Replies

1. 
   brownman | Mar 05, 2007 07:39am | #1

   Sasha,
   I feel your pain! I've had a panel glue bit for many years and have never been successful in getting it set up to work properly. I would have thought that it would have been easier to set up than the lock miter bit I recently purchased, but it wasn't. Like you, I've always had to rely on good old fashioned edge to edge gluing with or without biscuits. Perhaps our money would have been better spent on a matched tongue and groove set. And I'm doubting that there's few if any out there that have been successful in using these panel glue joint bits. Sorry I couldn't help, except maybe share to share in your frustration.

   PS: Thanks for the idea on getting rid of my glue joint bit! Danny

   
   

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   Edited 3/4/2007 11:42 pm ET by brownman

2. 
   philip | Mar 05, 2007 10:21am | #2

   Alan, I don't believe you are missing anything , but I don't understand why you have the need to register short panels like that via either biscuit joiner or that glue joint cutter.Here's my take on it:-
   1)Used free hand in a router-either with pilot bearing or without- too much all has to happen at once. The results are liable to be unreliable. The router is too light and the cutter needs to remove a lot of material in one pass.
   2)Used in a router table- slight improvement, but a long way from good.Table area is small, fences will be light, the whole not rigid, and most importantly, although a hold down can be rigged it is not a substitute for a feeder-which cannot be rigged on the average router table.
   3)That cutter is designed for a mass production set up, as in a factory, and the right machine to run a glue joint cutter is the shaper, which is rigid, has hefty fences, decent table area and can run a feeder which feeds and holds the board down- no deviation in either plane.
   In fact I believe that cutter has little application if any in the home woodworkers shop. Far better to use these fancy jointers plus some judicious hand planing and butt join, with the aid of some decent tee section sash clamps...
   I have one of those router ones-It was given to me-presumably the previous owner had little use for it.
   Some pics of three types I have for interest. The big one is for a shaper and is good if one has a lot of joining to do.The other three part one is for the small Delta shaper.The only one I have any time for is the big one, and I have have used it with good results without a feeder, but it is tiresome work.Philip Marcou

   
   

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   Edited 3/5/2007 2:26 am by philip

   
1. 
   sasha | Mar 09, 2007 12:36am | #10

   Phillip

   Thanks for the interesting pictures.  I agree with your assessment.  I did try and run this bit in a delta shaper with a feeder.  I have a buddy with a professional interior trim business.  While the results were a little better, the sapele's grain was a problem.  I could not get the feed rates slow enough to prevent the wild grain from chipping out.  From the responses I am reading, everyone has problems with this bit design, shich makes me feel a bit better, though one would expect better from Freud.

   Alan

1. 
   charlesm | Mar 09, 2007 03:44pm | #14

   Quote from sasha: "...though one would expect better from Freud."I appreciate that you have high expectations for Freud, I am just not sure where you feel that we have failed to meet them. Glue joint bits are not a new innovation and we have produced literally thousands of them with very positive feedback. If you have some insight as to specifically how the bit was ill suited to its task and how it could be improved I would be thankful for your input.
   Charles M

   Freud America, Inc.

3. 
   pmmatty | Mar 05, 2007 03:37pm | #3

   Sasha:  It's not just you.  I decided I wanted to try the glue joint bit to strengthen my panels.  Picked it up from Eagle America.  Tried it for the first time yesterday.  Piece of _____.  I will be calling Eagle today to return it.  Jusy not worth the trouble.

   PMM 

4. 
   pmmatty | Mar 05, 2007 03:45pm | #4

   Sasha:

   After posting my response a moment ago I reread your question and noticed that you were working with sapele.  I have a couple of questions, as I am contemplating a sapele hall table.  1. I want a nice ribbon stripe; I think that is quartersawn but not sure; so the question is how do I buy a nice ribbon stripe sapele on line: no suppliers close to me.  2. I need to put a real nice finish on the sapele table: do I need to fill the grain.  Your help would be appreciated.  Thanks.  PMM

1. 
   sasha | Mar 09, 2007 12:51am | #11

   PMM

   Almost all the wood I have is ribbon stripe  and its quarter sawn.  In my order, I specified which cuts I needed ribbon striping and where I could accept flat sawn boards.  Perhaps Steve would ship to you, he's in Hollywood ,SC.   But he usually deals in large orders.

