I could be wrong. Maybe it all gets leached out at the textile mill.
John,
My father was a machinist, and he bought a Gerstner from a retiring workmate in the early 70's. This retiree spent 56 years in the shop, and had the Gerstner as long as anyone can remember.
My case has the large top compartment, small drawers down each side of a center dwr (for machinist books), and three full width dwrs at bottom. The dwrs have a rabbit and groove joint at the back, with a lock joint at the front. The dwrs use the "groove in the drawer" method. The ctr dwr is all metal except the front. The bottoms of all other dwrs are galvanized sheet metal, tacked at the back. I don't know how the bottoms are fastened on the sides/front (none of these dwrs racks or is in any way loose!). I received this case from my Dad in the mid 70's, and cleaned it up, varnished it, and put billiard table felt on the bottoms of all drawers. I do not remember what the dwr bottoms had for a liner.
On the back of each dwr is the # 469-x, x being the dwr position (although each dwr is a different height). The mirror was used by the owner at the end of his shift to comb his hair, the handle on the top is thick padded leather, like the old suitcases. Under the bottom dwr, stenciled on the case is Gerstner & Son, Dayton, Ohio. and the # 469. I believe they are still in business, and I may e-mail them and see if they can tell me when this was built.
Hope this helps, I can send further details if you need them. I am especially proud to own such a well crafted piece!
I just looked at Gerstner's website, and for $50 and send pics they will date my case. I can do pictures, but will pass on $50.
Pete
Edited 6/24/2008 9:52 pm ET by PCM
Are you certain about the galvanized sheet metal? I thought the drawer bottoms were nickel plated steel? But I am unsure from where I learned this.Greg
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I am not a metallurgist, but the bottoms appear to be galvanized, rather than nickel plated steel. The effect is the same, a very sturdy drawer!
Pete
I tried to get an older one at an auction a few years ago. It also had the sheet metal bottome. I'd guess they were tin plated steel, or possibly tern/lead plated steel. I didn't see the "spangle" typical of most galvanize sheet.
I think I got the idea that the bottoms were nickel plated because the hardware is. It doesn't make sense to nickel plate steel then cover it with felt.Greg
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Jquinn,
The spangle seen is a function of how the steel is processed.
The coil is unwound and run through a liquid zinc bath, then rises vertically for several stories. The amount of time, and the amount of heat applied during this rise will give different results in the surface finish. A quick dip with a couple story rise will give a quick cool to the zinc which allows it to form the crystalline patterns called spangle.
A slower, longer rise will give a dull gray finish; add heat during this time and you can get a coating called galvanneal, in which iron is drawn into the zinc. This is intended for use in projection and spot welding.
So, spangle is only one indication of zinc coating.
Mike
More than you wanted to know, I am sure. mh
yes - definitely more than I wanted to know. thanks for coil processing 101.
I am a metallurgist and have worked with a coil galvanizer (that's all they did it was boring), plus at a US mill that made terne coated sheet, galvalume, galvanize (hot dip), galvanneal, tried electro nickel, cold roll, hot roll, HSLA hot roll, plus current experience with titanium alloys. I'm not that familiar with hot dip tin, but I suppose it can have some spangle too, but I don't think as noticeable as standard hot dip galvanize - any tin I have seen has more luster than galv. terne can have a very small spangle too, but definitely looks different. basically I don't think these people were going to spend one more dime on these boxes than the had to for materials. for the small quantities they bought, they probably just went to the secondary sales people at Armco (when that's what it was) in Middletown, OH, not far from the Gerstner plant, and bought whatever secondary/written down coated sheets they had in the gauge they needed. I don't think they could have used a coil (at least in sizes the mills would want to sell) in five years.
I don't think Gerstner was going to spend extra monay on Galvanneal back in the 30's or 40's. Galvanneal is good for drawing quality parts, like gas tank halves, car body parts that have some forming, raised panel doors, etc - easier paint adhesion too I think. hot dip tin was probably more common and cheap back then.
the tool box I saw was a #52. Nice condition, no damage and nice looking quarter sawn panels. I stopped at $350 - the bidding at this auction was pretty aggressive, and the buyers had already bid up some other cabinets. Given the age of the owner, I'd guess it was 50's or maybe a little earlier vintage.
These drawers definitely have "spangle".
What did the one go for at the auction? I have seen some not very well made ones (I assume they are the newer versions) in real bad shape go for serious bucks at auctions and in antique shops.
Pete
Gerstner's shop is in Dayton OH - its sort of hard to get to without a GPS if you're not familiar with Dayton area.
