I did not know what catagory this post went into, so I just stuck it here, and will assume Matt will move it to a proper location.
My wife decided that I had made enough things for others and has decided that she liked the Country hutch in fine woodworking. I have the issue and liked it, but the details were absent that I needed to make it from the Ariticle (I could reverse engineer, but what the heck). I decided to give it a try and buy the plans. I have bought many plans from other sites and was curious how FWW would stack up. Here is what my impression of my first plan from FWW.
Country Hutch Plan # 35
Cost delivered was 24.95 + 4.95 for shipping and handling for a total of 29.95usd.
The article is emailed with the order, but I can download that anytime. I ordered it on 7/18 at 1:30 PM CST. It arrived US Mail today.
My impressions of the packaging was not that good. It came in a plain brown envelope 8.5 x 11. It was bent and pretty ragged up. They should have padded the envelope with cardboard to protect it some (HINT) or rolled it and put it in a tube. It was bent up pretty good, but I can make do, not a killer, but could be nicer. Inside the plastic bag was two very large architectural size drawings. These are very nice with lots of detail and the print is large and easy to see. My only observation is the quality of the paper. It is not very heavy and should be a heavier bond quality. The content information is very good with every detail I will need to make the project. The cutlist is my biggest beef mainly because that was one of the biggest points for buying the project. There is a detail list of parts, but when I see cutlist advertised, I think like my application cutlist it shows the boards or sheetgoods with the parts listed to give you a visual of lumber needed. Most of my other plans are that way I have ordered from other sites. Again not a killer, but I did not epect to sit down and have to create the cutlist to determine lumber. So anyway that’s my impression. Will I buy other plans based on my first experience from FWW, I guess I’ll say it’s 50/50 right now. Hope someone from FWW pass this feedback to the group that handles plans.
.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Replies
bones,
Am I understanding that you wanted a picture of a board with the various parts arranged on it?
Ray
"bones,
Am I understanding that you wanted a picture of a board with the various parts arranged on it?
Ray"
Its just what I'm use to. In most plans I have acquired, or used, I have this feature. I also use cutlist (great software). It gives you a general idea of parts arranged on a board that gives a guestimate on what rough lumber will be required. I generally don't calculate down to the small square foot on how much I need, but use this as a base to get boards and always get an extra 25% or so to cover grain problems, or other unforeseen problems. I can get the same thing by using culist (great program), but I just thought that would be there. You know the old saying about assuming. I just factored my time into the cost of the plans. Again not a killer just a pain. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
bones,
Different strokes for different folks, as they used to say.
Here's an example of one of my typical cutlists, which I'll make for each project, after making the drawing :
#pcs name L x W x Th comments
2 ends 26 1/2 x 18 x 7/8 dovetail top & rails, rabbet for back, gain for
bearers
1 top 24 x 20 x 7/8 thru dovetail to ends, 1" overhang ft & bk
3 rls 23 1/4 x 2 x 7/8 1/2" dovetail both ends, mort for brers
etc
Now, as I'm pulling from the rack, or looking for stock at the lumberyard, I'll keep in mind the general sizes of the major components of my project and try to find a board that will yield say, an end in multiples of its width (say 6 1/2", 9 1/4" ) or a rail or multiple rails in its width (2 1/2" 4 3/4" 7 1/4"). Smaller components like moldings and feet can generally be gotten from offcuts after the major elements have been roughed out, and/or from the extra boards on hand "just in case".
I guess, after studying the cutlist, I have an ideal board for each component in my head, instead of on a piece of paper. Makes it easier to make adjustments, if that pictured board isn't available...
