Replies

1. 
   oldhand | Dec 14, 2008 04:03am | #1

   If a piece on the top will fix the problem a thin wedge glued square jointed with titebond 3 might be better than whacking off a big chunk and possibly compromising the rail to stile connection. Well done it might last a very long time. Hard to diagnose without seeing it.

   . highest quality carpenter and custom woodworker in section 19
2. 
   donpapenburg | Dec 14, 2008 06:31am | #2

   Making a straight cut will look better than gluing a splinter to the top . That would be what the old owners would have done . If you could do a rabet to the door top and mate the ducthman to that it will give a stronger glue joint.  

1. 
   WillGeorge | Dec 14, 2008 07:47am | #4

   Making a straight cut will look better than gluing a splinter to the top

   I agree.. Square off the top of the door removing as little wood as possible and glue on a 'fitting strip of white oak. paint and behold your fix!

   Just my thought.. I made doors at one time in my long life.. Lost money doing it so I finally gave up!

   From the picture.... I would hardly think any structural damage to the door would be made from 'squaring' the top off and adding a filler strip that fit to the door frame..

    

   Edited 12/13/2008 11:58 pm by WillGeorge

3. 
   Taproot | Dec 14, 2008 07:03am | #3

   You're not crazy. I agree that I would not cut that much off the top of the door but would rather cut even at 5/8" or whatever is larger of the two gaps. Scabbing a piece on like that should be no problem.

   I've done this quite a few times and it has worked out well. The question that always arises is whether you pin the piece (with brads or pins, i.e. 23 gauge pin nailer) or you clamp it with long bar clamps. Since I'm on a job site and don't have the luxury of time, I usually pin it. But that requires you to get it as close as possible to the right thickness. Note that you can always belt sand it (rather than plane) for a good fit and whatever pins you will shave down fine. I've also taken to using the 2P10 glue (which uses an activator spray) for things like this because I get a quick glue up. But Titebond 3 would definitely be preferable.

   I really like the idea of the rabbet that one person mentioned. If you have the time, interest and skill, go for it.

   Use Minwax wood filler to smooth things out at the joint.

   For those woodworkers who are worried about cross grain expansion problems at the stiles of the door, I've not found this to be a problem as of yet, but it does concern me. For a fix like this, you don't have a lot of choice. If this fix is going to fail, that's where it's going to fail.

   One question I would want to know before I did all this is how much your head jamb is out of level, if at all? Not to add to your "to do" list, but visually if this is way off, then I think I'd consider fixing that first.

   Good luck!

   Tim

1. 
   RichClark | Dec 15, 2008 12:54am | #9

   The door frame is square now. The top right side (away from hinges) had that side settle further and further down as that failed Support rotted away. (they just sanded it down when the door wouldn't open).I already have a brass kick plate (very old) on the bottom of the door. And the threshold is level and I rather not get into that as it
   would be a lot of work because I cannot hope to find a replacement that is historically correct (Never Marry an Architect! ;))The issue is that the "header sagging" has been corrected and I am left with a door that was "whittled" down at that top edge.Im Leaning on the squaring up of the top method and gluing it up
   Ive got a lot of tightbond III (but in fact the door is covered by a porch now (Good thing about Marrying and Architect)Ive got the means to make a jig and run a rabbet on the top with a ladder and router I suppose? Ill remove it from the Doorway first
   and Ive got to get some more longer clamps (great excuse eh!).
   Then I can rehang it and just plane it to fit.This is a Florida house so ya see huge humidity swings. I'm more worried about selection of wood to contain movement when its done.
   I was gonna seal it with 1# cut of shellac and then repaint the door
   inside and out?Sound like the plan (with quarter sawed oak?)Rich

1. 
   zolton | Dec 15, 2008 05:53pm | #11

   Rich,

   I've done a few of these and if the work is performed carefully the repair will work just fine. There's really not any stress on the joint you're going to create, so other than wood movement (which will surely occur, and which you cannot control), it will hold up for decades.

   I'd remove the door from the opening, square up the top with a new cut and remove the wedge-shaped piece, then glue a new piece in place. The patch will have good long grain to long grain contact with the upper rail on the door, and that will be the primary fastening for the new material. The two stiles will present end grain to the long grain of the new piece, and that's where the bonding will break down. 

   However, if the new piece is glued secure to the rail, the patch won't break off. But you will see cracking paint where the stiles and new piece meet, as they expand and contract at different rates. That's why I wouldn't try to conceal the joint. I'd highlight it a little by either planing or sanding a little bevel at the top of the door and on the new piece. The result will be a little "V" groove running the width of the door.  

   Then, the repair will look like an intentional detail rather than a failed fix.

   Though I hesitate to say this on the Knots forum, as it will undoubtedly be considered the basest form of blasphemy, you won't need to purchase new, long clamps for this job. Just countersink some screws into the top of the repair piece and screw and glue it to the top of the door. You can remove the screws once the glue is dry, or leave them in place. If you do the latter, make sure you use brass or stainless steel.

   Finally, shellac wouldn't be a good choice to seal up the wood. Use a good quality oil based primer and then repaint the entire door with two coats of acrylic latex semi-gloss paint. The only thing you'll see of the repair is the neatly incised line between the patch and the top of the door. Not too bad a price to pay for salvaging what would be a hugely expensive door to replace...

   ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon

4. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Dec 14, 2008 02:21pm | #5

   Rich,

   Ye can't just shim the hinges?  Mebbe I'm wrong but you're only lookin for 3/8" adjustment, right?

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   RichClark | Dec 15, 2008 01:00am | #10

   The sides and bottom are all "tight" already Ive a trapezoid in a rectangular hole..

1. 
   doorboy | Dec 15, 2008 06:02pm | #12

   With all due respect, you'll always be sorry you glued on a piece at the top rail.
   If your frame is not square, then you need to cut the door to fit the frame, re-mortise the hinges to raise the door and add an ADJUSTABLE door bottom to close the gap at the floor. You'll end up with a better seal than you had before.
   You're not cutting off enough from the top to affect the structural integrity of the door.

5. 
   BG | Dec 14, 2008 02:44pm | #6

   RichClark,

   I think I'd try to maintain the rail and stile look with a repair. That may require lobbing off a larger piece and mortising/splicing/dadoing end grain to end grain for the stiles. However, the finished look may be more offensive than doing what others suggest, not sure.

   Would it be ridiculous to consider jacking the door up and adding a piece to the bottom and hiding it with a kick plate. That would mean resetting hinges and lock sets,etc.?

1. 
   JohnCujie | Dec 14, 2008 07:04pm | #8

   Having done a number of similar repairs I can say that no matter how perfectly you match the filler it will always show, particularly at the stiles. There is no invisible patch. The advise of squaring the top, raising the door, and patching the bottom is the best one I believe. The jamb patch is also an interesting idea and could be the easiest.On the other hand, it's Christmas and a new door would be nice.John

6. 
   UnclePablo | Dec 14, 2008 06:39pm | #7

   Rich,
   Another approach would be to square up the door like you intend but instead of adding back to the door add back to the jamb. The reason I would explore this fix is that the patch will eventually show on the door with movement. It is less likely to show as a patch on the jamb since all the grain orients the same way. The drawback is that you need to have enough left of the doorstop at the header to create a seal.

   Crooked is crooked in either case. I would just try to minimize having to re-visit the repair later.

   In both cases you would have the door off it's hinges so repair the jamb the same time you cut the door.

   Just a thought

   -Paul