Check their website, as they have a factory sale every year (just missed the one this year in mid-June) - if you can find a reason to be in Dayton its worth stopping for the sale. The have lots of scratch and dent boxes that can be had for a big discount. Many of the problems can be fixed with a little work. I bought a #92 chest in "golden" - white oak with decent quarter sawn wood for more than half-off the regular price. It had a cracked rail on the front panel door, and the locking hasp was broken. they say on their site all items sold as is, but all I did was ask about the hinge and the guy gave me another one in good working order. It also needed to lid adjusted (loosen hinges and reposition) - good as new fixed at the sale. I fixed the cracked rail on the front panel when I got home - cant even see the glue repair. All the exterior screws on the boxes made now use a security-type torx head.
They also sell some other things at the sale, besides the boxes they make. I bought several 12", 24", 36" and 48" stainless rules - very low price, some minor blemishes and probably because of that they had the names ground or marked out (the flexible steel meter long (inch/metric on opposite side) rules I bought were marked Bridge City. Soem USA made, and otehrs chinese. They also were selling some antique furniture, some guy was selling turned pens and walking sticks. I think there were some other wood/metal working tools (small items) too.
The USAF Museum near Dayton (at WPAFB) is a good excuse to go to the next Gerstner sale. Or a Red's baseball game - just stay away from the Skyline Chili dogs. I hesitate to call them chili dogs.
I wanted to get a base and riser this year to make a set, but I guess I will have to wait until next year. Timing of the sale wasn't good for me, especially with the price of fuel and I had a few other more pressing things to use my money on at the time, and I wasn't able to work out the drive to fit a work related trip, to take advantage of re-imbursible mileage.
Attached is my version of the Gerstner type tool box. I built mine more than a few years ago based on my memories of one I had seen at an antique show. I couldn't afford to buy one, but I sure could try to make one.
As you can see, I used exposed dovetails for the case, but went with half blinds for the drawers. (I'd never done half blind dovetails before this project, so I won't show you any closeups of those joints.) They have held together well through the years and through a cross country move. The drawer bottoms are some thin plywood I had laying about the shop, I put some of that drawer liner from Sears in the bottoms of each.
The real tricky part was the latch setup for the drop front. Some brass rod, brass washers, brass plate, and springs from ink pens coupled with some soldering made it all go together.
The drawer pulls came from an old library card file and cost me almost $20 from a salvage company. I think that was about the only actual cash I put into this project. Everything else was found in the shop.
Build your own, but don't over think it.
Good Luck
Neat toolbox.Troy
On closer inspection, however, I realized that, from a woodworking standpoint, these boxes are actually nothing special at all.
In a way.. until you try to make one where all the drawers fit well. As in, no dust or whatever gets in by the tools!
Old metal worker here. One of my Co-Workers was a old German with a VERY old BOX from Germany as you describe. I was very young. First job as I recall... I forgot to turn on the magnet that held the stock and started the surface grinder. The tool stock went flying into his tool box.. He just looked at me and said with his German accent.. You would be in much less trouble if you hit ME and not my tool box..
He forgave me BUT if I came into the area he would put his box on the floor and leave the room!
Never did much woodworking then. But I had some old tools my grandpa had.. He and I spent several weeks 'fixin' his box'.. He taught me ALOT about patience!
That old man was something... REALLY REALLY mad but worked with me to fix it.
He sent a letter to Germany for matching wood! And got it! Maybe a serial number? I have no idea..
All folks in the world should be as nice as he was! I shutter to think if he was a MEAN person!
WillGeorge,
My mentor in the Trade tells a similar story. He apprenticed under an old Polish toolmaker (I wonder if the government at one time had some kind of a recruitment program going on, I hear alot of guys tell stories about old German and eastern European toolmakers). He told me about the time when during his rookie year his apprenticemaster deigned to let him borrow a prized grinding vise for a mill setup. After building the setup, in which he had the vise sitting on 1-2-3 blocks under each end with a strap clamp over the middle (nothing supporting the vise under the clamp) he went and got the old guy who, upon seeing his precision vise being bent by that clamp, proceeded to turn bright red and began sputtering. According to my mentor, the guy got over it but never lent him another tool again. Thanks for posting, I like shop stories.
Thanks to all who posted, I got some great ideas and look forward to getting to work soon.
I hear alot of guys tell stories about old German and eastern European toolmakers..
Very long ago and I was just a young Whipper-Snapper.. So I may not get all the details correct. I do think he told me he came to the USA just before WWII and got in because of his metal working skills.
When the tool shop made the tools he would inspect them! He sent MANY back! However nobody griped about it.. THEY messed up and probably knew it!
Like my Grandfather.. Angry old cuss! But did his thing whatever anybody though about it...
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