   Tropical Hardwoods, LLC

   6417 Highway 162Hollywood, SC<!---->(843) 889-1600.<!---->

   <!---->I would think that filling the grain will kill the irridecsence of the wood.  <!----><!---->It wouldn't be something <!----><!---->I'd do without a test.  Steve recommends sand to at least p220 using Abralon abrasive <!----><!---->pads if available.  Apply 2 coats of tung oil - let dry between coats.  Sand with Abralon .<!----><!---->Final coat of tung oil.  Polish with felt pad in an orbital sander.   I am personally <!----><!---->concerned that even the little sanding I have done in assembly will fill the grain with <!----><!---->dust.  I plan to really clean my cabinets with tack cloth and spirits.<!---->

   <!---->Alan<!---->

   <!----><!----> 

1. 
   pmmatty | Mar 09, 2007 05:10am | #13

   thanks for the info about the sapele. alan.  appreciate it.  PMM

5. 
   charlesm | Mar 05, 2007 04:52pm | #5

   I am sorry to hear of your frustration with the glue joint bit. I wonder if your expectations were too high. These are designed to align the boards for gluing and produce more glue surface area - but not necessarily to produce "finished" panels. The amount of additional work required to finish the panel after gluing directly relates to the setup used. I recommend using as many feather boards as possible to ensure the stock feeds consistently past the bit.

   *Always disconnect power to the router before making any adjustments*

   Setting the bit height is not difficult. It requires making test cuts in scrap, cutting the test piece in half and assembling it to itself. Raise or lower the bit 1/2 of the amount of error. Fence setting is dependent on the type of fence you have but typically a straight edge along the outfeed fence can be used to align it with the smallest diameter of the bit. Test this setting by cutting about 6" along 2' board. Unplug the router and hold this piece against the infeed fence. Ensure that there is not a gap between the cut piece and the outfeed fence and correct as needed.

   Charles M

   Freud America, Inc.

6. 
   Routerman | Mar 06, 2007 05:44pm | #6

   Glue joint cutters have a lot of application besides edge to edge; they are pretty cool tools. I have designed a couple, see sample cut.

   Originally designed as time savers, they joint and profile in one shot. An offset table fence is required for this function. Edge to edge joints should consist of a 1/3-1/3-1/3 profile for the best of connections.

   1/3 of thickness above and below the joint (T&G, GJ, spline etc) should be straight shouldered.

   The garden variety glue joint cutters provide this relationship once the stock is ~7/8" thick. The garden variety door panel is 5/8" or less. As such there is not much straight section in the joint and when the panel is profiled the glue line is in your face.

   So I would not use the cutter on a door panel but I would use it on stock from ~ 7/8 to its practical limit.

   But how? I'd offset the fences and swipe the entire thickness of the stock, (jointing and profiling).

   Set the cutter so its notch & pin reside ~ on the thickness centerline and cut one side of the stock.

   Now assemble any 2 sticks. If they are offset from flush, measure the offset & divide by 2. Change the cutter height x that amount, test on scrap and move on.

   Routers

1. 
   brownman | Mar 06, 2007 08:16pm | #7

   Thanks Pat,
   Leave it to the true router pro to teach us how to use the glue joint bit. We were all so confused! I'm here in So. Cal. When is your next class? Sounds like I could still learn a lot! And thank you for developing such an awesome website with so much detailed router working knowledge.
   Danny

   Edited 3/6/2007 12:42 pm ET by brownman

1. 
   Routerman | Mar 06, 2007 08:46pm | #8

   Thank you for your support.

   Lessons: Most any time, one on one, at the pleasure of the student's calendar.

    

   Routs PRN

2. 
   sasha | Mar 09, 2007 01:06am | #12

   Routers.

   Describes my procedure exactly.  My experience was poor, however.  For instance, for those of us who don't have table top depth of cut adjustment with a micrometer gauge in the table, measuring the error and changing bit height by half the offset is really fussy.  I eventually got to where I was trying to raise the bit 1/32".  Not easy on most router tables.  Sure I could plane the difference out of the panel, if I had an extra wide planer.  But 15" is the max available to me.

   Thanks for your note though.  I guess there are no magic bullets with this bit.  Nice web site . - Alan

7. 
   colebearanimals | Mar 06, 2007 08:58pm | #9

   Hi sasha,

   Those bits ( cutters ) , in my opinion, aren't worth the trouble. I think you're on the right track though . You can even leave out the biscuits if you want. Modern glues are stronger than the wood. Plus, with the use of a glue joint bit, if you make a raised panel you will cut into that profile and leave some ugly lines. You didn't say if you had a jointer or not. If you do, straighten the edges, apply glue, and butt the joints. It's nothing fancy but works great.

   If you want to clean up those edges on your router table try using just a straight bit.If you mark the faces and run them through, then assemble them with alternating marks up and down, you will have a perfectly flat panel even if your setup isn't exact( at least in respect to 90 degrees ). If you want to grain match , lay them out the way you like,  and alternate your marks. Hope this helps

                                          Paul