Ray
Ok, now imagine, if the drawing arranged common pieces together so that if you had lumber that was 6" wide by 4/4 thick by 60" long and arranged those to show how many would fit on a board (generally speaking) would that not be nice? I think me and you are getting at the same place just a different way. That step in your way where you said you have it pictured in your head is what I like to have on paper. Just a different ways of skinning the cat (no negative intentions to animals intended). If you ever want to see how that is done, donload the freebie version of cutlist plus and take a look at it. Take care.Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
This "cut plan" drawing made when the plans are drawn is such a bad way to lay out the parts. It makes it way to easy to ignore important things such as where the grain matches for panel glue ups, or the best way to choose drawer fronts or rails vs stiles so that the wood tells you from where the parts should be cut. Since no two boards or even sheets of plywood are identical just laying out the cuts before hand just isn't a good idea. Perhaps if your sole goal is to minimize waste, but compared to the time and effort involved in projects saving 15% on wood cost is usually not worth it.
Low-end manufacturing may need those savings to be competitive--and often have to compensate by grain and color obscuring finishes. Sensitive use of wood and finishes which enhance the natural wood character are ways that "amateur" furniture can often excell in quality all but fine gallery furniture made by pro's.
Hey Steve. I realize this all plays into the equation, but I like the visual (with my own alowances for overage), to help visualize the picture. Again, just a different way of doing things. I plan on spending my Saturday, putting the parts off the list on paper and build my own list(with a little help from cutlistplus). Take care. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Well, bones,
If that works for you, who am I to say otherwise?
It seems to me, though, that drawing components onto an imaginary board comes up short as soon as you pull a real one out of the rack. Do you reject anything that has a knot anywhere in it? Do your lumber suppliers only stock material with no sapwood?
The advantage to having the cutlist in my head, is that it's easier to reconfigure, when reality imposes itself on the ideal. You feel otherwise. But that's what makes horseraces and elections interesting, isn't it?
Regards,
Ray
You're sure different than me! I could care less about the quality of the paper, wrinkles in the plan, or the envelope it comes in. Heck, I'm not going to frame it! ;-)
I rarely use plans, but when I do, by the time I'm done with the piece, they're pretty well mucked up anyway from hangin' out in the shop with me, my tools, glue, etc. As for cut lists showing where to fit each piece on a piece of stock lumber, I have no use for them. Almost all of my work is done starting with random width & length rough sawn stock, so cutting diagrams are a waste. What is important to me is that the measurements shown on the drawing are accurate and there is sufficient detail to explain any out-of-the-ordinary joints, processes, etc. Sounds like the jury is still out on that part. Please let us know how the plan works out in those details when you make the piece.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
"You're sure different than me! I could care less about the quality of the paper, wrinkles in the plan, or the envelope it comes in. Heck, I'm not going to frame it! ;-)
I rarely use plans, but when I do, by the time I'm done with the piece, they're pretty well mucked up anyway from hangin' out in the shop with me, my tools, glue, etc. As for cut lists showing where to fit each piece on a piece of stock lumber, I have no use for them. Almost all of my work is done starting with random width & length rough sawn stock, so cutting diagrams are a waste. What is important to me is that the measurements shown on the drawing are accurate and there is sufficient detail to explain any out-of-the-ordinary joints, processes, etc. Sounds like the jury is still out on that part. Please let us know how the plan works out in those details when you make the piece.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA"
Hey Mike I always wished I could work like that, just come up with a unique design and follow it through with the build and everything, but that's just not my thing. I like working from plans. I do modify them to my liking, but I have never done one from scratch. When I spoke of the quality of paper and packaging, I was providing feedback to the folks at FWW on things they could possibly do to make it better. I mean, I would have had a better impression if the documents had arrived not mangled. I realize that stuff happens shipping anything, but a little thought in packaging helps. I like to take the plans I use and tack them up on my walls in the shop and I refer to them often and take them down and fold and put back up .etc. If the paper is lite weight, it will not stand up. I just noticed the beef of the paper was lite. I'll be extra careful with them and my wife suggested bringing me some foam board to mount them on. More important than the plans though is getting it done. The wife says I'm on the clock! Take care.
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Bones, I'm with you on the packaging. At that price, it should come protected and arrive neat and undamaged.
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